What is a Mashiyach and who qualified?

[Retrobyter]

On 3/5/2023 at 11:36 AM, Montana Marv said:

Your "However" and "If" and "Then" and "could" makes what you have posted just another wild stab in the dark.  These are words that try to give a different meaning or approach to a subject matter.

Shalom, Montana Marv.

Sorry, I was away debating with The Barbarian for a while. 

No, I'm okay with ANY two 3.5-year halves! I was trying to give YOU a scenario you might accept, but ... hey! I'm good without it!

On 3/5/2023 at 11:36 AM, Montana Marv said:

There were no sentences in original manuscripts, this is true.

Well, that's just silly. OF COURSE there were sentences in the original manuscripts! Hebrew has sentences with subjects and verbs and often direct objects and even indirect objects, as well as other parts of speech!

On 3/5/2023 at 11:36 AM, Montana Marv said:

And Christ cannot perform them.  He was cut off at the end of of after the 69th Week, leaving the final One Seven (3 1/2 + 3 1/2) for a future date.  You can't get around your own mathematics.  3 1/2 + 3 1/2 does not equal or equate to (3 1/2 + 3 1/2).

Really? 3.5 + 3.5 doesn't equal (3.5 + 3.5)? When did you learn THAT in math?! If you were taught that goofiness, I'd like to have a word with your teacher!

On 3/5/2023 at 11:36 AM, Montana Marv said:

When reading this, Christ did not put an end to sacrifice, for they continued to 70AD. 

It's only a "sacrifice" if God accepts it; otherwise, it's just a slaughtering. But, Yeeshuwa` was the END of sacrifices for one's standing with God!

Hebrews 10:1-18 (KJV)

1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith,

"Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: 6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. 7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God." (Psalm 40:6-8)

8 Above when he said, "Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein"; which are offered by the law; 9 Then said he, "Lo, I come to do thy will, O God." He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. 15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

16 "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days," saith the Lord, "I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them"; (Jeremiah 31:33) 

17 And

"their sins and iniquities will I remember no more." (Jeremiah 31;34)

18 Now where remission of these is, THERE IS NO MORE OFFERING FOR SIN.

As soon as Yeeshuwa` died, the veil in the Temple was ripped in two from the top to the bottom! NO MORE SACRIFICES NEEDED!

The priests just didn't get the memo! They continued to offer INEFFECTUAL "sacrifices" to a God who was no longer requiring them!

On 3/5/2023 at 11:36 AM, Montana Marv said:

The Holy of Holies was opened up, yet sacrifice continued; for Israel continued to follow the Law. Even Saul asked for letters from the High Priest so he could go and persecute those of "The Way" - believers in Christ.  Things continued as status quo.  So no, Christ did not put and end to sacrifice for it will continue into His 1000 reign.  Zech 14:21 - Every pot in Jerusalem and Judea will be holy to the Lord Almighty, and all who come to sacrifice  will take some of the pots and cook in them.  So who is the one who will bring an end to sacrifice?  Not Christ.

In Christ

Montana Marv

I would suggest you make a study into Korbanot. Just Google it. There are many DIFFERENT kinds of sacrifices! Some were to atone for sins with God, but many were for other purposes. The ones in the Millennium will be for reasons OTHER than what Christ fulfilled! Some will be just to give meat to His cohaniym ("priests") and Levi'iym ("Levites")! After all, God LOVES a good barbecue!

[Montana Marv]

10 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Really? 3.5 + 3.5 doesn't equal (3.5 + 3.5)? When did you learn THAT in math?! If you were taught that goofiness, I'd like to have a word with your teacher!

What I said was that 3 1/2 + 3 1/2 does not equate to or equal (3 1/2 + 3 1/2).  The sum of 3 1/2 + 3 1/2 totals 7.  Yet (3 1/2 + 3 1/2) is 7.

I go by the premise  (3 1/2 + 3 1/2) is a One Seven, no separation of time, joined, thus giving Dan 9:27 a true definition of what a One Seven is.  You go by the premise of 3 1/2 + 3 1/2 which the sum totals 7 and can be separated by time, but is not a One Seven

Left side of your body and right side of your body.  They are One when joined.  They are two and not one if separation occurs.

Did you skip over basic mathematics (lower level calculus) and jump right into mathematical theory (advanced calculus and the like).

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Retrobyter]

21 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

What I said was that 3 1/2 + 3 1/2 does not equate to or equal (3 1/2 + 3 1/2).  The sum of 3 1/2 + 3 1/2 totals 7.  Yet (3 1/2 + 3 1/2) is 7.

I go by the premise  (3 1/2 + 3 1/2) is a One Seven, no separation of time, joined, thus giving Dan 9:27 a true definition of what a One Seven is.  You go by the premise of 3 1/2 + 3 1/2 which the sum totals 7 and can be separated by time, but is not a One Seven

Left side of your body and right side of your body.  They are One when joined.  They are two and not one if separation occurs.

Did you skip over basic mathematics (lower level calculus) and jump right into mathematical theory (advanced calculus and the like).

In Christ

Montana Marv

Shabbat shalom, Montana Marv.

It is the Shabbat - a day of REST, a day to spend time with YHWH God our Father, and with His Son, Yeeshuwa` the Messiah of God.

Let me show you these two verses back-to-back so you may see how they are related:

Daniel 9:27 (KJV)

27 And he [the Messiah of verse 26] shall confirm (strengthen; enforce [ironically, through submission to YHWH God the Father) the covenant with many for one week: and (or but) in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations (found in the majority of Matthew 23) HE SHALL MAKE IT DESOLATE, even until the consummation (the end), and that determined (all the bad things) shall be poured upon the [ones left] desolate.

Matthew 23:38 (KJV)

38 "Behold, YOUR HOUSE IS LEFT UNTO YOU DESOLATE!"

Now, look at 23:38 in context:

Matthew 23:29-39 (KJV)

29 "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, 30 And say,

"'If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.'

31 "Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. 32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. 33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? 34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: 35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. 36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. 37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 

38 "Behold, YOUR HOUSE IS LEFT UNTO YOU DESOLATE! 39 For I say unto you, YE SHALL NOT SEE ME HENCEFORTH, TILL YE SHALL SAY, 'BLESSED IS HE THAT COMETH IN THE NAME OF THE LORD!'"

Now, this last sentence is a quotation from Psalm 118:26. Look at that verse in its context, and remember all the places where these verses have been quoted in the Gospels:

Psalm 118:22-26 (KJV)

22 The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner.
23 This is the LORD'S doing; it is marvellous in our eyes.
24 This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.
25 Save now (Hebrew: הֹושִׁ֘יעָ֥ה נָּ֑א howshiy`aah naa' = Greek: Ὡσαννὰ Hoosanna = English: Hosanna or "Save-us now"), I beseech thee, O LORD: O LORD, I beseech thee, send now prosperity.
26 BLESSED BE HE THAT COMETH IN THE NAME OF THE LORD (Hebrew: בָּר֣וּךְ הַ֭בָּא בְּשֵׁ֣ם יְהוָ֑ה = "Baaruwkh habaa' bsheem YHWH" = "Welcome, Comer in-[the]-name/authority of-YHWH"): we have blessed you out of the house of the LORD.

I've pointed this out numerous times already, but the phrase "baaruwkh habaa' " is found in the plural, "baaruwkhiym habaa'iym," at all the airports and seaports in Israel. It is a "Wecome visitors!" sign:

Yeeshuwa` LEFT THEM, THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL IN JERUSALEM, DESOLATE until they can WELCOME HIM BACK IN YHWH GOD'S AUTHORITY AS GOD'S MAASHIYACH , GOD'S MESSIAH, GOD'S CHRISTOS, GOD'S CHRIST, GOD'S ANOINTED ONE, GOD'S CHOICE FOR ISRAEL'S KING! He IS "the Son of David," heir to the throne!

This is why we read the following:

Matthew 21:1-16 (KJV)

1 And when they drew nigh unto Jerusalem, and were come to Bethphage, unto the mount of Olives, then sent Jesus two disciples, 2 Saying unto them,

"Go into the village over against you, and straightway ye shall find an ass tied, and a colt with her: loose them, and bring them unto me. 3 And if any man say ought unto you, ye shall say, 'The Lord hath need of them'; and straightway he will send them."

4 All this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying,

5 "Tell ye the daughter of Sion, 'Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass.'"

6 And the disciples went, and did as Jesus commanded them, 7 And brought the ass, and the colt, and put on them their clothes, and they set him thereon. 8 And a very great multitude spread their garments in the way; others cut down branches from the trees, and strawed them in the way. 9 And the multitudes that went before, and that followed, cried, saying,

"Hosanna to the Son of David: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord; Hosanna in the highest!"

10 And when he was come into Jerusalem, all the city was moved, saying,

"Who is this?"

11 And the multitude said,

"This is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth of Galilee."

12 And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves, 13 And said unto them,

"It is written, 'My house shall be called the house of prayer'; but ye have made it a den of thieves!"

14 And the blind and the lame came to him in the temple; and he healed them. 15 And when the chief priests and scribes saw the wonderful things that he did, and the children crying in the temple, and saying,

"Hosanna to the Son of David!";

they were sore displeased, 16 And said unto him,

"Hearest thou what these say?!"

And Jesus saith unto them,

"Yea; have ye never read, 'Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings thou hast perfected praise'?" 

Why do you think I've spent so much effort on this topic? His "earthly ministry" WAS the first half of the 70th Week! And, it was HE, YEESHUWA` THE MESSIAH, "JESUS THE CHRIST," who SPLIT the Week in two! His MISSION was to offer the Kingdom to Israel, starting with His own tribe, the tribe of Judah, the JEWS. But, they rejected Him as their King; so, He rescinded the offer of the Kingdom to that generation, postponing it to His SECOND Coming, when He will once again offer the Kingdom to Israel! And, THIS TIME, they will GLADLY ACCEPT His offer, and He will begin His reign in Jerusalem!

When Yeeshuwa` started His offer of the Kingdom to Israel, particularly the Jews, we read this:

Matthew 16:21-28 (KJV)

21 Then Jesus went thence, and departed into the coasts of Tyre and Sidon. 22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying,

"Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil!"

23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying,

"Send her away; for she crieth after us!"

24 But he answered and said,

"I AM NOT SENT BUT UNTO THE LOST SHEEP OF THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL."

25 Then came she and worshipped (bowed prostrate before) him, saying,

"Lord, help me!"

26 But he answered and said,

"It is not meet (fitting; right) to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs!" (He called her a dog!)

27 And she said,

"Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table." (She acknowledged herself a dog, and acknowledged that HE was her master!)

28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her,

"O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt."

And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

 

He only came to "the lost sheep of the house of Israel." When He sent out His disciples, we read,

 

1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; 3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; 4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.

5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying,

"Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6 But GO RATHER TO THE LOST SHEEP OF THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL. 7 And as ye go, preach (herald as a town-crier), saying,

"'The kingdom of heaven (Greek: ἡ βασιλεία τῶν οὐρανῶν = hee basileia toon ouranoon = "the kingdom from-the skies")  is at hand!'

8 "Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give."

And, why would they perform such miracles? Because these are connected with the One who is to be the King of Israel! Yeeshuwa` stood in the synagogue in Nazareth and read from the prophet Yeeshayahuw (Isaiah):

Luke 4:16-21 (KJV)

16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. 17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

18 "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord (the year for accepting the Lord as King). 

20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. 21 And he began to say unto them,

"This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears." 

Mark even recorded,

Mark 1:14, 15 (KJV)

14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God (heralding the good news about God's Kingdom), 15 And saying,

"The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand (within reach): repent ye, and believe the gospel (good news)."

And, Matthew recorded,

Matthew 4:23-25 (KJV)

23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people. 24 And his fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatick, and those that had the palsy; and he healed them. 25 And there followed him great multitudes of people from Galilee, and fromDecapolis, and from Jerusalem, and from Judaea, and from beyond Jordan.

Indeed, His heralding of the good news about the Kingdom ALWAYS went hand-in-hand with the healing that God did through Him. God was endorsing and validating Yeeshuwa` as His Messiah with the power to heal!

[Montana Marv]

7 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shabbat shalom, Montana Marv.

It is the Shabbat - a day of REST, a day to spend time with YHWH God our Father, and with His Son, Yeeshuwa` the Messiah of God.

Let me show you these two verses back-to-back so you may see how they are related:

Daniel 9:27 (KJV)

27 And he [the Messiah of verse 26] shall confirm (strengthen; enforce [ironically, through submission to YHWH God the Father) the covenant with many for one week: and (or but) in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations (found in the majority of Matthew 23) HE SHALL MAKE IT DESOLATE, even until the consummation (the end), and that determined (all the bad things) shall be poured upon the [ones left] desolate.

Matthew 23:38 (KJV)

38 "Behold, YOUR HOUSE IS LEFT UNTO YOU DESOLATE!"

Now, look at 23:38 in context:

Matthew 23:29-39 (KJV)

29 "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, 30 And say,

"'If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.'

31 "Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. 32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. 33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? 34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: 35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. 36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. 37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 

38 "Behold, YOUR HOUSE IS LEFT UNTO YOU DESOLATE! 39 For I say unto you, YE SHALL NOT SEE ME HENCEFORTH, TILL YE SHALL SAY, 'BLESSED IS HE THAT COMETH IN THE NAME OF THE LORD!'"

Now, this last sentence is a quotation from Psalm 118:26. Look at that verse in its context, and remember all the places where these verses have been quoted in the Gospels:

Psalm 118:22-26 (KJV)

22 The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner.
23 This is the LORD'S doing; it is marvellous in our eyes.
24 This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.
25 Save now (Hebrew: הֹושִׁ֘יעָ֥ה נָּ֑א howshiy`aah naa' = Greek: Ὡσαννὰ Hoosanna = English: Hosanna or "Save-us now"), I beseech thee, O LORD: O LORD, I beseech thee, send now prosperity.
26 BLESSED BE HE THAT COMETH IN THE NAME OF THE LORD (Hebrew: בָּר֣וּךְ הַ֭בָּא בְּשֵׁ֣ם יְהוָ֑ה = "Baaruwkh habaa' bsheem YHWH" = "Welcome, Comer in-[the]-name/authority of-YHWH"): we have blessed you out of the house of the LORD.

I've pointed this out numerous times already, but the phrase "baaruwkh habaa' " is found in the plural, "baaruwkhiym habaa'iym," at all the airports and seaports in Israel. It is a "Wecome visitors!" sign:

Yeeshuwa` LEFT THEM, THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL IN JERUSALEM, DESOLATE until they can WELCOME HIM BACK IN YHWH GOD'S AUTHORITY AS GOD'S MAASHIYACH , GOD'S MESSIAH, GOD'S CHRISTOS, GOD'S CHRIST, GOD'S ANOINTED ONE, GOD'S CHOICE FOR ISRAEL'S KING! He IS "the Son of David," heir to the throne!

This is why we read the following:

Matthew 21:1-16 (KJV)

1 And when they drew nigh unto Jerusalem, and were come to Bethphage, unto the mount of Olives, then sent Jesus two disciples, 2 Saying unto them,

"Go into the village over against you, and straightway ye shall find an ass tied, and a colt with her: loose them, and bring them unto me. 3 And if any man say ought unto you, ye shall say, 'The Lord hath need of them'; and straightway he will send them."

4 All this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying,

5 "Tell ye the daughter of Sion, 'Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass.'"

6 And the disciples went, and did as Jesus commanded them, 7 And brought the ass, and the colt, and put on them their clothes, and they set him thereon. 8 And a very great multitude spread their garments in the way; others cut down branches from the trees, and strawed them in the way. 9 And the multitudes that went before, and that followed, cried, saying,

"Hosanna to the Son of David: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord; Hosanna in the highest!"

10 And when he was come into Jerusalem, all the city was moved, saying,

"Who is this?"

11 And the multitude said,

"This is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth of Galilee."

12 And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves, 13 And said unto them,

"It is written, 'My house shall be called the house of prayer'; but ye have made it a den of thieves!"

14 And the blind and the lame came to him in the temple; and he healed them. 15 And when the chief priests and scribes saw the wonderful things that he did, and the children crying in the temple, and saying,

"Hosanna to the Son of David!";

they were sore displeased, 16 And said unto him,

"Hearest thou what these say?!"

And Jesus saith unto them,

"Yea; have ye never read, 'Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings thou hast perfected praise'?" 

Why do you think I've spent so much effort on this topic? His "earthly ministry" WAS the first half of the 70th Week! And, it was HE, YEESHUWA` THE MESSIAH, "JESUS THE CHRIST," who SPLIT the Week in two! His MISSION was to offer the Kingdom to Israel, starting with His own tribe, the tribe of Judah, the JEWS. But, they rejected Him as their King; so, He rescinded the offer of the Kingdom to that generation, postponing it to His SECOND Coming, when He will once again offer the Kingdom to Israel! And, THIS TIME, they will GLADLY ACCEPT His offer, and He will begin His reign in Jerusalem!

When Yeeshuwa` started His offer of the Kingdom to Israel, particularly the Jews, we read this:

Matthew 16:21-28 (KJV)

21 Then Jesus went thence, and departed into the coasts of Tyre and Sidon. 22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying,

"Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil!"

23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying,

"Send her away; for she crieth after us!"

24 But he answered and said,

"I AM NOT SENT BUT UNTO THE LOST SHEEP OF THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL."

25 Then came she and worshipped (bowed prostrate before) him, saying,

"Lord, help me!"

26 But he answered and said,

"It is not meet (fitting; right) to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs!" (He called her a dog!)

27 And she said,

"Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table." (She acknowledged herself a dog, and acknowledged that HE was her master!)

28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her,

"O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt."

And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

 

He only came to "the lost sheep of the house of Israel." When He sent out His disciples, we read,

 

1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; 3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; 4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.

5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying,

"Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6 But GO RATHER TO THE LOST SHEEP OF THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL. 7 And as ye go, preach (herald as a town-crier), saying,

"'The kingdom of heaven (Greek: ἡ βασιλεία τῶν οὐρανῶν = hee basileia toon ouranoon = "the kingdom from-the skies")  is at hand!'

8 "Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give."

And, why would they perform such miracles? Because these are connected with the One who is to be the King of Israel! Yeeshuwa` stood in the synagogue in Nazareth and read from the prophet Yeeshayahuw (Isaiah):

Luke 4:16-21 (KJV)

16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. 17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

18 "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord (the year for accepting the Lord as King). 

20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. 21 And he began to say unto them,

"This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears." 

Mark even recorded,

Mark 1:14, 15 (KJV)

14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God (heralding the good news about God's Kingdom), 15 And saying,

"The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand (within reach): repent ye, and believe the gospel (good news)."

And, Matthew recorded,

Matthew 4:23-25 (KJV)

23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people. 24 And his fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatick, and those that had the palsy; and he healed them. 25 And there followed him great multitudes of people from Galilee, and fromDecapolis, and from Jerusalem, and from Judaea, and from beyond Jordan.

Indeed, His heralding of the good news about the Kingdom ALWAYS went hand-in-hand with the healing that God did through Him. God was endorsing and validating Yeeshuwa` as His Messiah with the power to heal!

A lot of Scripture, but nothing proved anything.

A look at Rev 13:5 - The beast...... exercised his authority for 42 months (3 1/2 years). 

And Rev 12:13,14 - When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to earth, he pursued the woman, who had given birth to the male child...... She fled into the desert, where she would be taken care of for a time, times, and half a time (42 months or 3 1/2 years). Which is the same time frame as Dan 12:1 - At that time Michael the great prince who protects your people will arise, there will be a time of distress such has not happened from the beginning of the nations until then.

Here are two 3 1/2 year periods joined.

And one remember that according to Rev 12:10 Satan has been in heaven accusing our Brothers before our God, day and night, before he was hurled down.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Desopixi Seilynam]

On 3/1/2023 at 10:31 PM, Retrobyter said:

and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 And he (the Messiah)

Who is the prince that shall come?   The Messiah?

So the people of the Messiah destroy the city and the sanctuary?

 

"the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary;
and the end thereof shall be with a flood,"

So the people are of a coming prince, or a prince to come. The prince that shall come.

The flood is spoken of in a more figurative way, but nevertheless specifically again, in Revelation 12:15-17,
which is also the end of the chapter 12 prophecy.

And then Revelation 13 speaks of, the prince that shall come.

 

If we continue on in Daniel with "he" as "the Messiah",

then what we get is; "for the overspreading of abominations the Messiah shall make it desolate,
even until the consummation, and that determined [fire Rev 19:20-21, Isaiah 30:30-31, Micah 5:2-5]
shall be poured upon the desolator" 

And so we are left with the question who is the desolator? And what is the consummation?
In that translation, the Messiah is making it desolate until some time.

But the wrath of God is one day of vengeance; Malachi 4:3-4, 2nd Thess 1:7-10, Revelation 19:20-21.

 

If we just go with the flow of the text, instead of letting the verse separations guide us,
and use Revelation to get more revelation on it, it's clearly meaning he, the prince that shall come.

Edited March 27, 2023 by Desopixi Seilynam

[truth7t7]

1 hour ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

Who is the prince that shall come?   The Messiah?

So the people of the Messiah destroy the city and the sanctuary?

 

"the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary;
and the end thereof shall be with a flood,"

The future prince Meshiach to come to the Jews will be (The Antichrist), in self proclaiming to be God Messiah returned

Sound The Alarm!

Many claim Jesus will literally return and rule "On This Earth" In A Millennium this being false in deception

Jesus warned his followers against this teaching, Jesus wont be found anywhere upon this earth as many claim

The Antichrist will be in Jerusalem, claiming to be Messiah Returned, "Beware"!

"Believe It Not" "Go Not Forth"

Matthew 24:23-27KJV

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before.

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Revelation 13:13-14KJV

13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Revelation 19:20KJV

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Edited March 27, 2023 by truth7t7

[Retrobyter]

On 3/25/2023 at 10:48 AM, Montana Marv said:

A lot of Scripture, but nothing proved anything.

A look at Rev 13:5 - The beast...... exercised his authority for 42 months (3 1/2 years). 

And Rev 12:13,14 - When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to earth, he pursued the woman, who had given birth to the male child...... She fled into the desert, where she would be taken care of for a time, times, and half a time (42 months or 3 1/2 years). Which is the same time frame as Dan 12:1 - At that time Michael the great prince who protects your people will arise, there will be a time of distress such has not happened from the beginning of the nations until then.

Here are two 3 1/2 year periods joined.

Shalom, Montana Marv.

No, sir. they are two periods, but they were not joined. Daniel 12:1 is talking about the TIME OF MESSIAH'S FIRST ADVENT, which follow the end of Daniel 11, talking about Herod the Great! And, Miykhaa'eel, whose name means "Who is like God?" and who is called הַשַּׂ֣ר הַגָּדֹ֗ול, hassar haggaadowl, "the-prince the-great," stands up to PROTECT Daniel's people THROUGHOUT the centuries to follow their desolation! Much time is bound in verse 1! It is the bridge that joins the people who were offered the Kingdom, to the Resurrection in 12:2, the time of the Messiah's SECOND COMING. It covers the "Time of Jacob's Trouble," also referred to as "the Church Age," by some.

On 3/25/2023 at 10:48 AM, Montana Marv said:

And one remember that according to Rev 12:10 Satan has been in heaven accusing our Brothers before our God, day and night, before he was hurled down.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Yes, haSatan can fly. That's what "being in heaven" or "being in the sky" means. He is the ORIGINAL SERPENT, the "serpent" or "snake" who tricked Chavah ("Eve") into eating the forbidden fruit. He was a FLYING serpent, as this verse proves. This is an AERIAL BATTLE that occurs in verse 7! Look at the words of this passage in the Greek: First, here's the passage in the King James Version.

Revelation 12:7-12 (KJV)

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven,

"Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time."

Here's the Greek of these verses (modified with some English punctuation):

7 Καὶ ἐγένετο πόλεμος ἐν τῷ οὐρανῷ· ὁ Μιχαὴλ καὶ οἱ ἄγγελοι αὐτοῦ ἐπολέμησαν κατὰ τοῦ δράκοντος· καὶ ὁ δράκων ἐπολέμησε καὶ οἱ ἄγγελοι αὐτοῦ, 8 καὶ οὐκ ἴσχυσαν, οὐτὲ τόπος εὑρέθη αὐτῶν ἔτι ἐν τῷ οὐρανῷ. 9 καὶ ἐβλήθη ὁ δράκων ὁ μέγας, ὁ ὄφις ὁ ἀρχαῖος, ὁ καλούμενος διάβολος καὶ ὁ Σατανᾶς, ὁ πλανῶν τὴν οἰκουμένην ὅλην· ἐβλήθη εἰς τὴν γῆν, καὶ οἱ ἄγγελοι αὐτοῦ μετ’ αὐτοῦ ἐβλήθησαν. 10 καὶ ἤκουσα φωνὴν μεγάλην λέγουσαν, ἐν τῷ οὐρανῷ,

"Ἄρτι ἐγένετο ἡ σωτηρία καὶ ἡ δύναμις καὶ ἡ βασιλεία τοῦ Θεοῦ ἡμῶν, καὶ ἡ ἐξουσία τοῦ Χριστοῦ αὐτοῦ· ὅτι κατἐβλήθη ὁ κατήγορος τῶν ἀδελφῶν ἡμῶν, ὁ κατηγορῶν αυτῶν ἐνώπιον τοῦ Θεοῦ ἡμῶν ἡμέρας καὶ νυκτός. 11 καὶ αὐτοὶ ἐνίκησαν αὐτὸν διὰ τὸ αἷμα τοῦ ἀρνίου καὶ διὰ τὸν λόγον τῆς μαρτυρίας αὐτῶν, καὶ οὐκ ἠγάπησαν τὴν ψυχὴν αὐτῶν ἄχρι θανάτου. 12 διὰ τοῦτο εὐφραίνεσθε, οἱ οὐρανοὶ καὶ οἱ ἐν αὐτοῖς σκηνοῦντες. οὐαὶ τοῖς κατοικοῦσι τὴν γῆν καὶ τὴν θάλασσαν, ὅτι κατέβη ὁ διάβολος πρὸς ὑμᾶς ἔχων θυμὸν μέγαν, εἰδὼς ὅτι ὀλίγον καιρὸν ἔχει."

Here's the same passage transliterated into English characters:

7 Kai egeneto polemos en too ouranoo; ho Michaeel kai hoi aggeloi autou epolemeesan kata tou drakontos; kai ho drakoon epolemeese kai hoi aggeloi autou, 8 kai ouk ischusan, oute topos heurethee autoon eti en too ouranoo. 9 Kai ebleethee ho drakoon ho megas, ho ofis archaios, ho kaloumenos diabolos kai ho Satanas, ho plavoon teen oikoumeneen holeen; ebleethee eis teen geen, kai hoi aggeloi autou met' autou ebleetheesan. 10 Kai eekousa fooneen megaleen legousan, en too ouranoo,

"Arti egeneto hee sooteeria kai hee dunamis kai hee basileia tou Theou heemoon, kai hee exousia tou Christou autou; hoti katebleethee ho kateegonos toon adelfoon heemoon, ho kateegoroon autoon enoopion tou Theou heemoon heemeras kai nuktos. 11 Kai autoi enikeesan auton dia to haima tou arniou kai dia ton logon tees marturias autoon, kai ouk eegapeesan teen psucheen autoon achri thanatou. 12 Dia touto eufrainesthe, hoi ouranoi kai hoi en autois skeenountes. Ouai toi katoikousi teen geen kai teen thalassan, hoti katebee ho diabolos pros humas echoon thumon megan, eidoos hoti oligon kairon echei."

And, here's the word-for-word translation into English:

7 And there-was war in the sky; the Michael and the messengers of-him waged-war upon the dragon; and the dragon waged-war and the messengers of him, 8 and not had-he-strength, nor a-place was-found for-them any-longer in the sky. 9 And was-thrown the-dragon the-great, the serpent original, the one-who is-called slanderer/devil and the Enemy/Satan, the-one deceiving the inhabited-world whole; thrown into the earth, and the messengers of-him with him were thrown-down. 10 And I-heard a-voice loud saying, in the sky,

"Now have-come the rescue and the power and the Kingdom of-the God of-us, and the authority of-the Messiah of-Him; because has-been-thrown-down the accuser of-the brothers of-us, the-one accusing them in-sight of-the God day and night. 11 And they have-overcome him through the blood of-the Lamb and through a-topic of-the witnesses of-them, and not they-have-loved the air-breathing-beings of-them even unto death. 12 Through this, rejoice O-skies and those in them camping. Woe to-the inhabitants-below on-the earth and in-the-sea, because has-come-down the slanderer for he has anger huge, knowing that a-short time he-has."

He HAS been in the sky, accusing us and our brothers and sisters before YHWH God, but Miykhaa'eel and his messengers will fight an aerial battle with him and his messengers, and he will be GROUNDED! His wings will be clipped! Once that happens (and it has not happened, yet), those on the ground and on the sea will be in greater trouble! He will know that his time has finally come, and he will be a DESPERATE villian, starting to be cornered!

Don't think that haSatan has not read the Bible and studied it for its prophecies concerning himself! He KNOWS what's coming, and has been trying to change it even before the Messiah arrived the first time! But, no matter what he tries, he CONTRIBUTES to his own end! How frustrating would THAT be?!

[truth7t7]

9 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Daniel 12:1 is talking about the TIME OF MESSIAH'S FIRST ADVENT

"False"

It's talking about the future great tribulation and time of final judgement, when the book of life is opened

Daniel 12:1-2KJV

1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

[Montana Marv]

Roy,

So, what is the next major sign before this last 3 1/2 year period.  It must be the arrival of the Two Witnesses 4 days or more before this last period of time then.  I guess one will wait and see.  And some will say that the 2nd Coming will be right around the corner, and everyone will know.

What's this. Been going on now for 15 - 16 years now with us.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Retrobyter]

53 minutes ago, truth7t7 said:

"False"

It's talking about the future great tribulation and time of final judgement, when the book of life is opened

Daniel 12:1-2KJV

1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Shalom, truth7t7.

Oops! You don't READ what you wrote (or copied)!  That "time of trouble," or "עֵ֣ת צָרָ֔ה" "`eets tsaaraah," in Hebrew, is a TWO-THOUSAND-YEAR (SO FAR) time of trouble! It's the SAME TROUBLE that Jeremiah wrote about in Jeremiah 30:7, "that day is great (HUGE, LONG), so that none is like it!" The words are even the same!

Jeremiah 30:1-24 (KJV)

1 The word that came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying, 

2 "Thus speaketh the LORD God of Israel, saying,

"'Write thee all the words that I have spoken unto thee in a book. 3 For, lo, the days come,' saith the LORD, 'that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah,' saith the LORD: 'and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it.'"

4 And these are the words that the LORD spake concerning Israel and concerning Judah. 5 For thus saith the LORD;

"We have heard a voice of trembling, of fear, and not of peace. 6 Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness? 7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.

The Hebrew of verse 7 is ...

הֹ֗וי כִּ֥י גָדֹ֛ול הַיֹּ֥ום הַה֖וּא מֵאַ֣יִן כָּמֹ֑הוּ וְעֵֽת־צָרָ֥ה הִיא֙ לְיַֽעֲקֹ֔ב וּמִמֶּ֖נָּה יִוָּשֵֽׁעַ׃

Here is the transliteration ...

7 Howy kiy gaadowl hayyowm hahuw' mee'ayin kaamohuw v`eet-tsaaraah l-Ya`aqoV uwmiymmennaah yivvaasheea`:

and the translation word-for-word ...

7 "'Alas! for great [is]-the-day the-one so-that-none-[is] like-it and-time-of-trouble to-Jacob and-out-of-it he-shall-be-rescued:'"

8 "'For it shall come to pass in that day,' saith the LORD of hosts, 'that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him: 9 But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them. 10 Therefore fear thou not, O my servant Jacob,' saith the LORD; 'neither be dismayed, O Israel: for, lo, I will save thee from afar, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and shall be in rest, and be quiet, and none shall make him afraid. 11 For I am with thee,' saith the LORD, 'to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet will I not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished.'

12 "For thus saith the LORD, 'Thy bruise is incurable, and thy wound is grievous. 13 There is none to plead thy cause, that thou mayest be bound up: thou hast no healing medicines. 14 All thy lovers have forgotten thee; they seek thee not; for I have wounded thee with the wound of an enemy, with the chastisement of a cruel one, for the multitude of thine iniquity; because thy sins were increased. 15 Why criest thou for thine affliction? thy sorrow is incurable for the multitude of thine iniquity: because thy sins were increased, I have done these things unto thee. 16 Therefore all they that devour thee shall be devoured; and all thine adversaries, every one of them, shall go into captivity; and they that spoil thee shall be a spoil, and all that prey upon thee will I give for a prey. 17 For I will restore health unto thee, and I will heal thee of thy wounds,' saith the LORD; because they called thee an "Outcast," saying, "This is Zion, whom no man seeketh after."'

18 "Thus saith the LORD; 'Behold, I will bring again the captivity of Jacob's tents, and have mercy on his dwellingplaces; and the city shall be builded upon her own heap, and the palace shall remain after the manner thereof. 19 And out of them shall proceed thanksgiving and the voice of them that make merry: and I will multiply them, and they shall not be few; I will also glorify them, and they shall not be small. 20 Their children also shall be as aforetime, and their congregation shall be established before me, and I will punish all that oppress them. 21 And their nobles shall be of themselves, and their governor shall proceed from the midst of them; and I will cause him to draw near, and he shall approach unto me: for who is this that engaged his heart to approach unto me?' saith the LORD. 22 'And ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.' 

23 "Behold, the whirlwind of the LORD goeth forth with fury, a continuing whirlwind: it shall fall with pain upon the head of the wicked. 24 The fierce anger of the LORD shall not return, until he have done it, and until he have performed the intents of his heart: in the latter days ye shall consider it."

Daniel 11: is a record of the messenger described in Daniel 10:5 as "a certain man clothed in linen" talking about all the history from Daniel's time up until the Messiah comes in His First Advent. The last verses are about Herod the Great:

Daniel 11:44-45 (KJV)

44 "But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him (the Wise Men from the east who come from the north around the Fertile Crescent): therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many (the killing of the babies in and around Bethlehem). 45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas (the Dead Sea and the Mediterranean Sea) in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him."

"His palace at Herodium, 12 km south of Jerusalem, rose to a height of about 45 meters. He also built palace-fortresses in Jerusalem, Masada, and Caesarea Maritima." - See Wikipedia's article on Herodian architecture. 

Herod Antipas was residing at the palace in Jerusalem when Yeeshuwa` was being tried about to be crucified. Pilate, at one point, sent Yeeshuwa` to Herod, who then sent Him back to Pontius Pilate.

Luke 23:1-12 (KJV)

1 And the whole multitude of them arose, and led him unto Pilate. 2And they began to accuse him, saying,

"We found this fellow perverting the nation, and forbidding to give tribute to Caesar, saying that he himself is Christ a King."

3 And Pilate asked him, saying,

"Art thou the King of the Jews?"

And he answered him and said,

"Thou sayest it." 

4 Then said Pilate to the chief priests and to the people,

"I find no fault in this man."

5 And they were the more fierce, saying,

"He stirreth up the people, teaching throughout all Jewry, beginning from Galilee to this place!"

6 When Pilate heard of Galilee, he asked whether the man were a Galilaean. 7 And as soon as he knew that he belonged unto Herod's jurisdiction, he sent him to Herod, who himself also was at Jerusalem at that time. 8 And when Herod saw Jesus, he was exceeding glad: for he was desirous to see him of a long season, because he had heard many things of him; and he hoped to have seen some miracle done by him. 9 Then he questioned with him in many words; but he answered him nothing. 10 And the chief priests and scribes stood and vehemently accused him. 11 And Herod with his men of war set him at nought, and mocked him, and arrayed him in a gorgeous robe, and sent him again to Pilate. 12 And the same day Pilate and Herod were made friends together: for before they were at enmity between themselves.

It's WRONG to see ANYTHING about our future in any of Daniel 11! And, there's a REASON why Miykhaa`eel stands up to protect God's people in 12:1: They are about to go into desolation!