The Letter to the Church in Philadelphia - AWESOME!

[Vine Abider]

17 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

`And the nations of those who are saved shall walk in its light,.....` (Rev. 21: 24)

As the earth revolves every part would come into the New Jerusalem`s light.

Also, it says - `Then I, John saw the holy city coming down out of heaven from God...` (Rev. 21: 2)

We know from God`s word that there are three areas of the `heavens ` - the angelic realm with God`s throne, (third heaven) the Univeral realm, and the atmospheric area above the earth.

We also know that the NJ was in the third heaven waiting for the NHNE time. 

`you have come to Mount Zion, (heavenly) and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem.....to ...angels....to God...`(Heb. 12: 22 & 23)

Then we are told that the NJ comes down, but it doesn`t say to the earth. It comes to the lower heavens, the universal area.

Then I, John saw the holy city coming down out of heaven from God...` (Rev. 21: 2)

This area is called the Principalities and Powers area which God made. (Col. 1: 16) It was here that Lucifer usurped control. (Eph. 6: 12)

Remember also that the Old Testament saints looked for the New Jerusalem, (Heb. 11: 16) and God`s word tells us that city is in the heavens.

`These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them, embraced them and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth, For those who say such things declare plainly that they seek a homeland. And truly if they had called to mind that country from which they had come out, they would have had opportunity to return.

But now they desire a better, that is, a HEAVENLY country. Therefore, God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a CITY for them. ` (Heb. 11: 13 - 16)

Every area of God`s great kingdom will have designated rulership under the Lord Jesus Christ. 

Thanks!  And as I read the end of Revelation this morning I was looking regarding this matter - that the NJ may not actually be on the earth.  It is interesting in that I haven't found specifically anywhere in scripture it indicates it is on the ground.  However, I don't think there is any specifically saying it will hover in mid-heaven.  Velly interesting . . . 

Back on topic!

So what about the promise to Philly to keep them from the hour of trial coming on the whole inhabited earth?  I assume this to be at the beginning the Great Trib, that is, in the middle of the final 7 years.  Are these guys taken up specifically before or apart from the rapture of other believers? 

[coheir]

On 1/21/2023 at 6:32 PM, Marilyn C said:

Yes, that is correct - ruling from the third heaven. Glad you brought that up as it is the final truth to be clarified that the early believers were taught. It is only this generation that is being fed the false teaching of us being on the New Earth. Now I`ll just do a section at a time to give you opportunity to respond. 

The New Earth.

I agree that God gave Adam and Eve dominion over the earth. That was & is God`s plan still. Then we see that there are nations on the New Earth. (Rev. 21: 24)

`And the nations of those who are saved shall walk in its light.` (Rev. 21: 24)

Note they are called `nations.` We, are the Body of Christ, the ekklesia, called OUT of the nations. We are a holy nation, (singular) a royal priesthood,

`But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people...` (1 Peter 2: 9)

Also see that the nations on the New Earth walk in the light of the New Jerusalem. Thus, as the earth turns each part receives the light of the NJ which is situated in the lower heavens, (the universal heavens).  

Also see that the nations on the New Earth walk in the light of the New Jerusalem. Thus, as the earth turns each part receives the light of the NJ which is situated in the lower heavens, (the universal heavens).

 

Hi Marilyn C

I have been learning a lot following this thread, thanks to several including you.I am puzzled by the last sentence in this post. And my question  may be out of line for this thread. Verse 25 leads me to think earth will have night and day (sleep) but the ones above in NJ will not have night or sleep.

Edited January 25, 2023 by coheir
addition

[Marilyn C]

2 hours ago, coheir said:

Hi Marilyn C

I have been learning a lot following this thread, thanks to several including you.I am puzzled by the last sentence in this post. And my question  may be out of line for this thread. Verse 25 leads me to think earth will have night and day (sleep) but the ones above in NJ will not have night or sleep.

Hi coheir,

Glad you are learning more from God`s word as I pray we all are.  And your question is very pertinent to the topic sideline. 

So, in the New Jerusalem we are told -

`And the city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine in it, for the glory of God illuminated it, and the Lamb its light......its gates shall not be shut there at all by day (there shall be no night there).  ` (Rev. 21: 23 & 25)

Good find there regarding `no night.` Now this city the New Jerusalem was made in the highest heaven by God so it is not an earthly building.

`he (Abraham) waited for the city which had foundations, whose builder and maker is God.` (Heb. 11: 10)

And we see this city, the NJ in the general Assembly waiting for the NHNE time.

`you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the General Assembly...`  (Heb. 12: 22)

Then we know that in the NHNE that this city comes down from that highest heaven to the lower heavens, the universal area. We know this for the Old Testament saints -

`confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth....` (Heb. 11: 13)

and they looked for a heavenly country. 

`they desired a better, that is, a heavenly country.`  (Heb. 11: 16)

So, this city is made by God in the highest heaven and comes down to give the light to the peoples of the nations on the earth. And that light is the very life, character, and wisdom of the Lamb. It is His righteous rulership over the earth. 

And those who are in the city have been waiting also in the General Assembly.

`...to the General Assembly....to God, the judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect.` (Heb. 12: 23) 

These are the OT saints, (men and women) who believed God for the inheritance of the city. They are called `just men,` (& women) or righteous men. They are the rulership in the NJ under the Lord and as they are from heaven they will have amazing bodies that will be suited for that realm they live in.

Thus, I believe they will not need to sleep. They will be serving the kings who come from all corners of the earth, (as it revolves) to bring their honour and glory into it and receive the Lord`s wisdom and righteous rulership.

`and the kings of the earth shall bring their glory and honour into it. `(Rev. 21: 24)

The New Jerusalem is actually the connecting of the spiritual, (heavenly) and the physical realms. It is God dwelling, (tabernacling) with His people in the NJ and on the earth.  

Very interesting topic indeed.

 

 

[Marilyn C]

13 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

Thanks!  And as I read the end of Revelation this morning I was looking regarding this matter - that the NJ may not actually be on the earth.  It is interesting in that I haven't found specifically anywhere in scripture it indicates it is on the ground.  However, I don't think there is any specifically saying it will hover in mid-heaven.  Velly interesting . . . 

 

Hi VA,

No it doesn`t hover as we know that everything `hangs on nothing.` (Job 26: 7) (couldn`t resist that scripture). And of course every planet and star etc all revolve as they revolve on their great path through space. C.J. Rolls said that he heard our solar system takes a thousand years to do a circuit of the Milky way. 

Since God is the Creator I`m looking forward to seeing what He has planned in His great expanse of the Universe and being a part of serving there and beyond.

Now the OT saints confessed they were pilgrims on the earth and looked for the heavenly city. (Heb. 11: 13 - 16) Thus, the NJ is in the lower heavens. It is the rulership from heaven over the earth. (I`ve written a bit on that above to coheir). 

So, we ask "When do the OT saints get to go to the New Jerusalem."

Well, we see these OT saints, the `just men,` (& women) in the General assembly with the NJ waiting. (Heb. 12: 22 & 23)  Then we are told that the city, the NJ comes down in the NHNE time. (Rev. 21: 2) So, the OT saints will have to wait to after the millennium.

 

[Marilyn C]

15 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

 

Back on topic!

So what about the promise to Philly to keep them from the hour of trial coming on the whole inhabited earth?  I assume this to be at the beginning the Great Trib, that is, in the middle of the final 7 years.  Are these guys taken up specifically before or apart from the rapture of other believers? 

Hi VA,

Yes, the Body of Christ when matured will be gathered together and taken to the third heaven where we will see the visible enthronement of the Lord on His own throne, as Kingpriest. (Rev. 3: 21,  4: 1 - 4)

This will be the start of the restoration of rulership from the third heaven and then over the tribulation and millennium all rulership will come under the Lord Jesus Christ. (Acts 3: 20 & 21)

Remember that Job says, `The heavens are not pure in His sight.` (Job: 15: 15) there is more than just the rulership on the earth to be restored.

[Vine Abider]

8 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi VA,

Yes, the Body of Christ when matured will be gathered together and taken to the third heaven where we will see the visible enthronement of the Lord on His own throne, as Kingpriest. (Rev. 3: 21,  4: 1 - 4)

This will be the start of the restoration of rulership from the third heaven and then over the tribulation and millennium all rulership will come under the Lord Jesus Christ. (Acts 3: 20 & 21)

Remember that Job says, `The heavens are not pure in His sight.` (Job: 15: 15) there is more than just the rulership on the earth to be restored.

I see the promise made to Philly as conditional, and not necessarily to everyone: "Because you have kept My command to persevere, I will also keep you from the hour of testing that is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth." Rev 3:10

Will all Christians keep that command?

[AdHoc]

@Vine Abider @Marilyn C @Dennis1209 @coheir

May I return to New Jerusalem. I will be brief. There is one undeniable proof that New Jerusalem is on New Earth. That is, the Nations may go in and out (Rev.21:24-26). If New Jerusalem is in any part of heaven, then it follows that the Nations went to heaven.

The New Jerusalem has caused much discussion among Bible scholars. Many well schooled and well trained scholars have attempted to make it a literal City. This works some of the way, but soon the exegesis sinks into absurdity. Revelation 1:1 warns us that what the Lord is about to show is shown in "signs". And if this approach is taken, and one is strict about interpreting scripture with scripture, New Jerusalem, with so few words, shows us a detailed consummation of God's plan and heart's desire.

The City is a Woman is a Tabernacle from heaven but comes down to earth. Its number is 144,000 indicating a composite of two peoples of God, 12 Apostles and 12 Tribes. Besides the above signs, it is foursquare - the shape of the Holy of Holies. It is made with men who have the measure of an angel - resurrection (Lk.20:36). Its materials are found in Eden, Gold,  Pearl (the animal version of Bdelllium) and Precious Stones. It has the River of Life and the Tree of Life. All unholy things are kept out by the great and high walls - the Church and the Gates  (Israel) serve God in that they allow only undefiled things in for audience. The Nations are outside, but seeking to visit. Those in the Lake of Fire may not enter, while the rest, not possessing eternal life, must be sustained by the LEAVES of the Tree of Life.

It has God's image and likeness, His light and life, and His GLORY.It is the Bride of Christ. Everything that God planned to do is PICTURED in this City. God's dsire was not to make more creatures in heaven, but "to fill and replenish the earth". God has angels for heaven, but Jesus is a MAN and was made for the EARTH. His body is made of the elements of the earth, his diet is of the earth, He is subject to the Laws of earth for He was "taken up" for His heavenly sojourn. God has heaven as His "throne", but His Kingdom will "fill the EARTH". His promise to Abraham fro for a piece of the earth with borders, "for an everlasting possession".

It is true that heaven will rule, as Marylin C says. The throne is heaven (not in heaven), the calling is heavenly (Heb.3:1), the birth is "from above" (lit. Gk.), the Church is modeled to a "pattern in heaven", the bread is from above and the King comes from heaven. Heaven must, and will, rule, but God is Emmanuel - "God WITH us". A King who does not live in His domain is a king in EXILE. Jehovah sought a HOUSE for Himself ON EARTH. In Daniel God's earthly House was gone, and He is tragically called "the God of heaven ONLY", instead of the "god of heaven AND earth". In the Book of Esther we are impressed with His care for a sinning nation, but these Jews did not care for God's Land , God's House, God's Testimony, God's Name, God's Fame and God's heart's desire. And so, again, tragically, God is never mentioned in the book of Esther.

Let us be a people of salt and light - for the earth. Let us be a people who build God's House - the Church, Christ's Body "whose MEMBER OUR BODIES ARE" - Yes, those "EARTHEN VESSELS" which have treasure in them.

"Thy Kingdom COME (to earth), Thy will be done ON EARTH, as it is in heaven"!

[AdHoc]

1 hour ago, Vine Abider said:

I see the promise made to Philly as conditional, and not necessarily to everyone: "Because you have kept My command to persevere, I will also keep you from the hour of testing that is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth." Rev 3:10

Will all Christians keep that command?

If you study carefully you will find that MUCH mischief took place when God delayed.

A certain man planted a vineyard, and let it forth to husbandmen, and went into a far country for a long time. ...

but the husbandmen beat him, and sent him away empty. ...

and they beat him also, and entreated him shamefully, and sent him away empty...

and they wounded him also, and cast him out....

This is the heir: come, let us kill him, that the inheritance may be ours (Lk 20:9–14)

It is the Lord Patience, but it is us who must keep it.

[Dennis1209]

44 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

@Vine Abider @Marilyn C @Dennis1209 @coheir

May I return to New Jerusalem. I will be brief. There is one undeniable proof that New Jerusalem is on New Earth. That is, the Nations may go in and out (Rev.21:24-26). If New Jerusalem is in any part of heaven, then it follows that the Nations went to heaven.

The New Jerusalem has caused much discussion among Bible scholars. Many well schooled and well trained scholars have attempted to make it a literal City. This works some of the way, but soon the exegesis sinks into absurdity. Revelation 1:1 warns us that what the Lord is about to show is shown in "signs". And if this approach is taken, and one is strict about interpreting scripture with scripture, New Jerusalem, with so few words, shows us a detailed consummation of God's plan and heart's desire.

The City is a Woman is a Tabernacle from heaven but comes down to earth. Its number is 144,000 indicating a composite of two peoples of God, 12 Apostles and 12 Tribes. Besides the above signs, it is foursquare - the shape of the Holy of Holies. It is made with men who have the measure of an angel - resurrection (Lk.20:36). Its materials are found in Eden, Gold,  Pearl (the animal version of Bdelllium) and Precious Stones. It has the River of Life and the Tree of Life. All unholy things are kept out by the great and high walls - the Church and the Gates  (Israel) serve God in that they allow only undefiled things in for audience. The Nations are outside, but seeking to visit. Those in the Lake of Fire may not enter, while the rest, not possessing eternal life, must be sustained by the LEAVES of the Tree of Life.

It has God's image and likeness, His light and life, and His GLORY.It is the Bride of Christ. Everything that God planned to do is PICTURED in this City. God's dsire was not to make more creatures in heaven, but "to fill and replenish the earth". God has angels for heaven, but Jesus is a MAN and was made for the EARTH. His body is made of the elements of the earth, his diet is of the earth, He is subject to the Laws of earth for He was "taken up" for His heavenly sojourn. God has heaven as His "throne", but His Kingdom will "fill the EARTH". His promise to Abraham fro for a piece of the earth with borders, "for an everlasting possession".

It is true that heaven will rule, as Marylin C says. The throne is heaven (not in heaven), the calling is heavenly (Heb.3:1), the birth is "from above" (lit. Gk.), the Church is modeled to a "pattern in heaven", the bread is from above and the King comes from heaven. Heaven must, and will, rule, but God is Emmanuel - "God WITH us". A King who does not live in His domain is a king in EXILE. Jehovah sought a HOUSE for Himself ON EARTH. In Daniel God's earthly House was gone, and He is tragically called "the God of heaven ONLY", instead of the "god of heaven AND earth". In the Book of Esther we are impressed with His care for a sinning nation, but these Jews did not care for God's Land , God's House, God's Testimony, God's Name, God's Fame and God's heart's desire. And so, again, tragically, God is never mentioned in the book of Esther.

Let us be a people of salt and light - for the earth. Let us be a people who build God's House - the Church, Christ's Body "whose MEMBER OUR BODIES ARE" - Yes, those "EARTHEN VESSELS" which have treasure in them.

"Thy Kingdom COME (to earth), Thy will be done ON EARTH, as it is in heaven"!

That is well said and explained. Since the Tree of Life was brought up, it will also be in New Jerusalem, which will produce 12 varieties of fruit a month. I consider that tree a literal tree, possibly with some symbology attached. I am not clear about the Tree of Life; let me explain:

Adam and creation were not to taste death (immortal), until Romans 5:12 (KJV) Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

No carnivores in nature existed, and everything was in perfect harmony until Adam sinned. Adam nor Eve ate from the Tree of Life, yet God blocked access to that tree to prevent them from eating thereof.

Once again, we have the Tree of Life inside the New Jerusalem to eat freely in Revelation.

What was the purpose of the Tree of Life when Adam & Eve were in the Garden? Since it was there, why did they not eat from it? Did they not know what death was?

Lastly, with glorified bodies having eternal life in Christ, what purpose does the Tree of Life serve inside the New Jerusalem for those redeemed and glorified?

The only thing I can reconcile is that someone outside the New Jerusalem that is righteous will be allowed to enter the gates, and below will not be permitted entrance:

Revelation 22:15 (KJV) For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

I suspect, possibly within view, the Lake of Fire may be visible.

 

[George]

3 hours ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

Thank you for sharing. Actually I was not aware of " the key of  the house of David" in Isaiah 22 until I read this. It's really neat how Jesus Christ is mentioned throughout the OT in other names . Just look at v. 22 where God calls Him " my servant Eliakim". 

This was the finance minister to King Hezekiah.  Just so you know ...