R. Hartono Posted January 27, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 774 Topics Per Day: 0.34 Content Count: 6,949 Content Per Day: 3.05 Reputation: 1,984 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/15/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 27, 2023 (edited) 8 hours ago, Jayne said: God is not required to save anyone's physical life to prove he is God. God is not required to act in accordance to our will or idea of him to prove he is God. Can you explain how he makes the sun come up every day? Why he made trees green and clouds grey/white? Do you understand why he chose lowly Mt. Sinai and not the majestic Mt. Everest? I can't answer those questions. Yet I trust God and accept every decision he makes. I wish you did, too. Why there was double standard ? Daniel was saved others not. Thats all i asked. @Waggles @grahampaul @TheBlade Edited January 27, 2023 by R. Hartono Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who me Posted January 27, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,300 Content Per Day: 1.71 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted January 27, 2023 5 hours ago, R. Hartono said: Why there was double standard ? Daniel was saved others not. Thats all i asked. @Waggles @grahampaul @TheBlade How is it a double standard? Where did God promise to preserve his life or the lives of his friends in the furnace? God only promises us salvation and to be treated like Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted January 27, 2023 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,245 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,971 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted January 27, 2023 5 hours ago, R. Hartono said: Why there was double standard ? Daniel was saved others not. Thats all i asked. @Waggles @grahampaul @TheBlade I believe it is because we are being used partially as an object lesson as to what happens if someone like Lucifer is left to do his thing throughout eternity. We, like Jesus, are allowed to be abused so that the entire universe can see where the dark one leads to. And if I might say so we are not being asked to do anything that Jesus himself didn't do for us. And in the process he's finding out who will be with him and not try and take over as Lucifer tried. I know a lot of people that is infected with the same Pride that Lucifer was/is. I say is because he hasn't changed at all. It's a very long inter-tangled story from the beginning concerning why we are even here. It's tied in with why we are here in the first place and how God decided to deal with old Lucifer and the future of freewill in the universe. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayne Posted January 27, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 108 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 3,824 Content Per Day: 1.29 Reputation: 4,815 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/31/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted January 27, 2023 (edited) 8 hours ago, R. Hartono said: Why there was double standard ? Daniel was saved others not. Thats all i asked. @Waggles @grahampaul @TheBlade It's not a double standard. That would make God in error. And God is holy, just, and perfect. You [along with countless others] are claiming that God unequally distributes suffering and that this makes him questionable. There are MULTIPLE reasons in the Bible as to why God allows suffering, which includes not being spared bad things. Edited January 27, 2023 by Jayne 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwikphilly Posted January 27, 2023 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 307 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,143 Content Per Day: 4.61 Reputation: 27,833 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted January 27, 2023 God Was the Center of Daniels life- it didn't matter what any king said,not any law- still,Daniel went 3xs a day,facing Jerusalem at his window & prayed to God! Daniels life was in fact a Message for Israel- just as God Spared Daniel He would Save Israel...... He also saved Daniels 3 friends from the fiery furnace,Mishac, Shadrach &: Abednego .... Jesus was the 4th person they saw in the furnace...... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waggles Posted January 27, 2023 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,790 Content Per Day: 0.77 Reputation: 983 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/20/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted January 27, 2023 12 hours ago, R. Hartono said: Why there was double standard ? Daniel was saved others not. What double standard? God intervenes in blessing, and sometimes saving the lives, of his children and servants. God distinguishes those who love and worship the God of Israel from those who do not - who love and serve other gods (even satan). This already is taught way back in Exodus - Exodus 9:5 And the LORD set a time, saying, “Tomorrow the LORD will do this thing in the land.” 6 And the next day the LORD did this thing. All the livestock of the Egyptians died, but not one of the livestock of the people of Israel died. 7 And Pharaoh sent, and behold, not one of the livestock of Israel was dead. But the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, and he did not let the people go. Exodus 12:12 For I will pass through the land of Egypt that night, and I will strike all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and on all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgments: I am the LORD. 13 The blood shall be a sign for you, on the houses where you are. And when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and no plague will befall you to destroy you, when I strike the land of Egypt. Ultimately God has always divided humans from humans - the sheep from the goats - lambs from wolves - the saved from the unsaved. As for the Pentecostal Christians who died horrifically in Rome and elsewhere - they will receive a great reward of eternal life and joy with God in a new Earth and new heaven. Rev 21:2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. 4 He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waggles Posted January 27, 2023 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,790 Content Per Day: 0.77 Reputation: 983 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/20/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted January 27, 2023 12 hours ago, R. Hartono said: Daniel was saved others not. Ezekiel 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is mine: the soul who sins shall die. 5 “If a man is righteous and does what is just and right— 6 if he does not eat upon the mountains or lift up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, does not defile his neighbour's wife or approach a woman in her time of menstrual impurity, 7 does not oppress anyone, but restores to the debtor his pledge, commits no robbery, gives his bread to the hungry and covers the naked with a garment, 8 does not lend at interest or take any profit, withholds his hand from injustice, executes true justice between man and man, 9 walks in my statutes, and keeps my rules by acting faithfully—he is righteous; he shall surely live, declares the Lord GOD. 10 “If he fathers a son who is violent, a shedder of blood, who does any of these things 11 (though he himself did none of these things), who even eats upon the mountains, defiles his neighbour's wife, 12 oppresses the poor and needy, commits robbery, does not restore the pledge, lifts up his eyes to the idols, commits abomination, 13 lends at interest, and takes profit; shall he then live? He shall not live. He has done all these abominations; he shall surely die; his blood shall be upon himself. Is it a double standard to condemn the unrighteous and give life to the righteous ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waggles Posted January 28, 2023 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,790 Content Per Day: 0.77 Reputation: 983 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/20/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted January 28, 2023 (edited) 18 hours ago, R. Hartono said: Why there was double standard ? Daniel was saved others not. That's all I asked. Sorry my apologies .. I misread your post. I think you are asking as to why God saved some notable believers, but not lots of others (such as martyrs fed to the lions) ?? Purpose as to serving the testimony of GOD and his salvation. Saving Daniel and his friends brought about faith for the captured Jews in Babylon and impressed some Babylonians no doubt. Allowing martyrs to die also brought glory to the gospel. The Romans and others were challenged as to why these crazy Christians would die for their God. Romans did not do that. There were so many gods available and the Babylonian religious culture equated these many gods as being different representations of the same power and philosophy. Nobody died contending for their pagan faith. If the emperor wanted to be worshipped as a god, so be it. No problem. But Pentecostal Christians of the NT Roman world died for their one true God of salvation rather than deny him. And this lead to converting many pagans to believe in the power of this true God that could also prove himself by signs ... miracles, healings, praying in tongues, the idea of God dwelling within a believer and above all being forgiven of wrongdoings by a God who took these sins upon himself. No more sacrifices of animals and offerings attempting to appease and placate indifferent gods. Philippians 1:12 Now I would have you know, brethren, that the happenings unto me have come out rather unto progress of the gospel; 13 so that my bonds became manifest in Christ in the whole praetorium, and to all the rest; 14 and that the more part of the brethren in the Lord, confident through my bonds, are more abundantly bold to speak the word of God without fear. Philippians 4:22 All the saints salute you, and specially they of the household of Cæsar. Edited January 28, 2023 by Waggles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Hartono Posted January 28, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 774 Topics Per Day: 0.34 Content Count: 6,949 Content Per Day: 3.05 Reputation: 1,984 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/15/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 28, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Waggles said: Sorry my apologies .. I misread your post. I think you are asking as to why God saved some notable believers, but not lots of others (such as martyrs fed to the lions) ?? Purpose as to serving the testimony of GOD and his salvation. Saving Daniel and his friends brought about faith for the captured Jews in Babylon and impressed some Babylonians no doubt. Allowing martyrs to die also brought glory to the gospel. The Romans and others were challenged as to why these crazy Christians would die for their God. Romans did not do that. There were so many gods available and the Babylonian religious culture equated these many gods as being different representations of the same power and philosophy. Nobody died contending for their pagan faith. If the emperor wanted to be worshipped as a god, so be it. No problem. But Pentecostal Christians of the NT Roman world died for their one true God of salvation rather than deny him. And this lead to converting many pagans to believe in the power of this true God that could also prove himself by signs ... miracles, healings, praying in tongues, the idea of God dwelling within a believer and above all being forgiven of wrongdoings by a God who took these sins upon himself. No more sacrifices of animals and offerings attempting to appease and placate indifferent gods. Philippians 1:12 Now I would have you know, brethren, that the happenings unto me have come out rather unto progress of the gospel; 13 so that my bonds became manifest in Christ in the whole praetorium, and to all the rest; 14 and that the more part of the brethren in the Lord, confident through my bonds, are more abundantly bold to speak the word of God without fear. Philippians 4:22 All the saints salute you, and specially they of the household of Cæsar. Thanks for trying to explain. Imho the Roman would believe in Gospel if the lions did not dare to touch the saints. Not otherwise. @kwikphilly @Jayne @Marathoner Edited January 28, 2023 by R. Hartono Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marathoner Posted January 28, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 72 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,264 Content Per Day: 7.09 Reputation: 13,292 Days Won: 99 Joined: 05/24/2020 Status: Online Share Posted January 28, 2023 2 hours ago, R. Hartono said: Thanks for trying to explain. Imho the Roman would believe in Gospel if the lions did not dare to touch the saints. Not otherwise. @kwikphilly @Jayne @Marathoner Ah, so you know better than the Lord? This never ends well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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