If a cloned human is created at lab. where does his soul come from ?

[Roymond]

On 2/8/2023 at 9:57 AM, Selah7 said:

 

 This cloning junk sounds like a modern Tower of Babel, doesn’t it?  God will not tolerate it.  Trying to create an identical life (a cloned copy) to what He has created is demonic.  Artificial DNA is unnatural and again, God doesn’t like it. 

 

"Artificial DNA"?

I don't think anyone is anywhere close to even trying such a thing!

And why should creating "an identical life (a cloned copy)" be demonic?  It would be little different from twins.

[Roymond]

On 2/8/2023 at 10:17 PM, Tristen said:

I don't think it is plausible to actually clone a human. Given the catastrophic statistics for animal cloning, it would certainly be unethical to try human cloning using current knowledge.

 

We've come a long way from those animal experiments; those involved taking "adult" DNA and putting it into an egg -- something that was almost certain to bring problems because the DNA had already undergone differentiation as it became a specific tissue type, and alteration as it aged.

What's presently being contemplated is using stem cells as the DNA source, in  fact very early stem cells.  That will avoid all the problems with the other approach because the stem cells don't "know" what they're going to be yet.

Though there's another kind of cloning that has almost certainly been done but not announced:  if you catch the developing embryo when it still has less than a hundred cells or so  (I'm not certain of the number) and split it, the two bunches of cells will each develop into an embryo which should have no problem progressing to the fetus stage.  I know that with animals one team split an embryo IIRC eight times and let them all grow until they started forming into fetuses and they let them grow long enough to tell they were all growing normally.  I would be very surprised if no one has tried it with human cells from a cast-off egg -- they're just not going to talk about it because of the negative reactions.

[Tristen]

4 hours ago, Roymond said:

We've come a long way from those animal experiments; those involved taking "adult" DNA and putting it into an egg -- something that was almost certain to bring problems because the DNA had already undergone differentiation as it became a specific tissue type, and alteration as it aged.

What's presently being contemplated is using stem cells as the DNA source, in  fact very early stem cells.  That will avoid all the problems with the other approach because the stem cells don't "know" what they're going to be yet.

Many of the labs experimenting with cloning stopped doing so starting over a decade ago - mainly due to ethical concerns over the shear amount of animal suffering resulting from the massive failure rates.

When I last looked into it, the main hurdle was epigenetics, not tissue "differentiation". Differentiated tissues contain the same DNA as every other cell in the body. The epigenetic problem is that many genes are 'switched' on and off as we develop. Therefore, the DNA from an older person contains many genes required for early development that have been 'switched off' - as well as other 'switched on' genes that hinder early development. I have not seen any research claiming to have overcome this issue (though am happy to take a look if you know of any).

It is possible that this could be rectified by using DNA from early blastocysts - though I am uncertain what would be the point of such an experiment - since there is a very limited source of DNA for cloning, and you don't know what is being cloned until he/she matures. That would seem to defeat the purpose of most reasons for cloning.

 

4 hours ago, Roymond said:

Though there's another kind of cloning that has almost certainly been done but not announced:  if you catch the developing embryo when it still has less than a hundred cells or so  (I'm not certain of the number) and split it, the two bunches of cells will each develop into an embryo which should have no problem progressing to the fetus stage.  I know that with animals one team split an embryo IIRC eight times and let them all grow until they started forming into fetuses and they let them grow long enough to tell they were all growing normally.  I would be very surprised if no one has tried it with human cells from a cast-off egg -- they're just not going to talk about it because of the negative reactions.

I'd have to see the research - but going from your description, I'd be more inclined to describe these as twins/triplets etc., rather than clones.

I suppose - if the parents desire twins, this might one day be a viable option. But other than that, I'm still not sure about the goal of such technology.

 

5 hours ago, Roymond said:

"Artificial DNA"?

I don't think anyone is anywhere close to even trying such a thing!

And why should creating "an identical life (a cloned copy)" be demonic?  It would be little different from twins.

I think it would be fair to describe entities such as cDNA (copy DNA), PCR primers, and even PCR products, as "artificial DNA". 

I agree with you if you mean constructing a whole "artificial" genome. Maybe someone could try to make a genomically small, virus-like entity. But even that is very ambitious at this stage.

 

[Who me]

7 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

Let's say for instance, Abraham's zygote is cloned, his DNA is removed and other man's DNA is inserted, Will he remain the same Abraham ? 

 

No, simple because a person is more than just there genetic make up.

[kwikphilly]

I'm chuckling here because the most brilliant minds on the planet cannot fully understand the "mind" let alone the soul and least of all the spirit of a man,lol

Then along comes the Christian,lol.   Is the soul merely our consciousness and is that consciousness spiritual,carnal,both? Does the spirit of a man contail his soul or does his soul contain his spirit.?When God Breathed the Breath of Life into the first man did he give him soul or spirit? Surely if our spirit is dead in sin until we are birthed by Spirit then does that mean the breath of Life is soul or spirit? Can a man live without a soul ,can he live without a spirit - 

Anyway,my answers are irrelevant,my point is- is there a point to this discussion,lol

With love in Christ, Kwik

[com7fy8]

9 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

You misunderstood me.

I mean what if a fertilized ovum (which Will become Abraham) is cloned, where Abraham's DNA is removed and then another man's DNA is inserted. Will that cloned Cell become the same Abraham soul ?

No.

The physical DNA can not be a person's spiritual soul that still exists after the person's body dies.

[com7fy8]

On 2/10/2023 at 1:39 AM, Roymond said:

Interesting idea....

So a soul normally comes from the souls of the parents... but with cloning the two 'parents' could both be female....

 

Then the child would be female, I would think. I mean the child's body would be. Spiritually, I think you are neither, in your real deeper identity.

 

Edited February 11, 2023 by com7fy8

[Tristen]

3 hours ago, kwikphilly said:

I'm chuckling here because the most brilliant minds on the planet cannot fully understand the "mind" let alone the soul and least of all the spirit of a man,lol

Then along comes the Christian,lol.   Is the soul merely our consciousness and is that consciousness spiritual,carnal,both? Does the spirit of a man contail his soul or does his soul contain his spirit.?When God Breathed the Breath of Life into the first man did he give him soul or spirit? Surely if our spirit is dead in sin until we are birthed by Spirit then does that mean the breath of Life is soul or spirit? Can a man live without a soul ,can he live without a spirit - 

Anyway,my answers are irrelevant,my point is- is there a point to this discussion,lol

With love in Christ, Kwik

I just think it's an interesting thought experiment - especially if some scientists are intent on one day trying to clone humans.

But yes, Lol. Not only do we not have any idea how to clone humans, we only have speculations about the machinations of souls and spirits.

 

[Roymond]

4 hours ago, Tristen said:

I just think it's an interesting thought experiment - especially if some scientists are intent on one day trying to clone humans.

But yes, Lol. Not only do we not have any idea how to clone humans, we only have speculations about the machinations of souls and spirits.

 

We most certainly have ideas how to clone humans; several of them in fact.

And there's a very high probability that these have been done already.

[Selah7]

12 minutes ago, Roymond said:

We most certainly have ideas how to clone humans; several of them in fact.

And there's a very high probability that these have been done already.

Do we “have ideas how to clone” a spirit?