The End of this Age

[truth7t7]

20 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

 a 7 headed man, with that, I take leave of the conversation.   

I don't agree with his claim of Satan and the false prophet judged for a literal 1,000 years, but Revelation gave a clear interpretation of the symbolic metaphor concerning (The Beast) with 7 heads and 10 horns, it appears you give this no consideration?

[Montana Marv]

4 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

Yes they are.  Paul explained that those who remain are "changed" in 1 Cor 15:52.  Which is also indicated in 1 Thess 4.

Changed yes, resurrected no.  One needs to be dead to be resurrected.  Those in 1 Thes 4:17 are Alive in Christ (they go up in the Rapture), not Dead in Christ.  These Dead in Christ are the first individuals to be changed and immediately next are those Alive in Christ which are changed.

Gal 2:20 - I have been crucified with Christ, Rom 8:10,11 - But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness.  And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.

This is the Church's, (the Body of Christ) Resurrection.  It has already happened.  Our resurrection is complete because of the Spirit who lives in us, we just have not received are new transformed bodies.

5 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

Of course it is.  Follow the dots.  There is just ONE resurrection of the saved.  Dan 12:2, John 5:29 and Acts 24:15.  All these verses also indicate ONE resurrection for the unsaved as well.

1 Cor 15:23 is very clear.  "those who belong to him" includes ALL the saved, obviously.  Or prove it cannot mean that.  And the verse tells us WHEN that singular resurrection will occur, which is "when He comes" a clear reference to the Second Advent.

Don't forget Col 3:20-21 which cleary connects the resurrection of believers with the Second Advent as well.

See above.

5 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

I don't buy any "harvest" principle, since "harvest" isn't linked to any resurrection in the Bible.  1 Cor 15:23 isn't about any harvest, but the FACT that Jesus is the FIRST human to receive a glorified immortal body.  Also confirmed in Acts 26:23.

You don't have to buy it.

If one has not been crucified with Christ, and the Spirit who lives in you has not given your dead mortal sinful body life, you have not experienced a resurrection.

But if one has been crucified with Christ, and the Spirit who lives in us has given our dead sinful mortal body life, We have been Resurrected.  There is the Church, Spirit filled.  Then there are those of Israel, not Spirit filled yet, and the rest of the Just, not Spirit filled yet.  Different resurrections for the Just at different times.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[WilliamL]

8 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

9 hours ago, WilliamL said:

For you to say this again shows you haven't been paying attention to what I've said.

Rather, all we get from you is your "multiple harvest harvest" theory that you haven't proved.

Thank you for proving my point. The multiple harvest teaching here was from The Light, not me.

8 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

Rev 20 says plainly the trib martyrs will rise from the dead.

Rev. 20 says nothing about the Tribulation. That is purely your spec, without any evidence. The only GT reference in Rev. is in Rev. 7, right after the 6th Seal events. Where it should be.

8 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

I've done that with your teaching and I find that what you claim is not true.

Ditto. You make unsupported claims, then demand proof from others. But you have provided no coherent argument for Rev. 4-20 as a whole, rather just lock on to a short passage in 20 as being sufficient for your claims.

[Michael37]

9 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

Changed yes, resurrected no.  One needs to be dead to be resurrected.  Those in 1 Thes 4:17 are Alive in Christ (they go up in the Rapture), not Dead in Christ.  These Dead in Christ are the first individuals to be changed and immediately next are those Alive in Christ which are changed.

Gal 2:20 - I have been crucified with Christ, Rom 8:10,11 - But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness.  And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.

This is the Church's, (the Body of Christ) Resurrection.  It has already happened.  Our resurrection is complete because of the Spirit who lives in us, we just have not received are new transformed bodies.

See above.

You don't have to buy it.

If one has not been crucified with Christ, and the Spirit who lives in you has not given your dead mortal sinful body life, you have not experienced a resurrection.

But if one has been crucified with Christ, and the Spirit who lives in us has given our dead sinful mortal body life, We have been Resurrected.  There is the Church, Spirit filled.  Then there are those of Israel, not Spirit filled yet, and the rest of the Just, not Spirit filled yet.  Different resurrections for the Just at different times.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Interesting passage regarding resurrection:

2 Timothy 2:

16But avoid irreverent, empty chatter, which will only lead to more ungodliness, 17and the talk of such men will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, 18who have deviated from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already occurred, and they undermine the faith of some.

19Nevertheless, God’s firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,”b and, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord must turn away from iniquity.”

Interesting notes from the Bible Believer's Commentary:

Two men are named whose teachings were corrupting the local church. They were Hymenaeus and Philetus. Because they failed to handle the word of truth correctly, they take their place with others in God's hall of shame.
2:18 Their false teaching is here exposed. They told the people that the resurrection was already past. Perhaps they meant that when a person was saved and was raised to newness of life with Christ, that was the only resurrection he could expect. In other words, they spiritualized the resurrection and scoffed at the idea of a literal raising of the body from the grave. Paul recognized this as a serious threat to the truth of Christianity.
Hamilton Smith says:
If the resurrection is past already, it is evident that the saints have reached their final condition while yet on earth, with the result that the church ceases to look for the coming of the Lord, loses the truth of its heavenly destiny, and gives up its stranger and pilgrim character. Having lost its heavenly character, the church settles down on the earth, taking a place as part of the system for the reformation and government of the world.

[Montana Marv]

20 minutes ago, truth7t7 said:

I don't agree with his claim of Satan and the false prophet judged for a literal 1,000 years, but Revelation gave a clear interpretation of the symbolic metaphor concerning (The Beast) with 7 heads and 10 horns, it appears you give this no consideration?

There are 3 beasts mentioned in Rev 13.  The first is a kingdom, the beast with 7 heads and 10 horns.  There then is the beast who had the fatal wound and came back to life, along with the False Prophet who did many wonders and caused people to worship the beast who had the fatal wound.  These last two beasts are the first occupants of the LOF .

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Montana Marv]

7 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

Interesting passage regarding resurrection:

2 Timothy 2:

16But avoid irreverent, empty chatter, which will only lead to more ungodliness, 17and the talk of such men will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, 18who have deviated from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already occurred, and they undermine the faith of some.

19Nevertheless, God’s firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,”b and, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord must turn away from iniquity.”

Interesting notes from the Bible Believer's Commentary:

Two men are named whose teachings were corrupting the local church. They were Hymenaeus and Philetus. Because they failed to handle the word of truth correctly, they take their place with others in God's hall of shame.
2:18 Their false teaching is here exposed. They told the people that the resurrection was already past. Perhaps they meant that when a person was saved and was raised to newness of life with Christ, that was the only resurrection he could expect. In other words, they spiritualized the resurrection and scoffed at the idea of a literal raising of the body from the grave. Paul recognized this as a serious threat to the truth of Christianity.
Hamilton Smith says:
If the resurrection is past already, it is evident that the saints have reached their final condition while yet on earth, with the result that the church ceases to look for the coming of the Lord, loses the truth of its heavenly destiny, and gives up its stranger and pilgrim character. Having lost its heavenly character, the church settles down on the earth, taking a place as part of the system for the reformation and government of the world.

The Believers resurrection happens at salvation.   1 Thes 4: 16,17 list 2 different peoples; Those Dead in Christ who rise first, then those Alive in Christ (have not seen physical death) rise to meet our Lord in the air.  What is in common here, All were or are filled with the Holy Spirit.  The only time these Alive in Christ can be resurrected is upon salvation and being changed by the Holy Spirit.  If one has been crucified with Christ, He also has been raised with Christ by the work of the Holy Spirit.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Michael37]

39 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

There are 3 beasts mentioned in Rev 13.  The first is a kingdom, the beast with 7 heads and 10 horns.  There then is the beast who had the fatal wound and came back to life, along with the False Prophet who did many wonders and caused people to worship the beast who had the fatal wound.  These last two beasts are the first occupants of the LOF .

In Christ

Montana Marv

The First Beast from the Sea does have seven heads, and one of those heads is described as being mortally wounded before it is healed.

Rev 13:2-3  Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority.  (3)  And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed. And all the world marveled and followed the beast.
 

The Second Beast from the Earth is the False Prophet.

Rev 19:20  Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone.
 

[Montana Marv]

21 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

Rev 13:2-3  Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion

Yes, a lot like what is described in Daniel 7.  Attributes from 4 different kingdoms all rolled into one.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[kenny2212]

5 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

No, the body houses the person.

The body is dead because the spirit has left the house.  James 2:26

Read Gen 2:7 for clarification.

Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

When the "breath of life" leaves the body (dust of the ground), the "person" has died. 

Everyone knows this, regardless of orientation.  When a "person" dies, they are said to have "passed away" meaning they are NOT where the body IS.

Or they have "passed on", again indicating that "they" are NOT where the body IS.

Do you not distinguish between body and soul?  The material and immaterial?

You've not responded to my post. Please respond to my post. Respond to this - 

"Of what use is Jesus' sharing of this information if God is never going to do the information?

You're contradicting yourself. Why should we fear God for something he won't do?

You said "As I already pointed out, God never wastes words.  He IS able to destroy both body and soul.  But will He?  Where does the Bible SAY that He will?  Where does the Bible show that He will?  Do you have any evidence for that action?""

Edited March 17, 2023 by kenny2212

[truth7t7]

5 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

There are 3 beasts mentioned in Rev 13.  The first is a kingdom, the beast with 7 heads and 10 horns.  There then is the beast who had the fatal wound and came back to life, along with the False Prophet who did many wonders and caused people to worship the beast who had the fatal wound.  These last two beasts are the first occupants of the LOF .

In Christ

Montana Marv

I Disagree, there are 2 beasts

The Beast rising out of the sea is the antichrist, the beast of the earth is the false prophet

The final judgement to the lake of fire takes place on the last day at the second coming, there are no first occupants as claimed