New Wine in Old Wineskins (clergy/laity system)

[FJK]

14 minutes ago, Neighbor said:

Key to all order is serious personal humility and personal willing submission to it ( Order). with order comes leadership; leadership appointed by God  whether it be government or Christ's Church.

This would be a Catholic position? 

Did Martin Luther sin when he rebelled against the Catholic Church and established Protestant Churches?

[kwikphilly]

On 3/11/2023 at 7:23 AM, Dennis1209 said:

Good morning, @Vine Abider,

I would like to see that movie. I suppose I should check if it is playing anywhere within driving distance. I have not been to a movie theater since the 1970s. Will $10.00 still get my wife and me in, that includes popcorn and a soda? 😊

The topic is an interesting conversation you started. I often watched Greg Laurie on YouTube when the topic piqued my interest, and I cannot say I have ever strongly disagreed with anything he teaches.

I am unfamiliar with the hierarchical system you mentioned about Calvary Chapel or Harvest Baptist. Are you implying pastors, deacons, elders, and laity? Would you elaborate?

Also, are we discussing Matthew 9:16-17, putting new wine into old wineskins? Since I did not see the movie, I only wanted to follow along.

Me too but I'm way too distracted by now after reading these 4 pages,lol.  

I was looking forward to seeing the movie,sounds great,Brother OneLight filled me in on it( better than the trailer!)

I like VA's Title,seems very fitting considering the OP and his explanation of Holy Spirit doing ,well not a " new" thing but what seems to have gotten lost along the way with all the carnality within the hierarchy of the different deniminations--- which has become like old wine skins imo

Now the Topic seems to have gone some other direction,not sure where except " it should be this n that" and bah humbug on the churches?I do like Greg Lauries passion,especially for our youths and his Testimony is wonderful.....I'd like to hear more about that Recent Revival as compared to the Jesus Revolution of the 70s ...

So what's so awful about a church hierarchy,someone has to oversee,not everyone can be the top chef,gotta have line cooks,preppers and too many cooks spoil the stew- everyone to their respective position,no?I do attend a Calvary Chapel,they've got a very nice balance and they all seem to make it work quite well-the thing that stands out most in that church is the love and unity within the Ministry Team and tons of volunteers " helps"- Praise Jesus!

[farouk]

51 minutes ago, FJK said:

This would be a Catholic position? 

Did Martin Luther sin when he rebelled against the Catholic Church and established Protestant Churches?

@FJK Then Luther and others seemed to be happy to set up politically driven and patronized church systems which allowed little variance of viewpoints.

What there really is Scriptural authority for is gathered companies of truly born again Christians following Acts 2.42 activities in their localities.

[FJK]

1 minute ago, farouk said:

What there really is Scriptural authority for is gathered companies of truly born again Christians following Acts 2.42 activities in their localities.

I ran across the Didache for the first time a few months ago, how I missed it earlier in my life I do not know.

What's your impression of it and should it still be relevant for Christians almost 2000 years later?  Or does it describe old wineskins instead of new?

[farouk]

Just now, FJK said:

I ran across the Didache for the first time a few months ago, how I missed it earlier in my life I do not know.

What's your impression of it and should it still be relevant for Christians almost 2000 years later?  Or does it describe old wineskins instead of new?

@FJK I must confess I have not read this whole thread; I haven't read what the Didache refers to on this thread.......

[FJK]

Just now, farouk said:

@FJK I must confess I have not read this whole thread; I haven't read what the Didache refers to on this thread.......

Actually it doesn't, just something that keeps popping into my mind while I read it since it comes from the early Christian Church (old wineskins?).  Thought maybe you might add something I could consider.

[farouk]

Just now, FJK said:

Actually it doesn't, just something that keeps popping into my mind while I read it since it comes from the early Christian Church (old wineskins?).  Thought maybe you might add something I could consider.

Leonard Verduin's The Reformers and Their Stepchildren is a thoughtful book about how the Anabaptists shared some of the Scriptural doctrinal concerns of the Reformers but faced much opposition because the state Protestant leaders wanted to monopolize and control.

[Dennis1209]

38 minutes ago, kwikphilly said:

Me too but I'm way too distracted by now after reading these 4 pages,lol.  

I was looking forward to seeing the movie,sounds great,Brother OneLight filled me in on it( better than the trailer!)

I like VA's Title,seems very fitting considering the OP and his explanation of Holy Spirit doing ,well not a " new" thing but what seems to have gotten lost along the way with all the carnality within the hierarchy of the different deniminations--- which has become like old wine skins imo

Now the Topic seems to have gone some other direction,not sure where except " it should be this n that" and bah humbug on the churches?I do like Greg Lauries passion,especially for our youths and his Testimony is wonderful.....I'd like to hear more about that Recent Revival as compared to the Jesus Revolution of the 70s ...

So what's so awful about a church hierarchy,someone has to oversee,not everyone can be the top chef,gotta have line cooks,preppers and too many cooks spoil the stew- everyone to their respective position,no?I do attend a Calvary Chapel,they've got a very nice balance and they all seem to make it work quite well-the thing that stands out most in that church is the love and unity within the Ministry Team and tons of volunteers " helps"- Praise Jesus!

You may not be the person to ask, but what is the perceived objection to Greg Laurie and the church's structure?

[kwikphilly]

35 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

You may not be the person to ask, but what is the perceived objection to Greg Laurie and the church's structure?

Probably not Brother as I see no objections.... I don't see problems with most structures within the churches either,Often times some people are a problem but I don't think theirs a problem with a hierarchy,unless all the Indians want to be Chief,lol

Besides,we have but One Head ,right? So as long as every person remembers WHO is HEAD,especially a lead pastor,what's the deal?

Of course I have in mind non- denominational churches,like Greg Lauries or Calvary,Abundant Life,Henry Fernandez etc   what do you think?

[farouk]

The Lord Jesus is indeed 'head over all things to the church, which is His body, the fullness of Him that filleth all in all' (Ephesians 1).