What does it take 'to Believe'?

[Neighbor]

On 3/16/2023 at 12:16 PM, DeighAnn said:

Gods words are perfect and the only thing we can count on as being TRUTH. 

Hi, I would concur that  His word can be nothing but perfect.

I do wonder about man's various translations/transliterations of his word being accurate  to the point one can make that statement about them.

Also I find man's interruption of the flow of God's messages by inserting paragraph breaks  chapter breaks even book breaks and especially  numbering "verses" to be a severe hinderance to comprehension. All, every one, of those "hinderances" to my mind's abilities are the work of men, not God. Are they inspired work? No, they are the best work of well intended scholars though.

Is"the Bible " complete? Hmm, what would be the assessment if that third letter of Paul to the church at Corinth the second one he wrote, and known because of reference to it's existence within the Bible's known account? Would it be  considered the word of God the Bible or would it be considered an extrabiblical writing?

Conclusion:

I suggest the word of God is perfect; but the record of the word of God is not perfect nor complete as it is contained in English language  versions, each version having difference for the copyright sake of competing publishers.

Nonetheless I am limited in my own skills to English. I am not a scholar. I do not understand Hebrew, I do not understand Greek. Nor any other language. 

And so I cherish the best efforts of many scholars  who do understand and do work whom have over time diligently prayerfully with great thought worked to share, with even me in my limitations, what they understand to be God's word, it's meaning, it's original application for a culture and it's application for today and for me personally.

I praise God for them (Their work) being available to me in this day.

 

 

[DeighAnn]

5 hours ago, Neighbor said:

Hi, I would concur that  His word can be nothing but perfect.

I do wonder about man's various translations/transliterations of his word being accurate  to the point one can make that statement about them.

Also I find man's interruption of the flow of God's messages by inserting paragraph breaks  chapter breaks even book breaks and especially  numbering "verses" to be a severe hinderance to comprehension. All, every one, of those "hinderances" to my mind's abilities are the work of men, not God. Are they inspired work? No, they are the best work of well intended scholars though.

Is"the Bible " complete? Hmm, what would be the assessment if that third letter of Paul to the church at Corinth the second one he wrote, and known because of reference to it's existence within the Bible's known account? Would it be  considered the word of God the Bible or would it be considered an extrabiblical writing?

Conclusion:

I suggest the word of God is perfect; but the record of the word of God is not perfect nor complete as it is contained in English language  versions, each version having difference for the copyright sake of competing publishers.

Nonetheless I am limited in my own skills to English. I am not a scholar. I do not understand Hebrew, I do not understand Greek. Nor any other language. 

And so I cherish the best efforts of many scholars  who do understand and do work whom have over time diligently prayerfully with great thought worked to share, with even me in my limitations, what they understand to be God's word, it's meaning, it's original application for a culture and it's application for today and for me personally.

I praise God for them (Their work) being available to me in this day.

 

 

And I suggest it doesn't matter, WE have the words of God WE are supposed to have.  Then again, I use KJV and the most original Hebrew Greek I could afford and will never leave them.  I do not depend upon the verse breaks and chapter breaks but have NO IDEA if anyone else would 'divide' as I do, but know it works for me.  

So I never think about HOW I GOT it in the condition I have it, I JUST HAVE FAITH that GOD made sure to put the right translation for me in my hands.  I actually can't stand to read it in the 'modern' translation since I studied it in the KJV, and that is like my 'heavenly' language somehow.  

But hey, GOD calls you in the way He wants you, and I totally respect that...as long as what is written is what is meant...I am good to go.  

[Neighbor]

6 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

I use KJV and the most original Hebrew Greek

You are fluent in both Greek and Hebrew, as well as English.  Wow I am impressed!  I have troubles with American English as my lone language. To know Greek plus Hebrew would be such an awesome advantage.

I have had the joy of having not one scholar but four at the same time over the many years that have been local church body friends as well as mentors; yet I have never been able to grasp the languages for myself. Such  is my own limitation.

Oh such sharp minds, but then they couldn't fix a broken 480 volt 12 ton air conditioner if their life depended upon it. They do appreciate that I  in turn do know, or did anyway. LOL.  I find I am remembering less and less of that which I used to know well these days. Seems age comes at a price. Anyway awesome that you have that ability to know and use three languages. Just realized you are stating you are comfortable with English language  from England of a time period long ago.

p.s. I find I do use the American Standard 1901 Bible ( "The hard rock of truth" ) rather than the king James; referring to the American committee's update from 1901 of the KJV, the English never having following through with their own update. 

[DeighAnn]

4 hours ago, Neighbor said:

You are fluent in both Greek and Hebrew, as well as English.  Wow I am impressed!  I have troubles with American English as my lone language. To know Greek plus Hebrew would be such an awesome advantage.

Absolutely not.  I am not even fluent in English.  Wow, I must sound smart.  Big apologies if I somehow made it come across that way.  GREENS Interlinear, and NASB.  

[DeighAnn]

4 hours ago, Neighbor said:

I have had the joy of having not one scholar but four at the same time over the many years that have been local church body friends as well as mentors; yet I have never been able to grasp the languages for myself. Such  is my own limitation.

THIS is me too.  Had to reply to the first part as soon as I read it because it instantly made me feel like a liar, and I just copied a verse that speaks of them going into the lake of fire.  AGAIN, I am sorry to have caused you to believe that.  

 

[Neighbor]

26 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

AGAIN, I am sorry to have caused you to believe that.  

"No harm, no foul." quoting Chick Hearn

[other one]

On 3/14/2023 at 10:45 AM, DeighAnn said:

Can anyone 'believe' in something in which they possess NO TRUTH?  Can we believe in Jesus, if we don't know His words?

Muslims in the Middle East are becoming believers through visions they are having.  They have knowledge of Jesus through their teachings, but the visions are showing them who Jesus really is.   They don't possess the real truth about him but are receiving it directly from the Holy Spirit.

So to answer your question (and I can't believe I just saw this thread)  I would say that what it takes to believe is a simple touch of the Holy Spirit.

That's been my experience throughout my life both within myself and watching and speaking to others.

[kwikphilly]

22 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Sorry, I don't retain what goes with what names so I am thinking Calvinist is the some are predestined others not?  OK, I have no idea, just guessing from the topic.  

So, should I start it or do you want to? 

Go for it Sis.    Just don't forget to pm me if you don't see me join you- I may not see it but I'll be there!🥰

[DeighAnn]

22 minutes ago, other one said:

Muslims in the Middle East are becoming believers through visions they are having.  They have knowledge of Jesus through their teachings, but the visions are showing them who Jesus really is.   They don't possess the real truth about him but are receiving it directly from the Holy Spirit.

So to answer your question (and I can't believe I just saw this thread)  I would say that what it takes to believe is a simple touch of the Holy Spirit.

That's been my experience throughout my life both within myself and watching and speaking to others.

OK, here is my problem.  IF the Holy Spirit touching us gave us TRUTH, we would all be in agreement.  No debates, everyone knows the same thing.

Can the Holy Spirit 'touch' or give anything to anyone who has not come to faith?

And if the middle east dreams are really happening THAT would be really exciting as to our place in 'the season' and I have no problem with my own personal lack of understanding everything, sometimes I just have to take it on faith it isn't mine to know right now...maybe later. 

BUT I believe that the visions and dreams CAN be the basis of becoming a true believer but to become a soldier you have to have His wisdom and knowledge

BUT those don't really get along with each other very well. WOW, I am just all over the place.  Don't think I have had that many conflicts in such a short time in awhile.  You must have hit a nerve.  THANK YOU.  For sure going to get coffee
 

[kwikphilly]

34 minutes ago, other one said:

Muslims in the Middle East are becoming believers through visions they are having.  They have knowledge of Jesus through their teachings, but the visions are showing them who Jesus really is.   They don't possess the real truth about him but are receiving it directly from the Holy Spirit.

So to answer your question (and I can't believe I just saw this thread)  I would say that what it takes to believe is a simple touch of the Holy Spirit.

That's been my experience throughout my life both within myself and watching and speaking to others.

HALLELUYAH! It's astonishing,isn't it?!  I just love hearing an ex muslim testify of Jesus Coming,Manifesting Himself to them - they that didn't even know what a Christian or a Bible was and they met The WORD of God just like Saul on the road to Damascus

Praise Jesus- I did not see Him with the eyes in my head but I Knew Him with the Eyes of Understanding and saw with the Eyes of my Heart when I Called out His Name in total & utter despair,Life Began that Day,that Glorious Day and funny,nothing spectacular happened,no magnificent fireworks event,it was quite the opposite- everything was still,Embraced by Perfect Peace ..whatever was not of God fled and everything changed in a moment