Christians need Law, security forces and Armaments to keep order and protection

[R. Hartono]

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts 23%3A12-35&version=NIV 

Kindly read first the above story.

We cannot let criminals loose without preventive measures and arm force to protect the innocents.

We do not expect revenge but without Law and arm forces what Will become of society if you hug all criminals and say their sins are forgiven and Jesus loves them (like many Christians in this forum says). 

Christians use the story of Jesus forgiving a woman who committed adultery and release her, as example for christians to do.

Its true we should forgive criminals but citizens need Law and jails to contain criminals and teach them lessons, to keep the order and protect the innocents. Otherwise who will save people from serial killers and robbers, drug dealers, rapers and corruptors and thieves or terrorists that hijack the building or plane and kill the innocent ? Does the church do that ?

Even with Law and guns the jails in this nation is overcrowded. We need Law and force to arrest criminals even with death sentence like Joshua did to Achan and his family. Meanwhile you can visit them in jails and offer salvation of Bible for them to repent while they are still alive so they may have the chance of Salvation and repent before they die.  

Otherwise we will live in misery in this unHoly world. This is reality, we do not live in VIRTUAL world.

I'm not suggesting people to carry guns.

Edited March 18, 2023 by R. Hartono

[FJK]

Sometimes God's ways seem foolish to men, which is why men never seem to practice them and the problems they address are never solved.

 

The way I see it, others may see it differently.

[Ogner]

I don't have faith in people any more.
They'll twist whatever you say. People will judge those who repent. And they'll acquit those who never repented or only pretended  to repent.
And they will create a "god" after them own image. Same as they do with Jesus. 
They have abused holy words so enormously that religion has become a vast superstition, a great propaganda, incredible beliefs and superstitions. 
As the Professor Preobrazhensky  said, "destruction is not in the closets, but in the minds". ( novella "Heart of a Dog" by Russian author Mikhail Bulgakov)
The problem is not in the Law but people.

'For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. '
2 Timothy 4:3

I believe that time has long since come!

[Neighbor]

It is a difficult subject, one that can fester in one's heart and cause much distress to one's self if one decides to carry the torch  of revenge.

Justice needs be tempered with mercy.

As a practical matter there are way too many prisoners having now served decades in prisons for crimes they did not commit. DNA evidence now available is showing serious error in the guilty judgements of juries.

To have put these innocent individuals to death or chopped off body parts would have been an even greater injustice than to have made them serve most of their lifespan  imprisoned only to be released late in life with an oops sorry a mistake was made.

 

 

[OneLight]

On 3/16/2023 at 11:14 PM, R. Hartono said:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts 23%3A12-35&version=NIV 

Kindly read first the above story.

We cannot let criminals loose without preventive measures and arm force to protect the innocents.

We do not expect revenge but without Law and arm forces what Will become of society if you hug all criminals and say their sins are forgiven and Jesus loves them (like many Christians in this forum says). 

Christians use the story of Jesus forgiving a woman who committed adultery and release her, as example for christians to do.

Its true we should forgive but letting criminals go unpunished Will make the society live in Jungle Law and turmoils. What Will happen if you did not NUKE Hiroshima and Nagasaki ? You want to say you love them and their sins forgiven ? While the whole Asian nations were robbed and raped and killed brutally while you sit at your church in peace ? How do you protect the innocents ?

Are you going to let terrorist such as 9/11 escape in the name of love, there's something cripple in that attitude. 

Even with Law and guns the jails in this nation is overcrowded. You need to arrest and punish even with death sentence like Joshua did to Achan and his family. Meanwhile you can visit them in jails and offer salvation of Bible for them to repent while they are still alive so they may have the chance of Salvation and repent before they die.  

Otherwise we will live like cripple that cannot walk in this unHoly world. This is reality, we do not live in VIRTUAL world.

 

Since I am the one who provided the verse that is in bold above, it seems you missed the whole purposes behind the message, which is "He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.”.  Allow me to ask you if you believe we should follow Jesus's examples from scripture or mans laws and logic?

I also think it's sad to see you try to make forgiveness the same as not holding someone accountable.  A person can forgive someone who has committed a crime, but charges can still be brought against them in a court of law.  In the end, Jesus will be the final Judge.  I sure hope your bitterness don't trip you up.

[The_Patriot21]

Always a fine line. Yes, people should be held accountable for their actions. No, christians shouldn't just bend over and cower. Yes, christians can own guns and can defend themselves.

But there's a difference between defending oneself, and taking the law into our own hands. We arnt vigilantes. Even with the adulterous woman, Jesus didn't break the law. Nor did he forbid anyone there, from carrying out the punishment for the woman's sin. He prevented it, but didn't forbid it. 

America has a justice system, every country does. The Bible has laws to follow to. One needs to discern their place.  Unless we are a cop, or judge or otherwise involved in the justice system, it's not our job to run around shooting people and proclaiming judgement upon them.

Now, Christians can be involved in law enforcement and the legal system, and I think they should, if they're called.

But if not...were to love. I carry a gun...and I train with it regularly. But I have no intention of using it except in defense of my family. Some crook wants my wallet...as long as I know that's all he wants he can have it. Not my job to proclaim judgement in him. He can have the wallet, I'll just call the cops and let them deal with it.

[R. Hartono]

7 minutes ago, The_Patriot21 said:

Always a fine line. Yes, people should be held accountable for their actions. No, christians shouldn't just bend over and cower. Yes, christians can own guns and can defend themselves.

But there's a difference between defending oneself, and taking the law into our own hands. We arnt vigilantes. Even with the adulterous woman, Jesus didn't break the law. Nor did he forbid anyone there, from carrying out the punishment for the woman's sin. He prevented it, but didn't forbid it. 

America has a justice system, every country does. The Bible has laws to follow to. One needs to discern their place.  Unless we are a cop, or judge or otherwise involved in the justice system, it's not our job to run around shooting people and proclaiming judgement upon them.

Now, Christians can be involved in law enforcement and the legal system, and I think they should, if they're called.

But if not...were to love. I carry a gun...and I train with it regularly. But I have no intention of using it except in defense of my family. Some crook wants my wallet...as long as I know that's all he wants he can have it. Not my job to proclaim judgement in him. He can have the wallet, I'll just call the cops and let them deal with it.

But Paul didnt carry any weapon how bout that ?

Edited March 18, 2023 by R. Hartono

[Ogner]

I think it would be best if God start over. A human did create this mess and God must cleaned up. Otherwise all this madness will just keeps going on. Anyway, to put up with this unreasonable.

I guess people all are hopeless.

Edited March 18, 2023 by Ogner

[Logostician]

I have a CCW license.  And I utilize it in public.  I also am part of my church's security team.  And I carry at my church.  I rarely think of self defense.  I think of defending others in life threatening situations.  If a Satan inspired potential mass murderer comes into my church and threatens my congregation, I will drop him.  I have already thought this through, and will not be caught off guard, or hesitate.  Jesus knows this.  We've talked about it.

[R. Hartono]

25 minutes ago, Logostician said:

I have a CCW license.  And I utilize it in public.  I also am part of my church's security team.  And I carry at my church.  I rarely think of self defense.  I think of defending others in life threatening situations.  If a Satan inspired potential mass murderer comes into my church and threatens my congregation, I will drop him.  I have already thought this through, and will not be caught off guard, or hesitate.  Jesus knows this.  We've talked about it.

I guess so.