Rightly Dividing the Word of Truth

[Anne2]

On 4/24/2023 at 1:47 PM, FreeGrace said:

New International Version
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

English Standard Version
For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Berean Standard Bible
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Berean Literal Bible
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those indeed perishing, but to us being saved it is the power of God.
New American Standard Bible
For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

King James Bible
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

I guess the KJV translators may not have been very familiar with the 3 tenses of salvation.

Past tense salvation:  we HAVE BEEN SAVED from the penalty of sin.  Justification

Present tense salvation:  we ARE BEING SAVED from the power of sin.  Sanctification

Future tense salvation:  we WILL BE SAVED from the presence of sin.  Glorification

It is clear from John 5:24 that the MOMENT one believes, they present tense POSSESS eternal life, and John 10:28 says that those Jesus gives eternal life to shall NEVER PERISH.

So, from the moment of saving faith in Christ, the person cannot perish.  They are eternally saved.

So I would say the verse is referring to sanctification.

or this?

1Co 15:26  The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

[JimmyB]

On 5/7/2023 at 6:30 AM, ChristB4us said:

Did Paul speak or write in the NIV or any other modern bible's today's English?

Did Paul speak or write in German or another foreign language that was not Greek nor Hebrew?

So that standard of judgment is moot.

The KJV is not a perfect bible but it has kept the meat of His words that other modern Bibles has not, but only the Lord can show that to you, the differences and the "meat" for discerning good and evil as kept in the KJV.

Thank you for participating but I believe you picked up that standard of judgment from anti-KJVers.  They were not really thinking about how they were judging either.

 

There is nothing valid in your claim that the KJV is better than modern translations.  It has not transmitted the ancient sources as clearly or as accurately as many other translations.  Only the Lord can show that to you.  I pray that He will!

[JimmyB]

On 5/7/2023 at 6:39 AM, ChristB4us said:

I do not think you nor I can find who is the founder and the authority of KJVO. It could very well be named as such for being in opposition of those who rely only on the KJV.

As for other Bible versions, one should wonder why nobody is insisting on using only that version and that is because anti-KJVers has been saying that not all Bibles are saying the same thing ( even though they say the KJV is a good Bibles but they want a Bible in today's English as if the Lord cannot help them understand it & I can just fine, thanks to Him )

As for the KJV being the word of God, it is not perfectly translated into English but the message and the meat for discerning good and evil is there for us to follow Him by.

That is what is important in keeping the faith which is the good fight, but that does not mean those who use the KJV can never be in any false teaching because I have come across a few and when I correct them in that KJV, one went to Bible NET and so not every one that claims they only use the KJV, are actually using it only when confronted with false teachings.

Again it is on God to cause the increase, but scripture is for reproof and correction.  Take the meat away in a verse can sow doubts in the other meat kept in that modern Bible version, but when you rely on Him to help see this truth that the KJV does not, you may find yourself relying only on the KJV for ALL the meat in His words when modern Bibles has changed the meat for how false teachings thrive on.

You may some day find yourself relying on a good modern translation for ALL the "meat" in His words.  The KJV, written in a now-dead language, is very often re-interpreted by people "on the fly" to justify teachings that they thrive on.

What is it about modern research and scholarship that is such a problem for you?

[ChristB4us]

3 hours ago, Arial said:

You are making a lot of felonious assumptions based on what, if looked at closely, is a form of legalism---which always says our works contribute to our salvation by putting the judgement solely on our works and not Christ. What you present is simply the same thing in the negative. Don't do this and don't do that otherwise your faith is not in Christ to complete the good work He has begun in you, but rather in---of all things---not making promises.

If  you have read and understood anything I have posted anywhere on the forum, you would know that I made no promises to Jesus or commitment to follow Him, I just do follow Him, because I believe what the Bible says about Him and that He alone is the way to salvation, and this is through faith alone.

I am not concerned with what Promise Keepers believes or is doing. It has nothing to do with me. And honestly, neither do you. Unless they make a statement that we make a promise to Jesus and keeping it is the way in which we are saved. Short of that, you do not know why they do what they do. In any case there are other errors being taught in the church much more concerning, and one's focus should not be placed completely in one place. Otherwise the focus on that thing becomes what we are always looking to and at, rather than growing in the knowledge of God and Christ.

I was addressing your position on the issue as you seem to see nothing wrong with making promises or commitments to Jesus Christ, but I am glad for your sake that you just follow Him rather than by such a yoke of bondage.

The fact that you are not concerned about Promise Keepers and do not see the evil in the court system of swearing on the Bible to tell the whole truth so "help ye God" is the issue of what I am addressing.

I have heard believers that were in it as accusing me of being legalistic but placing a vow on yourself is putting them under the law.

I had attended 2 Bible studies for adults.  One group had men in it that went to the PK convention in Pittsburgh and said that they did not make promises to God for they knew better than that, but to make promises with men, with each other to hold us accountable to those promises.   

The other group that went to the same PK convention in Pittsburgh said the opposite.  They said that men cannot always be there to help you keep your promise for why they made promises to God only.

They say that because I was not there, I cannot say anything about it.  One does not have to go to that PK convention but to read about what it is all about;  and it is about 7 promises that a Christian makes to men and to God.

And no, the thought never occurred to me to get those men together from both groups until now.

Anyway, before all of this had occurred, I had picked up a habit to cuss out at the warehouse when nobody was around.

One day I came across a pamphlet from Bill Rudge Ministries that used scriptures to convict me of the words of my mouth, BUT in the back of that pamphlet, it led me to make a covenant with my mouth which I had applied by not cussing out at the warehouse any more.

The very next day I was worse than I ever was before.  Devilish thoughts were in my head as accusing me of not being His for He would have helped me to keep my covenant with my mouth.  I stopped listening to those negative thoughts but I was truly at my wits end and so I prayed "Why aren't you helping me.  You know I do not want to do this."

Then a small still voice spoke to me, not audible, but He said" You made the covenant.  You said you were going to do it.  I made the Covenant and I said I am going to do it and all I ask from you is to believe in Me."

I was humbled that day but I still needed to apply the reproof further in my life.

When PK broke out in the valley, I tried to warn one of the 2 Bible study groups and a Catholic mason spoke up and said "isn't a commitment to follow Christ like a promise?" he paused and then said, "Sure it is."

That was then that Jesus helped me to see I needed to apply that to that commitment to make Jesus Lord of my life that I had made way back in high school.  I declared this to him but he just got frustrated and mad and spoke no more to me.

It had to take that moment for me to apply that to my commitment to make Jesus Lord of my life as I could not receive this reproof because the notion that the church had led me astray was unfathomable to me, but Jesus finally got through to me.

So He is helping me to stop looking to myself in doing the best I can in following him but instead look to Him and rely on Him all the time for help in following Him.

You may not see the difference but in the eyes of religious men of the world, there is and that is why that is not living by faith in Jesus Christ for all things.  It is utter foolishness for the religious men of the world as they cannot fathom to be so weak to rely on God all the time to just live by faith in Him that He will do His work in us.

And that is why we should only say yes to be yes and no to be no and anything more than that like "I promise.. or I vow" is of evil because we cannot make one hair white or black, let alone do any work of God in us by keeping a promise or a commitment when we are to live by faith in Jesus Christ to do this for us.

 

 

[ChristB4us]

3 hours ago, Arial said:

Keeping a promise is a good thing to do. The RIGHT thing to do. It does not void faith but is the fruit of faith.  It does not mean that someone is not trusting in Christ. If you only mean a particular promise then say what you mean, because the above is pretty much nonsensical at best and misleading at worst.

If you promise not to commit a particular sin or a habitual sin, and you break that promise, you have sinned twice.

if you surrender to Jesus Christ by acknowledging hat you cannot stop sinning and ask for forgiveness and then his help not to do it again, that is living by faith in Jesus Christ.

As long as I keep going back to trying the best I can to keep that commitment to make Jesus Lord of my life to show my appreciation and thankfulness for forgiving me of my sins whenever I fail, I am refusing to rest in Him all the time for help in following Him.

That is why believers cannot do both.  We either look to Him by faith alone or we are looking to ourselves in resorting to our own power in doing His work in us so we can follow Him by the deeds of the law which is not by faith in Jesus Christ.

 

[ChristB4us]

3 hours ago, Arial said:

That then becomes the job of the attorney for the otherside to sort out through the questions he asks. Don't be ridiculous.

 

Do you know why we have that oath in our court system? To keep people from lying under oath, not to keep them from telling the truth under oath. It was put in place way back when people actually had a fear of God, and honor and respect for Him. And if they swore before Him to not lie, they were less likely to lie. It was a binding oath made to the Almighty God which strongly persuaded truth telling. It also set in place if a person was caught lying that penalties could be administered by the law (of the land.) The judge.

 

God doesn't help us tell the truth. He teaches us to tell the truth. And if we are obedient in that we will tell the truth. Our court system has nothing to do with it. ANd here you also imply God has limited power. That He can only defend and help someone if He is allowed to by human courts. Cattywampus reasoning.

 

Depends on what the commitments and promise are.

But that is enough. I am getting nowhere.

Probably seems that way to you when you are not seeing the evil of it nor the fact that they are swearing on the Bible which Jesus said not to even swear at all when making an oath.  Remember making a point about that no swearing thing?

When society and churches has infiltrated our lives with making pledges, oaths, promises, and commitments, how can anyone fathom that they were led astray even in light of Jesus's own words?

And you wonder why Jesus had asked the question, "Will He find faith in all the earth?"

Luke 18:7 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them? 8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth? 9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:

One has to listen to other believers when they talk about keeping their commitments and yet condemn other believers for breaking that commitment and living in sin.  That is not the time to condemn as they are not to do that at all for God will judge that for why many saved believers will be left behind, though they still be saved, but to correct those that err now or excommunicate in the hope it will lead them to repentance before the Bridegroom comes or He will excommunicate them from the Marriage Supper above at the pre great tribulation rapture event.

Granted those left behind will die, but their spirits will be with the Lord in Heaven to await for their resurrection after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonor but still in His House, vessels of wood & earth, to serve the King of kings on earth from all over the world in raising up the generations in His thousand year reign.

As it is, believers can ask Jesus to forgive them for making those bondages that are His to keep and to finish as He will set them free and help them to rest in Him for all things daily and that their joy may be full.

[ChristB4us]

3 hours ago, JimmyB said:

There is nothing valid in your claim that the KJV is better than modern translations.  It has not transmitted the ancient sources as clearly or as accurately as many other translations.  Only the Lord can show that to you.  I pray that He will!

Praying for you in the same, brother.  That is all we can do at a certain point.

[ChristB4us]

3 hours ago, JimmyB said:

You may some day find yourself relying on a good modern translation for ALL the "meat" in His words.  The KJV, written in a now-dead language, is very often re-interpreted by people "on the fly" to justify teachings that they thrive on.

What is it about modern research and scholarship that is such a problem for you?

Tainted by corrupt educational system and not relying on the Lord for His wisdom in understanding His words.

[JimmyB]

17 hours ago, ChristB4us said:

Tainted by corrupt educational system and not relying on the Lord for His wisdom in understanding His words.

Unless you can substantiate this it is just your opinion.  Do you really think that Biblical scholars have been "tainted by corrupt educational system and not relying on the Lord for His wisdom"?  Should uneducated people be doing the translating?

[Anne2]

19 hours ago, ChristB4us said:

Probably seems that way to you when you are not seeing the evil of it nor the fact that they are swearing on the Bible which Jesus said not to even swear at all when making an oath.  Remember making a point about that no swearing thing?

When society and churches has infiltrated our lives with making pledges, oaths, promises, and commitments, how can anyone fathom that they were led astray even in light of Jesus's own words?

 

Thought provoking. Thanks