Rightly Dividing the Word of Truth

[ChristB4us]

On 4/25/2023 at 3:03 PM, JimmyB said:

This is confusing and the last paragraph is an excellent example of a run-on sentence.  What are you trying to say?

Yea, my shortcoming does show sometimes, but I am relying on the Lord to help those that have gone astray to see the truth in His words.

Capisce?  This is why not all Bibles are lining up the truth of John 16:13 with Romans 8:26-27 in that respective Bible.

However the KJV and a few modern bibles do align by noting why the use of "itself" was used instead of "himself" in verse 26 since the he is Jesus Christ in verse 27 as He is the "he" that is actually giving the Holy Spirit's silent intercessions by knowing the mind of the Spirit.

The Holy Spirit cannot give the intercessions directly "himself" when Jesus Christ is the only Mediator between God and men. 1 Timothy 2:5  That is why Jesus has to know the mind of the Spirit to give His silent intercessions to the Father because Jesus, alone is the only Mediator between God & men to be answering our prayers whenever the Father says yes to any prayer request presented by Jesus, whether it be form us, by the Holy Spirit, or even the Son Himself.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me......13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

Yes, Jesus actually meant that which ties in for why He is the only Mediator.

John 16:13 testifies in ALL bible versions that He cannot speak for Himself, from Himself nor on His own authority nor on His own initiative which means that HE cannot turn God's gift of tongues around for His own personal use.

Go ahead and look at your Bible version(s) and read what John 16:13 says.

Scripture cannot go against scripture for why Romans 8:26-27 in most Bible versions do not align with the truth in John 16:13 because the message has been changed.

Whereas the KJV and a few modern Bibles has kept the truth in His words in that the Holy Spirit CANNOT even utter His groanings from Himself either even though we can grieve the Holy Spirit which we have been warned not to do. Ephesians 4:30

[ChristB4us]

On 4/26/2023 at 10:40 AM, JimmyB said:

The King James Bible is just one of many translations.  It is not the Word of God.  IMHO it has had its day.  I much prefer well-researched, well-translated, well-written translations is modern English, such as the NET, the NIV, and the NRSVue.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

John 15:20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

This is prophesied for you to be warned that discernment will be needed to determine which Bible version loved Him to keep His words from those that did not.

To create a Bible version today to have its own copyright, some words have to be added, dropped, and changed for that to happen and so it is not always about making it easier to understand in English when the love of money is the drive for doing this.

Indeed, anti-KJVers testify that not all Bibles are saying the same thing for why some promote seekers to go learn the Greek & Hebrew, but guess what?  They argue over each other's work in translation and so epic fail there.

There were over 50 KJV translators divided into 8 groups where they each had a section of the Bible to do and as they check their own works in that group, they hand it off to have their work checked in other groups.

Their source documents are the ones from Antioch where the disciples studied for a year and where they were first known as Christians.

The documents from Alexandria where poetic licensing and Gnosticism has been known to exist ought to make every Bible loving reader discern that more so and to rely on the Textus Receptus even more.

But only Jesus Christ can prove that to you and so trust Him today as your personal Good Shepherd to show you which Bible loved Him enough to keep His words.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. 23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

[Arial]

4 minutes ago, ChristB4us said:

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

John 15:20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

This is prophesied for you to be warned that discernment will be needed to determine which Bible version loved Him to keep His words from those that did not.

To create a Bible version today to have its own copyright, some words have to be added, dropped, and changed for that to happen and so it is not always about making it easier to understand in English when the love of money is the drive for doing this.

Indeed, anti-KJVers testify that not all Bibles are saying the same thing for why some promote seekers to go learn the Greek & Hebrew, but guess what?  They argue over each other's work in translation and so epic fail there.

There were over 50 KJV translators divided into 8 groups where they each had a section of the Bible to do and as they check their own works in that group, they hand it off to have their work checked in other groups.

Their source documents are the ones from Antioch where the disciples studied for a year and where they were first known as Christians.

The documents from Alexandria where poetic licensing and Gnosticism has been known to exist ought to make every Bible loving reader discern that more so and to rely on the Textus Receptus even more.

But only Jesus Christ can prove that to you and so trust Him today as your personal Good Shepherd to show you which Bible loved Him enough to keep His words.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. 23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

Did you inadvertently throw millions of Christian's under the bus? Judging them by what Bible translation they use rather than what they believe? Did you just make the KJV a requirement of salvation? I may be wrong, but that is what it sounds like to me.

[JimmyB]

21 minutes ago, ChristB4us said:

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

John 15:20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

This is prophesied for you to be warned that discernment will be needed to determine which Bible version loved Him to keep His words from those that did not.

To create a Bible version today to have its own copyright, some words have to be added, dropped, and changed for that to happen and so it is not always about making it easier to understand in English when the love of money is the drive for doing this.

Indeed, anti-KJVers testify that not all Bibles are saying the same thing for why some promote seekers to go learn the Greek & Hebrew, but guess what?  They argue over each other's work in translation and so epic fail there.

There were over 50 KJV translators divided into 8 groups where they each had a section of the Bible to do and as they check their own works in that group, they hand it off to have their work checked in other groups.

Their source documents are the ones from Antioch where the disciples studied for a year and where they were first known as Christians.

The documents from Alexandria where poetic licensing and Gnosticism has been known to exist ought to make every Bible loving reader discern that more so and to rely on the Textus Receptus even more.

But only Jesus Christ can prove that to you and so trust Him today as your personal Good Shepherd to show you which Bible loved Him enough to keep His words.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. 23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

You wrote, "This is prophesied for you to be warned that discernment will be needed to determine which Bible version loved Him to keep His words from those that did not."  Which Bible version "loved Him"?  Do books love us?

You are making no sense.  Even the KJVs available today are copyrighted, as they contain references, maps, concordances, etc. that are the properties of the publishers.

You and others rationalize all kinds of reasons to claim the KJV is pure.  I have news for you: it is not pure!  It was created specifically to codify a secular king's version of Protestantism, which also "just happened" to cement his rule over his territories.

It is not the word of God.  It is nothing more than a fair translation that sounds "pious" to modern ears.  Thankfully it has been replaced by the excellent versions we have today.

[Mr. M]

On 4/24/2023 at 2:59 AM, JohnD said:

Mark 7:7 + Mark 7:13 = Matthew 7:21-23

Human traditions (the traditions of man / ways of man / wisdom of man / understanding of man) are satanic (Matthew 16:23 / John 8:41-45) and confound and confuse and deceive... while making perfect sense to it victims.

Proverbs 14:12 (NKJV)
12 There is a way that seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death.

Proverbs 16:25 (NKJV)
25 There is a way that seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death.

We can't even divide the Word of Truth accurately

2 Timothy 2:15 (NKJV)
15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Look in your Bibles to find the division between Old and New Testaments falls between Malachi 4 and Matthew 1.

Hebrews 9:16–17 (NKJV)
16 For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives.

Jesus died on the cross (Matthew 27:50, Mark 15:37, Luke 23:46, John 19:30).

All leading up to that point was under the Old Testament Law / Old Covenant.

So? What difference does this make?

It separates Legalism from the Grace often carried over into the New Covenant by tradition and teaching.

John 3:16-18, Ephesians 2:8-10 clearly state that faith in Jesus activates his prepaid salvation in our individual accounts. That the Father loves us (John 16:27) and we do the actual work of God only by this faith (John 6:29). Before the cross, "if you do not forgive others, neither will your Heavenly Father forgive you..." (Matthew 6:14-15 / Mark 11:26). ← both before the cross ergo Old Covenant / Old Testament

John 16:13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.

The Holy Spirit, not a translator leads us to truth. How so?

Matthew 7:7 Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.

[ChristB4us]

56 minutes ago, Arial said:

Did you inadvertently throw millions of Christian's under the bus? Judging them by what Bible translation they use rather than what they believe? Did you just make the KJV a requirement of salvation? I may be wrong, but that is what it sounds like to me.

Discipleship as in running that race by faith in Jesus Christ as our personal Good Shepherd & Friend to help us to follow Him is separate from salvation.

When modern bibles changes the "meat" in His words that the KJV has kept to discern good and evil of false teachings, is why I find as I go through all those false teachings by which I find the KJV keeping the meat of His words, is essential for me to abide in Him and His words as His disciples.

So no, it is not a salvation issue unless you are addressing those false teachings that we are not saved yet but in the process of being saved, but it is about discipleship in running that race of abiding in Him as His disciples to be received by Him as that vessel unto honor in His House at the pre great tribulation rapture event.

Those professing believers and former believers found in iniquity are still His, but shall be received & resurrected later on after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonor in his House, vessels of wood & earth per verse 20 of 2 Timothy 2:18-21 for not departing from iniquity.

The vessels unto dishonor are still in His House because they will testify to the power of God in salvation for all those who believe in Jesus Christ, even in His name.

But not every one will be found abiding in Him, let alone be willing to go because their hearts are set on the things of this world and not on the treasures above for why they will not want to leave.  

Luke 14:15-24 KJV

Or think they can go back to their house and bring something valuable with them.

Luke 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. 31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. 32 Remember Lot's wife. 33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.  KJV

We really need His help not to be overcharged and thus ensnared by the cares of this life before the Bridegroom comes if we wish to escape the destruction coming on the third of the earth and the coming great tribulation as a result.

Luke 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. 34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. 35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

[ChristB4us]

On 4/30/2023 at 12:04 PM, JimmyB said:

You wrote, "This is prophesied for you to be warned that discernment will be needed to determine which Bible version loved Him to keep His words from those that did not."  Which Bible version "loved Him"?  Do books love us?

You are making no sense.  Even the KJVs available today are copyrighted, as they contain references, maps, concordances, etc. that are the properties of the publishers.

You and others rationalize all kinds of reasons to claim the KJV is pure.  I have news for you: it is not pure!  It was created specifically to codify a secular king's version of Protestantism, which also "just happened" to cement his rule over his territories.

It is not the word of God.  It is nothing more than a fair translation that sounds "pious" to modern ears.  Thankfully it has been replaced by the excellent versions we have today.

I never said the KJV was perfect.  I had said that the KJV keeps the meat of His words to discern good & evil where other modern Bibles fail to do and thus changed its message to sow doubts in His words for when they take those verses out of context to support false teachings at the expense of other scripture within that modern Bible.

That aside;  how do you apply these verses below when it is a warning from the Father as given by Jesus Christ?  How can that not apply to the Bibles we have?

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

John 15:20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

Although I do not agree with Jack Chick's condemnation of Catholics going to hell, this site is showing an excerpt from a Book by David W. Daniels that is explaining how the three Witnesses in Heaven was originally scripture as extra Biblical sources cited the passage as existing as far back as 200 A.D.

IS 1 JOHN 5:7 NOT IN ANY GREEK MANUSCRIPT BEFORE THE 1600S? IF IT IS TRUE, WHY IS IT IN THE KJV?

So is that not enough evidence to lean on Jesus Christ to discern which Bible is keeping the meat as in the actual message of His words because of 1 John 5:7?

Even without the extra biblical sources, one should have been able to discern that the Textus Receptus is correct because if you take the verse 7 out, how is the witness of God's greater then men's in verse 9 below?

1 John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.  KJV

Remember that the lost books of the Bible were not accepted as scripture because they were running against the accepted scripture?  And yet not all modern bibles are saying the same thing.  Should we not discern which Bible loved Him enough to not change the meanings of His words for us to follow Him by in discerning good and evil by the meat of His words?

May the Lord help you decide.

[JimmyB]

4 minutes ago, ChristB4us said:

I never said the KJV was perfect.  I had said that the KJV keeps the meat of His words to discern good & evil where other modern Bibles fail to do and thus changed its message to sow doubts in His words for when they take those verses out of context to support false teachings at the expense of other scripture within that modern Bible.

That aside;  how do you apply these verses below when it is a warning from the Father as given by Jesus Christ?  How can that not apply to the Bibles we have?

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

John 15:20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

Although I do not agree with Jack Chick's condemnation of Catholics going to hell, this site is showing an excerpt from a Book by David W. Daniels that is explaining how the three Witnesses in Heaven was originally scripture as extra Biblical sources cited the passage as existing as far back as 200 A.D.

IS 1 JOHN 5:7 NOT IN ANY GREEK MANUSCRIPT BEFORE THE 1600S? IF IT IS TRUE, WHY IS IT IN THE KJV?

So is that not enough evidence to lean on Jesus Christ to discern which Bible is keeping the meat as in the actual message of His words because of 1 John 5:7?

Even without the extra biblical sources, one should have been able to discern that the Textus Receptus is correct because if you take the verse 7 out, how is the witness of God's greater then men's in verse 9 below?

1 John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.  KJV

Remember that the lost books of the Bible were not accepted as scripture because they were running against the accepted scripture?  And yet not all modern bibles are saying the same thing.  Should we not discern which Bible loved Him enough to not change the meanings of His words for us to follow Him by in discerning good and evil by the meat of His words?

May the Lord help you decide.

Your mind set is clear when you write "Should we not discern which Bible loved Him enough to not change the meanings of His words for us to follow Him by in discerning good and evil by the meat of His words?"

Why do you think that a group of translators, chosen by a secular king to promote his personal version of Protestantism, were infallible?  They created a translation, based on earlier translations and a limited set of sources, for a political purpose.  The florid language sounds "holy" to modern ears, but the source languages did not have the same quality.

Bible translation, as is true with many other fields, has progressed significantly in four centuries.  There are more source documents, a better understanding of the ancient languages, a better understanding of how those words were understood by the original hearers, and a sensitive feeling for how those words and concepts are communicated to modern readers.  Additionally, most modern translations are reviewed by committees to insure that there is no sectarian bias.

They are clearly better than the King James translation.

[ChristB4us]

On 5/2/2023 at 10:43 AM, JimmyB said:

Your mind set is clear when you write "Should we not discern which Bible loved Him enough to not change the meanings of His words for us to follow Him by in discerning good and evil by the meat of His words?"

Why do you think that a group of translators, chosen by a secular king to promote his personal version of Protestantism, were infallible?  They created a translation, based on earlier translations and a limited set of sources, for a political purpose.  The florid language sounds "holy" to modern ears, but the source languages did not have the same quality.

Bible translation, as is true with many other fields, has progressed significantly in four centuries.  There are more source documents, a better understanding of the ancient languages, a better understanding of how those words were understood by the original hearers, and a sensitive feeling for how those words and concepts are communicated to modern readers.  Additionally, most modern translations are reviewed by committees to insure that there is no sectarian bias.

They are clearly better than the King James translation.

At this link which is to give a report as if to shame KJVO people, is the preface to the King James by the translators.

THE EMBARRASSING PREFACE TO THE KING JAMES VERSION

At that second link at that web page entitled " “The Translators to the Reader.”  you can read the excerpts as referenced for that article for yourself.

I agree with the KJV translators that the KJV is not a perfect bible, but the majority of the source documents of the KJV is from Antioch where the disciples studied for a year for why they were first called Christians; hence what made up the majority of the Textus Receptus.,

Acts 11:26And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

The majority of manuscripts for modern bibles are the source documents from Alexandria where poetic licensing & Gnosticism has been known to exist.

When the Gnostics take opportunity to delve into Christians, Judaism and pagans circles, you can expect their teachings to be infiltrating those circles.

THE SCHOOL OF ALEXANDRIA AND THE GNOSTICS

"Gnosticism is a modern term, not attested to in antiquity. Even the term gnostic (Gr., gnostikos "knower"), as found in patristic writings, was never used to indicate a general spiritual movement but rather applied only to a single, particular sect.

Gnosticism designates a complex religious and philosophical movement that started probably before Christianity and flourished from about 100 to 700 A.D. There were many Christian, Jewish and pagan Gnostic sects that stressed salvation through a secret "knowledge" or "Gnosis." The term "Gnostics" was first applied by second and third century patristic writers to a large number of teachers, such as Valentinus, Basilides and many others; all of whom were regarded by the Church Fathers as Christian heretics. Although Marcion and his community stand somewhat apart, certain features are common to the movement as a whole.

Today gnosticism is defined as a religion in its own right, whose myths state that the Unknown God is not the creator (Demiurge, YHVH); that the world is an error, the consequence of a fall and split within the deity; and that man, spiritual man, is alien to the natural world and related to the deity, and he becomes conscious of his deepest self when he hears the word of revelation. Unconsciousness, not sin or guilt, is the cause of evil."

I disagree with the first bold statement in the quote as I believe it was a spiritual movement by how they apply tongues that comes with no interpretation for private use aka secret knowledge.  it is no wonder why the Alexandria manuscripts are the oldest manuscripts because they were not using them in wearing them out but fasting and praying in tongues for their "self edification".

Paul even had to deal with these Gnostics coming into the Christian circles back then by encouraging believers to study the scripture rather than going off by way of the Gnostics to use tongues for private use as if they are means for "self edification", & revelation by secret knowledge.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

The author and historians may not see it but obviously it was a spiritual movement when you take into consideration how they get these revelations when he is conscious of his deepest self as if gained by meditation, fasting, & speaking in tongues.

Was it not the apostate movement at the Toronto's Blessings that once said "We do not need the Word of God any more.  All we need is the Spirit!" ?

Anyway, I can see how they can rewrite certain key verses in the scripture that they can pull out of context in using for their spiritual movement.

I prefer to rely on the documents from Antioch.

[Arial]

1 hour ago, ChristB4us said:

The majority of manuscripts for modern bibles are the source documents from Alexandria where poetic licensing & Gnosticism has been known to exist.

NT Textual Criticism

Currently we possess over 5700 manuscripts of  the NT in Greek,

Plus thousands more manuscripts in other languages, over 10,ooo in Latin, and thousands more in Coptic, Syriac, Gothic, Ethiopic, Armenian, and other languages.

We also have countless number of citations of the NT preserved in the writings of the ECF--enough to reconstruct the entire NT text just from these.

Some of the manuscripts are from as early  as the second century.

All are compared to see where there are differences, and those differences determined by the content as to whether any truth is changed. Most are insignificant as they don't change any truth.

To suggest that poetic license and gnosticism tampered with God's word is to speak of what one does not know. That is what non-Christians do to try and disprove the Bible.

Edited May 3, 2023 by Arial