Rightly Dividing the Word of Truth

[ChristB4us]

2 hours ago, Arial said:

Only if one decides to take it that way for whatever reason. But how is making a promise but not swearing by it not equal yes or no?

I would address the scriptures you quote but they have nothing to do with what Jesus was saying in Matt 5. I will say that in Gal the law Paul is speaking of is the Sinai Covenant Law and its being brought into justification by faith alone as a necessary part of salvation. It is not about all the promises we make being the law. As I have pointed out before but is ignored.

There is a difference to saying "Yes" from saying "Yes, I promise."

I would believe Jesus saying let your yes be yes and your no be no is excluding any other words as being added to that thus speaking against making promises.

If a child does not believe his father at his word because he kept breaking his word and so the father felt he needed to assure his child by adding yes I promise to assure him, what does that say?  The next time he breaks his word, he commits double the sin by breaking his promise also.

No matter how much the spirit is willing, the flesh is weak.  There are things outside of our control and being good and doing good is one of them when we are to be living by faith in Jesus Christ to help us to follow Him daily in being good and doing good.

Some will try to be cute and say God be willing, I promise to do this.  No.  If you promise, that is your will.  To say God be willing, we will do this or that, then that is relying on God to do that pending His will.  He may want us to do something else or go a different route.

"I am sorry son but I made a promise to take you to the ball game and so that is why  am leaving your mother here whom is very sick suddenly and all by herself when I know I should be tending to her needs.  But promise is a promise." 

~~ Not happening.  This is why idle promises should not be made.

[Arial]

On 5/4/2023 at 11:14 AM, ChristB4us said:

Feel free to actually discuss what the Father was warning us about through Jesus Christ and not just say He was not talking about Bible versions.

I discussed it all. You confuse disagreeing with you with not discussing. It indicates a not listening on the part of the one receiving the discussion. I think you are dead wrong about what you say Jesus is talking about in those scriptures. I think you apply scriptures and apply them wrongly, to other scriptures on an entirely different subject. You are dividing the word, which is understandable I guess since the KJV says we are to do that. Ha, ha, ha.

 

On 5/4/2023 at 11:14 AM, ChristB4us said:

Then what was He talking about if not keeping His sayings and the saying of His disciples which would involve writings?  John 14:23-24 & John 15:20

Well, brother, one has to correctly understand what He is saying. Those scriptures all by themselves do not support whatever you say Jesus is saying but what He is actually saying.

 

On 5/4/2023 at 11:14 AM, ChristB4us said:

I would not have need to go to Amos 8th reference when bible versions are not all saying the same thing which is why believers today have a hunger for more of God in these apostate movement of the "spirit" looking for the supernatural & that emotional high rather than getting close to Him in His words.

That is not why they hunger for more of God. And in fact those involved in what you say are not hungering for more of God but more than God---more than what He has given us. Mostly however it is done in ignorance.

The rest of your post is just more scripture quoting and applying it to nothing.

[ChristB4us]

1 hour ago, Arial said:

I know what I say about this will be in vain where you are concerned. In fact I have said it before and it isn't even considered or looked at. That is the problem when we get so invested in our own viewpoint that we become as deaf as idols made of wood to the words or ideas of others. Heaven forbid we see we may have been wrong, let alone ever admit it publicly. And it is common, that old man alive and well inside us.

Well, I am reading it and saying that you should consider the opposite as it can happen to you too.

So let us both rely on God to cause the increase as any iron sharpening iron is His ministry, right?

Quote

And the KJV is not the only translation that says "yoke of bondage or slavery." The only ones I have found that don't are paraphrases and even then the are not changing the meaning. But what makes you combine Gal 5:1 with Numbers 30:2? They are not even talking about the same thing. You make them to be simply by the fact that a form of the word "bond" occurs in both. That is not handling the Word correctly but rather dividing it.

KJV does not use the term slavery but some modern bibles do.

The reason I combined Galatians 5:1 with Numbers 30:2 is that Numbers 30:2 testify that making a vow is making a bond thus a bondage to finish whereas Galatians 5:1 speaks of standing fast in that liberty and enter not into that yoke of bondage again.

Quote

Why do you say circumcision is the smallest letter of the Law? (Plus "entitled" is not the correct word, but rather "obligated". Using it as a means of salvation puts one under the whole Law and out from under grace.)  Paul is not talking about making oaths he is dealing with an issue that confronted the Galatians. There were Jews and Judaizers infiltrating saying that yes Christ is the Savior but He is nothing unless you are also circumcised. They were presenting a Christ who was not sufficient. It was hard for them to let go of the Law. Paul is saying if you think that it is necessary to do any part of the Law in order to be saved, then you must keep the whole Law. The liberty is being out from under the Law, and therefore out from under its curse. Faith in Christ alone. ANd it is the Law that was a yoke of bondage that no one could carry, because it had to be kept perfectly and as sinners we cannot do that.

Granted in regards to salvation, but the law was used under the Old Covenant as obtaining righteousness by it ( making oneself good or better ) and not just obtaining salvation.

As for the circumcision being the smallest letter of the law, it is a one time done deal, quick and over with, albeit painful in recovering for a short time.

A promise/commitment to follow Jesus Christ for the assurance of salvation as some evangelicals has put that out there by saying, If you are not sure you are saved, come forward and make a commitment to follow Christ" which is the opposite of what they have preached, "all those who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." should be noted.

Is it any wonder why Billy Graham doubted Jesus would receive him in Heaven because he was not always a good Christian?

Tony Snow Interviews Billy Graham

"SNOW: When you get to Heaven, who's going to speak first, you or God?

GRAHAM: When I get there, I'm sure that Jesus is going to say that he
will welcome me. But I think that he's going to say: Well done, our good
and faithful servant. Or he may say: You're in the wrong place.

SNOW: You really worry that you may be told you're in the wrong place?

GRAHAM: Yes, because I have not -- I'm not a righteous man. People put
me up on a pedestal that I don't belong in my personal life. And they
think that I'm better than I am. I'm not the good man that people think
I am. Newspapers and magazines and television have made me out to be a
saint. I'm not. I'm not a Mother Teresa. And I feel that very much." ~~~ end of quote

By that commitment to follow Christ to gain the assurance of salvation is the knowledge of sin for why Billy Graham doubted his salvation.  ( he is saved still and in Heaven but unless he repented of it in asking for forgiveness and setting him free from that vain yoke of bondage to rest in Him that He is saved as He will help him to follow Him, he will wish he had not made that commitment to follow Christ as it is a work that denies Him as Saviour for why he is at risk of being left behind to be resurrected after the great tribulation instead )

Best stop here.  Continue in another post God be willing.

 

[ChristB4us]

1 hour ago, Arial said:

There were laws concerning oaths and vows in the OT and they had to do with making a vow to God. But that is not what Paul was talking about and it does not prohibit all oaths and vows. We see Paul himself making them.

It does not make null and void what was said in the second verse. You have simply misunderstood Matt 5:33-37 and carry that misunderstanding all the way through the rest of scripture. You misunderstand what Paul is even speaking about in Gal 5 because of the poor wording of the KJV in Matt without bothering to justify what you think it is saying with the rest of scripture to see if maybe it is the wording that is off.

Look at this and then continue promoting that what you say is correct.

"So Paul still remained a good while. Then he took leave of the brethren and sailed for Syria, and Priscilla and Aquila were with him. He had his hair cut off at Cenchrea, for he had taken a vow. And he came to Ephesus, and left them there; but he himself entered the synagogue and reasoned with the Jews" (Acts 18:18-19)

"Had taken a vow" being the operative word in having finished that vow.

Paul knows to finish those vows and not leave it unfinished.

The reason Paul did it at this time in Acts 21:18-26 was to have a captive audience with those men in his means to spread the gospel.

Acts 21:18 And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present. 19 And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry. 20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law: 21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs. 22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come. 23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them; 24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.

25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.

26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them.

Here is why Paul did it.

1 Corinthians 9:19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more. 20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; 21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. 22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. 23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

Promises & commitments today are being made as broad and opened ended that it can never be said it is finished.

Promises to be a good husband and a good father in the PK program can never be truly finished.

The commitment to follow Christ can never be truly finished.

They both speak of the believer and not of their faith in Jesus Christ for those things. 

You cannot do both.  Narcotics Anonymous & Alcoholic Anonymous can pick their own different higher power and strive to keep that commitment to stay sober. When they keep that commitment, they reward them and praise then because they kept that commitment or they lead others to believe.  It is their commitment and so they did it and not the higher power of their choice.

So even if they pick Jesus Christ as their higher power, in the eyes of that group in having chosen a different higher powers, no credit is given to Jesus Christ but to the one that kept that commitment.

This is why they worship Him in vain teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

[ChristB4us]

1 hour ago, Arial said:

I discussed it all. You confuse disagreeing with you with not discussing. It indicates a not listening on the part of the one receiving the discussion. I think you are dead wrong about what you say Jesus is talking about in those scriptures. I think you apply scriptures and apply them wrongly, to other scriptures on an entirely different subject. You are dividing the word, which is understandable I guess since the KJV says we are to do that. Ha, ha, ha.

 

Well, brother, one has to correctly understand what He is saying. Those scriptures all by themselves do not support whatever you say Jesus is saying but what He is actually saying.

 

That is not why they hunger for more of God. And in fact those involved in what you say are not hungering for more of God but more than God---more than what He has given us. Mostly however it is done in ignorance.

The rest of your post is just more scripture quoting and applying it to nothing.

Disagreeing is one thing but dismissal of what Jesus was talking about is another.  That is not discussing it when by explaining what the Father was warning us about would be considered discussing it.

Scripture is to have the truth be rightly divided and so it cannot apply to nothing.  If I was applying it to mean something whereas you see it as meaning something else, then that is how you correct someone by the scriptures.  Not just saying it does not apply or applies to nothing.

Those who say they have a hunger for more of God are usually referring to a supernatural  phenomenon that they are actually hungering for to happen to them again.

If they want to get closer to Jesus, they should learn of Him through His words rather than that visiting phenomenon by a sign.

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

I do not want this to become an argument and so if you have nothing further of substance to progress the direction of our discussion to benefit me as I do seek for you, then we should take a break from it then.

[Arial]

On 5/5/2023 at 12:01 PM, ChristB4us said:

In your quoted reference, the ESV actually says you have sworn by the oath.

But the KJV, and your 3 versions all confirmed about what having an oath mean; to perform as in fulfill as in finish your oath before Jesus said, BUT I say unto you, not even sear at all.

Matthew 5:33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: 34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:

So Jesus was talking about how people will perform their oaths unto the Lord, BUT He said not to do that; even by swearing by it which is the custom of showing sincerity in performing or fulfilling or finishing that vow or oath.

I agree that we should not need to make a promise but just say yes or no in whatever we are asked to do, BUT that is the point of Jesus's speaking against making an oath or a vow and not to even swear by it.

However the point of verse 36 of you cannot make one hair white or black, means what?  Who can make your hair the real white or the real black without hair coloring?  God.  So in other words, do not make promises that is for God to do.

The Promise Keepers's program is about 7 promises that a Christian man will make to be a good husband, a good father, and a good leader in the community.

Now if righteousness can come from the law like making such a promise in making us good like that, Christ has died in vain.  Right?  

And yet Promise Keepers is fizzling out.  The wife of the founder of promise Keepers when PK was in full swing across the nation at one time has revealed that he had not been keeping his promises of late.

By those promises is the knowledge of sin. By the deeds of the law is the knowledge of sin.  No one will be justified by those promises and it is a false witness to call oneself a Promise Keeper when they are not.

Yet they teach that when PK fail, they can ask for forgiveness and keep on trying thus making Christ a minister of sin which God forbids.

Galatians 2:15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. 17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. 18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. 19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. 20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain

Not to mention how a false witness can defile a man.

Matthew 15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. 19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: 20 These are the things which defile a man:

Promise Keepers is known as a movement of men as it is a commandment of men.

Matthew 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, 8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

So you agree that we should not be making promises and yet you continue not to see the CEV as teaching the opposite of what Jesus is saying by the KJV and those 3 modern Bibles you had referenced?  Do check again in discernment with Him.

If what you are talking about is works righteousness then I agree with you. After all this time it now looks like that is what you have been trying to say. That message was completely lost by making it about what version of the Bible a person is using and the KJV being superior, the others changing the message. Since you made that your premise and focus, that was what I was debating against. The simple fact that we can not earn our salvation by making and keeping promises was completely lost in the mud. Why make it about Bible translations?!

[ChristB4us]

On 5/5/2023 at 10:34 AM, JimmyB said:

Paul did not speak or write in KJV Englyshe, so your claim that what the KJV words is what Paul was saying is laughable!

Did Paul speak or write in the NIV or any other modern bible's today's English?

Did Paul speak or write in German or another foreign language that was not Greek nor Hebrew?

So that standard of judgment is moot.

The KJV is not a perfect bible but it has kept the meat of His words that other modern Bibles has not, but only the Lord can show that to you, the differences and the "meat" for discerning good and evil as kept in the KJV.

Thank you for participating but I believe you picked up that standard of judgment from anti-KJVers.  They were not really thinking about how they were judging either.

 

[ChristB4us]

On 5/5/2023 at 10:43 AM, JimmyB said:

Can you spell "rationalization"?

You believe that the KJV is the words of God, not for any logical reason, but because it fits your personal concept of what the Bible should be.  There are others, including myself, who believe that there is no perfect translation, and that the best one is the one that speaks most clearly in our native language.

I don't know a single person who is an NIVO or an NRSVO or an NETO or any other "O".  It makes zero sense to think that the KJV translators had perfect sources or were infallible or had perfect understanding or ...

I do not think you nor I can find who is the founder and the authority of KJVO. It could very well be named as such for being in opposition of those who rely only on the KJV.

As for other Bible versions, one should wonder why nobody is insisting on using only that version and that is because anti-KJVers has been saying that not all Bibles are saying the same thing ( even though they say the KJV is a good Bibles but they want a Bible in today's English as if the Lord cannot help them understand it & I can just fine, thanks to Him )

As for the KJV being the word of God, it is not perfectly translated into English but the message and the meat for discerning good and evil is there for us to follow Him by.

That is what is important in keeping the faith which is the good fight, but that does not mean those who use the KJV can never be in any false teaching because I have come across a few and when I correct them in that KJV, one went to Bible NET and so not every one that claims they only use the KJV, are actually using it only when confronted with false teachings.

Again it is on God to cause the increase, but scripture is for reproof and correction.  Take the meat away in a verse can sow doubts in the other meat kept in that modern Bible version, but when you rely on Him to help see this truth that the KJV does not, you may find yourself relying only on the KJV for ALL the meat in His words when modern Bibles has changed the meat for how false teachings thrive on.

[kwikphilly]

39 minutes ago, Arial said:

If what you are talking about is works righteousness then I agree with you. After all this time it now looks like that is what you have been trying to say. That message was completely lost by making it about what version of the Bible a person is using and the KJV being superior, the others changing the message. Since you made that your premise and focus, that was what I was debating against. The simple fact that we can not earn our salvation by making and keeping promises was completely lost in the mud. Why make it about Bible translations?!

Blessings Arial

Amen!Funny,I do like KJV though I usually parallel read with quite a few versions ....I rarely see such awful differences in translations,nothing that cannot be reconciled easily enough by studying full context ( that is often a problem,isn't it? Picking verses out of context!)

Anyway,Enjoyed your posts- the crux of the matter is indeed that Salvation cannot be earned by keeping promises,vows or any way at all except the WAY,the One Way,the Truth & the Life!!!!

Thanks for your contributions Sister

With love in Christ, Kwik

[ChristB4us]

38 minutes ago, Arial said:

If what you are talking about is works righteousness then I agree with you. After all this time it now looks like that is what you have been trying to say. That message was completely lost by making it about what version of the Bible a person is using and the KJV being superior, the others changing the message. Since you made that your premise and focus, that was what I was debating against. The simple fact that we can not earn our salvation by making and keeping promises was completely lost in the mud. Why make it about Bible translations?!

The problem here is that you only apply this warning towards obtaining salvation when it is about any works of righteousness by the law to make oneself good or to do good as well, when we are to rely on Him to finish His work in us to His glory.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

You cannot do His work in us by keeping a promise or a commitment either.

Galatians 5:1Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

The CEV does not teach that but the opposite. 

In a society that leads us to pledge an allegiance to the flag and swear on the Bible to tell the truth on the witness stand "so help ye God" where at times, you will be held in contempt of court for not answering questions in a yes or no response even though it is not always a yes or no response, thus the court is preventing God to help you tell the whole truth, thus making you break your oath, goes amiss.

God cannot help any one keep their oaths or promises, anyway when they have to do all that comes out of their mouths  Numbers 30:2 and that is why God warns us not to make hasty vows because that is the works of our hands. Ecclesiastes 5:4-7

This is why Jesus is warning believers not to make any oath because we cannot make anything good in regards to us or to do good by the deeds of the law when it is on Jesus Christ to do His work in us to his glory for why the just shall live by faith.

Thank you for sharing.  May God bless you.