Q & A from Discussing Jesus section of Quora Digest

[JohnD]

 

If the Holy Spirit is meant to lead us to the truth, then how come there are so many disagreements in Christianity over things like salvation, heaven and hell, the rapture, the second coming, etc.?

Because people believe and follow the traditions of man rather than the interpretation of the scriptures by the Holy Spirit who wrote them through the writing prophets.

2 Peter 1:20–21 (know this first)

Jesus warned that the traditions of man nullify the scriptures (Mark 7:13) and make even the worship of him in vain (Mark 7:7). Yet most of Christendom is steeped in human tradition, human interpretation of the scriptures.

Proverbs 14:12 / Proverbs 16:25 / Matthew 16:23 / John 8:41–45 also indicate how evil and foolish the thinking and ways of man are.

[Mr. M]

7 hours ago, JohnD said:

 

If the Holy Spirit is meant to lead us to the truth, then how come there are so many disagreements in Christianity over things like salvation, heaven and hell, the rapture, the second coming, etc.?

Because people believe and follow the traditions of man rather than the interpretation of the scriptures by the Holy Spirit who wrote them through the writing prophets.

2 Peter 1:20–21 (know this first)

Jesus warned that the traditions of man nullify the scriptures (Mark 7:13) and make even the worship of him in vain (Mark 7:7). Yet most of Christendom is steeped in human tradition, human interpretation of the scriptures.

Proverbs 14:12 / Proverbs 16:25 / Matthew 16:23 / John 8:41–45 also indicate how evil and foolish the thinking and ways of man are.

John 3:

27 John answered and said,

A man can receive nothing unless it has been given to him from heaven.

31 He who comes from above is above all; he who is of the earth is earthly

and speaks of the earth. He who comes from heaven is above all.

1 Corinthians 2:

13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches

but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 

14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God,

for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, 

because they are spiritually discerned.

John 8:23 And He said to them, You are from beneath; I am from above. 

You are of this world; I am not of this world.

The Spirit gives illumination, theology gives indoctrination. The Paraclete.

[BibleWords]

7 hours ago, JohnD said:

 

If the Holy Spirit is meant to lead us to the truth, then how come there are so many disagreements in Christianity over things like salvation, heaven and hell, the rapture, the second coming, etc.?

Because people believe and follow the traditions of man rather than the interpretation of the scriptures by the Holy Spirit who wrote them through the writing prophets.

2 Peter 1:20–21 (know this first)

Jesus warned that the traditions of man nullify the scriptures (Mark 7:13) and make even the worship of him in vain (Mark 7:7). Yet most of Christendom is steeped in human tradition, human interpretation of the scriptures.

Proverbs 14:12 / Proverbs 16:25 / Matthew 16:23 / John 8:41–45 also indicate how evil and foolish the thinking and ways of man are.

I have been teaching a class on 2 Pet. this quarter in Sunday School, and you are right.  Peter was adamant about recognizing and rejecting false teachers.

Every thing must be run through the great dividing test of the Word of God.  We cannot be too careful about what we allow into our minds and hearts.

Matt. 7:15–Jesus said, “Beware of false prophets”.

The word “beware” ought to tell us something. It indicates danger or risk.

We as believers and followers of Jesus must pay attention to what we hear and who we listen too.

Always test everything by the Word of God.

[teddyv]

10 hours ago, JohnD said:

 

If the Holy Spirit is meant to lead us to the truth, then how come there are so many disagreements in Christianity over things like salvation, heaven and hell, the rapture, the second coming, etc.?

Because people believe and follow the traditions of man rather than the interpretation of the scriptures by the Holy Spirit who wrote them through the writing prophets.

2 Peter 1:20–21 (know this first)

Jesus warned that the traditions of man nullify the scriptures (Mark 7:13) and make even the worship of him in vain (Mark 7:7). Yet most of Christendom is steeped in human tradition, human interpretation of the scriptures.

Proverbs 14:12 / Proverbs 16:25 / Matthew 16:23 / John 8:41–45 also indicate how evil and foolish the thinking and ways of man are.

Christians constantly claim they are interpreting Scripture through the power of the Holy Spirit (from the ECF to today). Therefore the answer given becomes like a "no true Scotsman" fallacy and is of little help. 

There has to be some objective means to ascertain the "proper" interpretation. I would argue for the general agreements on the fundamentals of Christianity, as discerned over the centuries and stated in the historical creeds. That's a far more objective metric, if perhaps consensus-based.

[FJK]

28 minutes ago, teddyv said:

There has to be some objective means to ascertain the "proper" interpretation.

There is (depending on what you call "objective") but most Christians don't know how to, don't want to, or just avoid considering it because they have something different in their secret and innermost desires.

It is also important to consider that different people may receive different "interpretations" that are not necessarily wrong in themselves even if they seem to be in conflict with one another but are limited to what they are given to understand. Like the blind men describing the elephant they examined, none of them were wrong but none of them could see the whole picture and describe the whole elephant.

[Arial]

43 minutes ago, teddyv said:

Christians constantly claim they are interpreting Scripture through the power of the Holy Spirit (from the ECF to today). Therefore the answer given becomes like a "no true Scotsman" fallacy and is of little help. 

There has to be some objective means to ascertain the "proper" interpretation. I would argue for the general agreements on the fundamentals of Christianity, as discerned over the centuries and stated in the historical creeds. That's a far more objective metric, if perhaps consensus-based.

I agree with what you say about the historical creeds.

People confuse their own mind and thoughts with the Holy Spirit speaking to them, so that whatever comes to mind they consider the Holy Spirit, without bothering to check if they are creating contradictions within the scriptures, or contradictions in God (which they are often doing both those things.) We don't do the work. The creeds however are the result of many doing the work of presenting doctrine from a unity within the scriptures, a consistency of it's message throughout, and never violating the character or self revelation of God. And then in those churches that did use these creeds, and those that still do, they teach what is in the creeds from the Bible. Starting very early in a child's life. That has almost completely left the modern church and therein lies the problem. A huge number of pastors (shepherds) do not have sound doctrine and are not required to.

I have debated with unitarians and those who deny saved by grace through faith alone, those who do not believe the Holy Spirit is the third person of the Trinity but some type of God force in them, who consider Him a what and always say "given/have holy spirit, who sincerely believe that it is the Holy Spirit who has told them these falsities. Those who deny some of the very doctrines that define what Christianity is uniquely from all other religions, and still call themselves Christians.

That being said, there are things in the Bible that must be understood correctly---those things dealing with the person and work of Christ that lead to salvation---and things such as eschatological views that do not pertain to one's salvation. But even in these things, there is only one truth, and that is the truth according to God. There may be more than one application of a passage, but only one truth. So of those things which are still a mystery to us as to the detail, no one should ever consider that the Holy Spirit revealed to them whatever it is they believe, but acknowledge it is how they see it.

[Alive]

12 hours ago, JohnD said:

 

If the Holy Spirit is meant to lead us to the truth, then how come there are so many disagreements in Christianity over things like salvation, heaven and hell, the rapture, the second coming, etc.?

Because people believe and follow the traditions of man rather than the interpretation of the scriptures by the Holy Spirit who wrote them through the writing prophets.

2 Peter 1:20–21 (know this first)

Jesus warned that the traditions of man nullify the scriptures (Mark 7:13) and make even the worship of him in vain (Mark 7:7). Yet most of Christendom is steeped in human tradition, human interpretation of the scriptures.

Proverbs 14:12 / Proverbs 16:25 / Matthew 16:23 / John 8:41–45 also indicate how evil and foolish the thinking and ways of man are.

I will jump in.

:-)

Yes, I agree. Further, I think that over the centuries there have been all kinds of doctrinal errors in the wind. Some folks latched on to one or more and over time, they became high towers to them. Where such high towers became in part, or defining in part the identity of the indivudal.

These high towers do not come down easily.

If one studies the writings of the various Reformers, its clear just how Rome affected them. In some things, they had not yet even become aware...as an example.

[Selah7]

May the Lord continue to lead and direct and teach us in His own gentle way, according to what we can handle.

[teddyv]

2 hours ago, FJK said:

There is (depending on what you call "objective") but most Christians don't know how to, don't want to, or just avoid considering it because they have something different in their secret and innermost desires.

It is also important to consider that different people may receive different "interpretations" that are not necessarily wrong in themselves even if they seem to be in conflict with one another but are limited to what they are given to understand. Like the blind men describing the elephant they examined, none of them were wrong but none of them could see the whole picture and describe the whole elephant.

I agree with the latter paragraph. Too often we seem to elevate our pet interpretations to a salvation matter. It's just a matter of weeding out the critical doctrines, which is why I appreciate the historical creeds - they were an attempt at a unified response to specific heresies creeping into the Church.

[JohnD]

2 Peter 1:20–21 (KJV)
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

1. the Holy Spirit wrote the Bible through the writing prophets

2. the entire Bible came in this way and therefore the entire Bible is prophetic thus the entire Bible is subject to this commandment

3. only the Holy Spirit is to interpret the Word of God / not by the will of man

Error, deception, deceit can only come from man's interpretation... on which traditions that oppose God and his word are built (masquerading as truth).

John 16:13 (KJV)
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.