Does God make some people for other people to benefit from them without them having specific purpose?

[TreeFivew]

Are some people just created to be a ram in the bush for other people?

[Jayne]

3 hours ago, TreeFivew said:

Are some people just created to be a ram in the bush for other people?

Even before the ram got caught in the bush and even before Abraham "noticed" it as the Bible says, that adult ram had a life of meaning and purpose.  Munching grass, sparring with other males, maybe having a mate.

Getting caught in the bush was God's idea for the end of his life ... but the animal did have a life.

Edited May 14, 2023 by Jayne

[Sower]

3 hours ago, TreeFivew said:

Are some people just created to be a ram in the bush for other people?

Jesus, though not created..

Quote;
Jesus was our Passover Lamb, sacrificed for us (1 Cor 5:7).   So why wouldn’t God have provided a lamb rather than a ram? The answer is really quite simple.

• Young sheep are lambs. 
• Adult female sheep are ewes. 
• Castrated male sheep are wethers, and  
• Intact (not castrated) adult male sheep are rams.  

While the Passover sacrifices were lambs (young sheep), like the ram God provided, Jesus was an adult.  Just as the ram was a male sheep, Jesus was a man. And, just as the sheep were perfect and without blemish, Jesus was sinless, having lived his life in perfect obedience.  For these reasons, the ram that God provided clearly pointed to the Lamb of God that He would one day provide.  As the sacrificial, pure and sinless, Lamb of God, Jesus was able to take on our sins upon Himself and make atonement for them.  He was able to pay the penalty by His death, and His great love made Him willing to do so.

In Summary

God providing a ram on Mt. Moriah, as a substitute for Isaac, clearly pre-figured Jesus being sent by God and being offered on Mt. Calvary as a substitute for us.

[AdHoc]

9 hours ago, TreeFivew said:

Are some people just created to be a ram in the bush for other people?

You allude to a recorded case, so I assume you mean our Lord Jesus.

The word "just" in your question diminishes the matter. But Jesus and His Work as a Man is grand. Let us see the attributes of the True Ram.
- After an eternity past in close fellowship with the Father, Jesus agrees to leave His lofty position and take the form of a lowly man. Which man, king or god would do this? Is He not superior in morality than all others?

- Being of the line of David by design, was He not entitled to a birth in a Palace with hundreds of servants attending to the mother and Babe? But He foregoes this to identify with "the poor of this world". Which king and/or God would do this?

- Being Creator of all things, He was entitled to judge and crush those who abused Him. Yet He took the abuse silently except to offer reconciliation. Which carpenter, having built something that goes against his wishes, would not destroy it? But Jesus offered forgiveness and salvation. 

- Being a Man under Law, He disciplined Himself to keep this Law fully, and so expressed the righteousness of His heavenly Father when the sum total of His fellow men conspired to break it. If you have seen Jesus in action you have seen God. What a life!

- His father has decreed that the guilty shall not escape, but Jesus was born to take the place of the guilty. This He must do VOLUNTARILY because His Father cannot command the innocent to pay for the guilty. Which king would do this? Which pauper would do it?

- Having been elevated to the right hand of the very God of the universe, Jesus continues to build the Father's House while His creature reviles and mocks Him for 2,000 years. Yet He gives mankind ample opportunity to repent and be blessed. Who of the powerful politicians of yore would tolerate this?

- God cursed the earth at the cry of Abel's blood spilled. Jesus' blood "speaks better things than Abel's blood" and allows the Father to one day lift the curse - thus restoring His creature.

- Man is doomed to death by a sin that one man committed (Rom-5:12-17, 6:23). Jesus comes as Lamb to set aside this sin and allow God to resurrect to life EVERY MAN (Jn.1:29, 1st Cor.15:22).

- Man has at least a dozen problems in His relationship to his Creator. Jesus comes as the sum of all Offerings to appease and satisfy God's just claims on man. What a Gift!

- Jesus comes first as the Son of Joseph to suffer for men, but comes again as the Son of David to rule the earth so that the poor and the weak will receive equity. Which worldly king/ president cares about the weak and poor?

This the Ram in the bush. These are just an EXTRACT of His credentials. Can we ever finish a report on His fame? He was born to be "just" the center of the universe - but the universe cannot contain Him.

 

[SACREDWARRIOR]

The Sovereignty of GOD over his creation is a tricky subject to navigate....You can find "PROOF TEXT'S" to support which ever view you subscribe to.

 I personally believe in the ABSOLUTE SOVEREIGNTY of GOD IN ALL CASES AND AREAS....but I see in scripture areas where that is hard to understand.....

 in ROMANS ,

[Rom 9:17-18 NASB95] 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH." 18 So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.

 We see clearly several points in this passage....GOD PLACED PHARAOH IN POWER WITH A SPECIFIC PLAN FOR REDEMPTION....THAT IT WAS FOR GOD'S OWN GLORY, IT IS HIS PREROGATIVE TO DO SO!!!

  in another familiar passage, we see JESUS healing a BLIND man, and being questioned by the Jews as to who's sin caused the mans blindness...JESUS ANSWERS AND SAYS...NO ONE, HE IS BLIND SO THAT , AT THIS MOMENT YOU MIGHT BELIEVE...." (paraphrased by me)

 The Ram in the thicket, was no accident, it says, prior to..Abraham finding it, GOD WILL PROVIDE A SACRIFICE, And that the RAM was there by God....

 I'll end by saying, it is said that CHARLES SPURGEON, was asked in reference to his belief on salvational sovreignity, why He bothers to preach , salvation as if ANYONE can come his reply was, "....GOD CHOSE BUT HE DIDNT TELL ME, TO GO AND LIFT UP COATTAILS TO SEE WHOM HE CHOSE..." *PARAPHRASED* 

the battle rages til the lion roars!!!

Clarence

[FJK]

God created each of us with a unique individual purpose, a unique role to play in life, that's all we need to know.

The challenge of living a Godly life lies in seeking out what that individual purpose for our life is and how to carry it out.

[com7fy8]

On 5/13/2023 at 7:45 PM, TreeFivew said:

Are some people just created to be a ram in the bush for other people?

For some time, I did not get along well with various churches. But I could see I was much my own main problem . . . while I wanted attention and praise and romance. 

Then I seemed to be more able to love different people, and I got with my lady friend. And she has connected me with her church and different people she helps.

And in order to do well with her and others, helping them, I have been learning to enjoy staying sacrificed to loving "without complaining and disputing" (in Philippians 2:13-16). And stay sacrificed to however God rules me in His peace > Colossians 3:15.

With being sacrificed to how God cares for me, I can be sacrificed to caring for others without trying to use them. And the quality of love with her is so better than how I could be while there was more lust and infatuation and daydreaming about getting married.

"and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again."(2 Corinthians 5:15)

[Roymond]

21 hours ago, AdHoc said:

You allude to a recorded case, so I assume you mean our Lord Jesus.

The word "just" in your question diminishes the matter. But Jesus and His Work as a Man is grand. Let us see the attributes of the True Ram.
- After an eternity past in close fellowship with the Father, Jesus agrees to leave His lofty position and take the form of a lowly man. Which man, king or god would do this? Is He not superior in morality than all others?

- Being of the line of David by design, was He not entitled to a birth in a Palace with hundreds of servants attending to the mother and Babe? But He foregoes this to identify with "the poor of this world". Which king and/or God would do this?

- Being Creator of all things, He was entitled to judge and crush those who abused Him. Yet He took the abuse silently except to offer reconciliation. Which carpenter, having built something that goes against his wishes, would not destroy it? But Jesus offered forgiveness and salvation. 

 

One of the results of the first sins was that humans would have to work to be able to eat.  Jesus learns a trade and takes it over so He was known as "the carpenter's/contractor's son" -- not backbreaking field labor, but tough work nevertheless.  So He labors in order to participate in the curse, that, having been under it, He could then break it.

[AdHoc]

11 hours ago, Roymond said:

One of the results of the first sins was that humans would have to work to be able to eat.  Jesus learns a trade and takes it over so He was known as "the carpenter's/contractor's son" -- not backbreaking field labor, but tough work nevertheless.  So He labors in order to participate in the curse, that, having been under it, He could then break it.

Amen. Our Lord Jesus, Son of David, should have lived in a Palace. Instead, Herod, an Edomite did. Jesus, Son of God had power over His creation. He commanded the wind and water, and they obeyed. Yet because He was full-time for the Father, women ministered to His needs. Jesus was was the House of God, yet He had no place to lay His head. He subjected Himself to all the pain of the curses that we must contend with, so that

"... we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. (Heb 4:15).

[AdHoc]

On 5/14/2023 at 2:19 PM, SACREDWARRIOR said:

The Sovereignty of GOD over his creation is a tricky subject to navigate....You can find "PROOF TEXT'S" to support which ever view you subscribe to.

 I personally believe in the ABSOLUTE SOVEREIGNTY of GOD IN ALL CASES AND AREAS....but I see in scripture areas where that is hard to understand.....

 in ROMANS ,

[Rom 9:17-18 NASB95] 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH." 18 So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.

 We see clearly several points in this passage....GOD PLACED PHARAOH IN POWER WITH A SPECIFIC PLAN FOR REDEMPTION....THAT IT WAS FOR GOD'S OWN GLORY, IT IS HIS PREROGATIVE TO DO SO!!!

  in another familiar passage, we see JESUS healing a BLIND man, and being questioned by the Jews as to who's sin caused the mans blindness...JESUS ANSWERS AND SAYS...NO ONE, HE IS BLIND SO THAT , AT THIS MOMENT YOU MIGHT BELIEVE...." (paraphrased by me)

 The Ram in the thicket, was no accident, it says, prior to..Abraham finding it, GOD WILL PROVIDE A SACRIFICE, And that the RAM was there by God....

 I'll end by saying, it is said that CHARLES SPURGEON, was asked in reference to his belief on salvational sovreignity, why He bothers to preach , salvation as if ANYONE can come his reply was, "....GOD CHOSE BUT HE DIDNT TELL ME, TO GO AND LIFT UP COATTAILS TO SEE WHOM HE CHOSE..." *PARAPHRASED* 

the battle rages til the lion roars!!!

Clarence

It is surely one of the most debated themes and I don't want to be the author of another heated discussion. I would only like to add some considerations.

If Solomon at his best is compared to a lily, then we may safely assume that the answer to the OP is that every one of us who comes to faith in God and the Work and Person of Jesus, was made to glorify God. Romans 8:29 sets a predestination NOT for salvation, but to be conformed to the image of Jesus. The price for this was, and is, enormous. But what of the Stalins and the Hitlers? What profit do they bring God? This, at once brings the keast of us bck into view for 2nd Corinthians 2:12-17 has this to say;

12 Furthermore, when I came to Troas to preach Christ's gospel, and a door was opened unto me of the Lord, ... 14 Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place. 15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish: 16 To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things? 17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.

The gospel needs three inputs to succeed. 1. The Holy Spirit must convict of sin and coming judgment (Jn.16:8). 2. The one dealt so with by the Holy Spirit must, in terror, be told BY MEN, of the solution and salvation from God's wrath - for faith comes from HEARING (Rom.10:14). 3. The Father in heaven must give a heavenly vision of Christ and draw him (Matt.16:17, Jn.6:44). We should remember that God does not highly prize men. He loves them and fulfills His duty towards them, but His great desire and joy is Christ. Many men have been complimented by God, and great is their reward, but of a voice out of heaven commending a man as He did with Jesus, we hear nothing. Jesus is the source of God's highest joy, and in the threefold purpose above, if we are to believe the section out of 2nd Corinthians 2 above, Christ is the object of the Gospel and a sweet savor to God.

And this grand privilege is given the least of us Christians. That is, the least and youngest of us Christians, with our fallenness and our deformities, are the vehicle of glory. The plain and poor sister who has no great wealth or beauty, and who has been designated to clean the toilets of the meeting hall, carries as much potential as the handsome, eloquent and popular Pastor. She has only to work up the courage to speak. The force and energy to glorify God in Christ is not some privilege reserved for the handsome and popular and eloquent. It is the INDWELLING SPIRIT! (Jn.7:37-39). In John the Spirit is not given for power like Acts 1:8. It is given for LIFE (Jn.20:30-31). The modest sister, servant of all in the Assembly, is a potential Paul. And what did Paul boast in? That to him was given the glory to preach the unsearchable riches of Christ. And so we should judge each other - potential Pauls.

But what then of the other end of the scale. Pharaoh is a stubborn and proud man. But after the fourth or fifth plague his knees grow weak. His political ambitions and his claim to deity cannot take another defeat. He is ready to capitulate. But God has not reached His goal. The goal is not frogs and flies. The goal is the grand display of what Jesus would do for the WORLD. The Lamb is the goal. And so God bolsters Pharaoh the weakling. Have you read Revelation 6? At the first sign of God's wrath the mighty men of the earth seek caves to hide in. God, with a flick of His little finger, brings the hardest of men to a loose bowel and knocking knees. To bring in the ultimate display of God's wisdom and ability - the Lamb of God, Pharaoh needed to be held up by God.

And then we display how short-sighted we are. We only see God hardening Pharaoh the weakling. And then our depraved minds entertain a flash of evil thought ... God is not fair (perish the thought)! But we must look ahead to the White Throne when Pharaoh will be judged. And those who believe the Bible will rest, assured that God will compensate. Pharaoh no doubt deserved Gehenna. You do not order babies, who are in Covenant with Jehovah (via Abraham), to be slaughtered. You just don't do such a stupid thing as to strike an Israelite. But who knows if the great Judge will reduce Pharaoh's sentence a little. He will desperately need it then!

Either way, as 2nd Corinthians above shows, God is glorified. His absolute righteousness will be displayed one way or the other. And so from our gentle and plain sister to Pharaoh, builder of pyramids, God is glorified.