enoob57 Posted August 12, 2023 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,304 Content Per Day: 7.99 Reputation: 21,508 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Online Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted August 12, 2023 Seeing how togues is verbal communication this: John 7:45 (KJV) [45] Then came the officers to the chief priests and Pharisees; and they said unto them, Why have ye not brought him? [46] The officers answered, Never man spake like this man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted August 12, 2023 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 958 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,659 Content Per Day: 5.04 Reputation: 9,086 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted August 12, 2023 On 5/26/2023 at 6:27 PM, PATrobas said: There is no Biblical record of Him ever exercising that gift. Him meaning Yeshua, I ask is there Biblical record of anyone speaking as in "tongues" prior to Pentecost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PATrobas Posted August 12, 2023 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 54 Topics Per Day: 0.15 Content Count: 178 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 240 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/07/2023 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 12, 2023 12 minutes ago, Neighbor said: Him meaning Yeshua, I ask is there Biblical record of anyone speaking as in "tongues" prior to Pentecost? The sign gifts of the Spirit were/are given to the church for its edification. However, Is. 28:11 is quoted in 1 Cor. 14:21 "In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord." but this wasn't the gift of tongues but rather the Assyrians coming to invade Israel for their unbelief and they didn't understand the foreign language. They (Israel) were "unbelievers." So Paul goes on then to explain and compare Israel with those who refuse to believe the Gospel, " Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not:" So, in answer to your question, No, I don't believe there is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted August 12, 2023 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 958 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,659 Content Per Day: 5.04 Reputation: 9,086 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted August 12, 2023 11 hours ago, hand of blessing said: Also, Jesus did not travel very far away from his home country, Perhaps so, perhaps not. Are we not totally without information as to His whereabouts for a lengthy period of his time, the time between His youth and His three year ministry? Where was he for about 17+ or - years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi4Yahweh Posted August 12, 2023 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,955 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 636 Days Won: 1 Joined: 11/12/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted August 12, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Neighbor said: Him meaning Yeshua, I ask is there Biblical record of anyone speaking as in "tongues" prior to Pentecost? Some argue that Hannah Samuel the Prophet's mother spoke or prayed in tongues: And it came to pass, as she continued praying before the LORD, that Eli marked her mouth. Now Hannah, she spake in her heart; only her lips moved, but her voice was not heard: therefore Eli thought she had been drunken. And Eli said unto her, How long wilt thou be drunken? put away thy wine from thee. And Hannah answered and said, No, my lord, I [am] a woman of a sorrowful spirit: I have drunk neither wine nor strong drink, but have poured out my soul before the LORD. - 1Sa 1:12-15 For he that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth [him]; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. ... For if I pray in an [unknown] tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. - 1Co 14:2, 14-15 KJV Edited August 12, 2023 by Jedi4Yahweh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted August 12, 2023 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 958 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,659 Content Per Day: 5.04 Reputation: 9,086 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted August 12, 2023 Just now, Jedi4Yahweh said: Some argue that Hannah Samuels the Prophet's mother spoke or prayed in tongues: And it came to pass, as she continued praying before the LORD, that Eli marked her mouth. Now Hannah, she spake in her heart; only her lips moved, but her voice was not heard: therefore Eli thought she had been drunken. And Eli said unto her, How long wilt thou be drunken? put away thy wine from thee. And Hannah answered and said, No, my lord, I [am] a woman of a sorrowful spirit: I have drunk neither wine nor strong drink, but have poured out my soul before the LORD. - 1Sa 1:12-15 Hi, An interesting possibility, thanks for sharing of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted August 12, 2023 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 958 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,659 Content Per Day: 5.04 Reputation: 9,086 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted August 12, 2023 27 minutes ago, Neighbor said: Hi, An interesting possibility, thanks for sharing of it. However upon thinking just a bit and looking at commentaries I don't see where "some" would come up with that conclusion, - unless they were really stretching to force fit a conclusion they wanted it to fill. It certainly wasn't edifying for Eli. He did not understand the movements nor the contortions at all. So that purpose of "tongues " was not in play as it was to be at Pentecost. That she may have had the experience of the Holy Spirit upon her person may have been a unique experience to her I suppose. She spoke her heart to God,as she did her lips moved is all I read, anything else would be for me speculation. Since her lips moved, perhaps she was mouthing words in a manner deliberately keep Eli at a loss to understanding her plea to God. Interesting, eh! But without some corroboration elsewhere I cannot use it, not as a standalone reveal. As an aside: I find my lips move as I read if my heart gets deeply into a subject being read about. I slooow down as I read along, kinda thinking word by word rather than taking in paragraphs at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyB Posted August 12, 2023 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,628 Content Per Day: 1.15 Reputation: 304 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/23/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted August 12, 2023 4 hours ago, enoob57 said: Seeing how togues is verbal communication this: John 7:45 (KJV) [45] Then came the officers to the chief priests and Pharisees; and they said unto them, Why have ye not brought him? [46] The officers answered, Never man spake like this man. John 7:45-47, "Finally the temple guards went back to the chief priests and the Pharisees, who asked them, “Why didn’t you bring him in?” “No one ever spoke the way this man does,” the guards replied. “You mean he has deceived you also?” the Pharisees retorted." You have clearly taken a single verse out of context and given a mistaken understanding of what it says. Since they were supposedly deceived they understood what He had said. This has nothing to do with speaking in tongues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hand of blessing Posted August 13, 2023 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 8 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 10 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/10/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted August 13, 2023 . The Biblical story of Hanna is so amazing for me and it touches my heart; Hanna was barren and could not bear children for the Lord had shut up her womb. Hanna’s inability to bear children was such heartbreak, anguish, affliction and distress for her that she would go to the temple many times and rise up in the temple weeping, crying and sorrowful, she was in bitterness of soul and prayed unto the LORD, and wept and wept and she was so hurt that she even refused to eat food. she would pray silently moving her lips in prayer, but God had a plan to bring the prophet Samuel through Hanna. He opened her womb and her sorrow, pain, anguish and affliction she felt was turned to rejoicing. Hanna was a Polygamous woman married to a man named Elkanah who had two wives - Hannah and Peninnah: But we notice something here, in the Translation in 1Sam 1: 6 - 7 :6....... And her adversary also provoked her sore, for to make her fret :7....... so she, ( her adversary ) - provoked her; therefore she wept, and did not eat. In verses :6 - :7 - Is the Translation attempting to say that the other wife, the second wife of Elkanah, named Peninnah - was someone that Hanna perceived as a female adversary unto her and that Hannah felt that this second wife was “ provoking Hanna “ - and aggravating, persecuting and a torment unto Hanna, causing Hanna to feel all these hurtful feelings ? Please notice The King James Version says 1Sa 1:6 And her adversary also provoked her sore, for to make her fret, womb. :7 so she provoked her; therefore she wept, and did not eat. The Catholic Douay Rheims Version says 1Sa 1: Her rival also afflicted her, and troubled her exceedingly, insomuch that she upbraided her :7 she provoked her: but Anna wept, and did not eat. Do the manuscripts truly say that the other wife, the second wife of Elkanah, named Peninnah - was someone who was an ENEMY, a RIVAL acting as a female adversary, provoking Hanna “ persecuting and tormenting Hanna ? The Translations do portray the other wife here as a horrible evil enemy and tormenter as a second wife who was Her ADVERSARY,, Her Opponent,, Her Challenger,, Her Antagonist,, Her Rival and Her Persecutor “ We do see the “ TRANSLATIONS “ attempting to invent and insert an imaginary boogie - woman in the background who is the other wife of the husband by altering and completely changing the passage. This is supposed to be based on the pretext and alleged reason of the reader suspecting that Hannah was being antagonized, tormented and persecuted because another woman / wife and her children { HER adversary } had received more possessions and property than Hannah had received. Hannah is filled with jealousy, hatred, anger, rage and bitterness / resentment : that she is enraged and infuriated to the point of starving herself to death because her husband is an evil polygamous who only cares about his other wife. But let’s look at verse - :6 ....... And her adversary also provoked her sore This is exactly what the Hebrew Manuscripts say - exactly word for word. :6 וכעסתה And her anger - צרתה her anguish, - affliction - distress - גם־כעס also grief / sorrow - בעבור because - הרעמה she troubled - כי־סגר since that shut - יהוה Jehovah / Yahwhea - בעד for - רחמה׃ her womb :6 manuscript meaning AND HER ANGER HER ANGUISH, AFFLICTION DISTRESS GRIEF SORROW BECAUSE SHE TROUBLED SINCE THAT SHUT YAHWHEA FOR HER WOMB But the translation says - - :6....... And HER adversary also provoked her sore, for to make her fret, because the LORD had shut up her womb But the manuscripts say nothing about Hanna being upset, hurt and in sorrow because the other wife was an adversary provoking her in torment and sorrow :7 וכן And so - יעשׂה she did - שׁנה year - בשׁנה by year - מדי - too much - עלתה rise up - בבית in the house - יהוה of Yahwhea - כן so - תכעסנה grievous sorrow - ותבכה weeping - ולא and not - תאכל׃ did eat :7 AND SO SHE DID YEAR BY YEAR TOO MUCH RISE UP IN THE HOUSE OF YAHWHEA SO GRIEVOUS SORROW WEEPING AND NOT DID EAT But the translation says - - :7....... so SHE { HER adversary } provoked her ; therefore she wept, and did not eat. Again the manuscripts say nothing about Hanna having an adversary who is provoking her in torment and sorrow Let’s look at the two words that the translations use adversary and provoked Notice this Hebrew word “ tsârâh - צרתה “ = is used “ 73 total times……… “ - in the entire Manuscripts this word always has the exact meaning of - anguish, - affliction - distress - tribulation - trouble and one single time - and ONE TIME ONLY - the translators change this word into “ ADVERSARY “ the 72 other times, they translate this word always as “ anguish, - affliction - distress - tribulation - trouble . “ They needed his polygamous wife Hannah to have a horrible evil enemy and tormenter, another second wife who was her “ Her ADVERSARY, Her Opponent, Her Challenger, Her Antagonist, Her Rival and Her Persecutor “ Never is this Hebrew word “ tsârâh - צרתה “ ever, ever, ever again by the TRANSLATORS - used as the word - ADVERSARY of the “ 73 total times except in verse - :7 Also the word - “ PROVOKED “ that the translators attempt to insert into the passage is the Hebrew word כַּעַס - ka‛as / kah'-as Meaning - = Anger, angry, grief, indignation, provocation, sorrow, spite, wrath. https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/h3512/kjv/wlc/0-1/ to despond; causatively, to deject: — be broken, be grieved, make sad. But the description in the chapter gives not single narrative that Hanna was feeling provocation and suffering because she was angry or jealous of the other wife - - this is assumed by the translators - FROM THEIR OWN PERSONAL FEELING. NOTHING IN THE MANUSCRIPTS NOR THE PASSAGE IS INDICATING FEELINGS OF HURT BECAUSE OF A POLYGAMOUS FAMILY SITUATUION…….. 1Sa 1:16 for out of the abundance of my complaint and “ GRIEF כַּעַס - ka‛as “have I spoken Psa 112:10 The wicked shall see it, and be grieved “ GRIEF כַּעַס - ka‛as “ Pro 17:25 A foolish son is a “ GRIEF כַּעַס - ka‛as “to his father Ecc 1:18 For in much wisdom is much grief Ecc 2:23 For all his days are sorrows, and his travail “ GRIEF כַּעַס - ka‛as “ Ecc 7:3 Sorrow is better than laughter: for by the sadness of the countenance the heart is made better Ecc 11:10 Therefore remove “ SORROW כַּעַס - ka‛as “ from thy heart Psa 112:10 The wicked shall see it, and be “ GREIVED כַּעַס - ka‛as All of these words - anguish, - affliction - distress - tribulation - trouble grief All of these words can easily be results of PROVICATION and a result of being PROVOKED But the scriptures clearly are not saying that Hanna was “ PROVOKED “ by the second wife acting as an ADVASARY 1Sa 1:4 And when the time was that Elkanah offered, he gave to Peninnah his wife, and to all her sons and her daughters, portions: :5 But UNTO HANNAH HE GAVE A WORTHY PORTION; for HE LOVED HANNAH: - but the LORD had shut up her womb. But we find that her husband deeply and lovingly loved her and has a loving relationship and that after the prophecy and she conceives shortly thereafter 1Sa 1:26 And she said, Oh my lord, as thy soul liveth, my lord, I am the woman that stood by thee here, praying unto the LORD. :27 For this child I prayed; and the LORD hath given me my petition which I asked of. Hannah goes home continuing to live to live a happy live in the Lord - a life of a polygamous Godly wife who bears a son who is the Prophet Of God Samuel, born out of polygamous Godly marriage. The translations interject and just out of the blue - out of nowhere invent a characterization and portrait, painting the second wife as a horrible evil enemy and tormenter as a second wife who was Her ADVERSARY, Her Opponent,, Her Challenger,, Her Antagonist,, Her Rival and Her Persecutor “ Attempting to invent and insert an imaginary boogie - woman in the background DEEP IN THE SHADOWS - the other wife of the husband, by altering and completely changing the passage. Hannah was being antagonized, tormented and persecuted because another woman / wife and her children { HER adversary } had received more possessions and property than Hannah had received. Hannah is filled with jealousy, hatred, anger, rage and bitterness / resentment : that she is enraged and infuriated to the point of starving herself to death because her husband is an evil polygamous who only cares about his other wife. But the message of the original message is absolutely nothing like the translation portrays 1Sa 1:20 after Hannah had conceived, that she bare a son, and called his name Samuel, saying, BECAUSE I HAVE ASKED HIM OF THE LORD. :26 I AM THE WOMAN THAT STOOD BY THEE HERE, PRAYING UNTO THE LORD. :27 FOR THIS CHILD I PRAYED; AND THE LORD HATH GIVEN ME MY PETITION WHICH I ASKED OF HIM: Verse - :6 AND HER ANGER HER ANGUISH, AFFLICTION DISTRESS GRIEF SORROW BECAUSE SHE TROUBLED SINCE THAT SHUT YAHWHEA FOR HER WOMB Verse - :7 AND SO SHE DID YEAR BY YEAR TOO MUCH RISE UP IN THE HOUSE OF YAHWHEA SO GRIEVOUS SORROW WEEPING AND NOT DID EAT The manuscripts say absolutely nothing about an imaginary boogie woman in the shadows or the background acting as a second wife in a polygamous marriage who is antagonizing and provoking Hanna - this is inserted and added into the translation by altering and changing the original message of the manuscript. :5 But unto Hannah he gave a worthy portion; for he loved Hannah: but the LORD had shut up her womb. This is nothing but more anti - polygamy propaganda that is found inserted, interwoven, interjected and weaved through the entirety of the translations that do not reflect the original message of the manuscripts by changing and altering the original manuscript message. WHAT THE TRANSLATIONS ATTEMPT TO INTERJECT IS THAT - WE ARE SUPPOSED TO PRETEND AND WISH AND IMAGINE AND PLAY THE NARRATIVE THAT GOD FROWNS AND WINKS AND “ SECRETLY “ SCOWLS AND - FLASHES HINTS AND BLURRY CUE CARDS AND “ VAGUE SUGGESTIONS “ AND FUZZY NEGATIVE _ TIP – OFFS _ ABOUT IT - THIS IS WHAT THE TRANSLATORS IMPOSE AND INJECT INTO THE TRANSLATIONS AS THEY COMPLETELY MODIFY AND CHANGE THE PASSAGES FROM WHAT THE ORIGINAL SAYS. __ There simply are no manuscripts for this faith system, that interject IMAGINATIVE FROWNS AND WINKS AND “ SECRET “ SCOWLS AND - FLASHES HINTS AND BLURRY CUE CARDS AND “ VAGUE SUGGESTIONS “ AND FUZZY NEGATIVE _ TIP – OFFS _ ABOUT A NARRATIVE THAT ARE COMPLETELY OUT OF CONTEXT - in fact the opposite exists throughout the manuscripts in a Pro Polygamy manuscripts message and consistency and conformity in every possible way - in the original manuscript - the translation always deviates away from the manuscripts original message … Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hand of blessing Posted August 13, 2023 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 8 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 10 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/10/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted August 13, 2023 (edited) we direct you https://electxrextheelectriclion.nfshost.com/ Edited August 13, 2023 by hand of blessing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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