Which is it?

[Shilohsfoal]

It's amazing that people in the nuclear age can't determine what makes desolate.

After the king of babylons fall and his city is taken,the palestinians who are celebrating in the street of Babylon will melt.

Then maybe you will figure out what the armed forces of the north use to make desolate.

 

 

Isaiah 14

²⁹ Rejoice not thou, whole Palestina, because the rod of him that smote thee is broken: for out of the serpent's root shall come forth a cockatrice, and his fruit shall be a fiery flying serpent.

³⁰ And the firstborn of the poor shall feed, and the needy shall lie down in safety: and I will kill thy root with famine, and he shall slay thy remnant.

³¹ Howl, O gate; cry, O city; thou, whole Palestina, art dissolved: for there shall come from the north a smoke, and none shall be alone in his appointed times.

³² What shall one then answer the messengers of the nation? That the Lord hath founded Zion, and the poor of his people shall trust in it.

 

 

 

Edited July 23, 2023 by Shilohsfoal

[Uriah]

10 hours ago, Diaste said:

Yes. We, believers who confess His name, are that Temple. Not a building of stone, a living Temple.

Of course. And I have always considered the reference of tthe passage as pointing to the mellenial temple per subsequent statements in it.

10 hours ago, Diaste said:

I know nothing about Jesus coming back and rebuilding a Temple. I understand their is no need for a 'temple' in the coming true Millennial Kingdom. 

Like many others, I consider the temple described in Ezekiel's vision as as to come in the future. For example, after Jesus returns.

Ok Jesus will not build a temple, "personally". the same as Solomon's temple wasn't by his personal efforts like moving stones etc. 

 

10 hours ago, Diaste said:

The Temple that is coming, built by human hands, out of stone, standing on the Temple Mount, is strictly to satisfy the desire to restore the religious national identity of Judaism and Israel. It's a false Temple, ostensibly built to honor God, just like any other temple, church, basilica, or so called 'house of worship'.  

The next Jewish Temple isn't ordained, sanctioned or, sanctified by the Most High God. 

Well, time will tell. Yet the authority of the temple mount people I cited, seems to be satisfactory to the general population as far as I can tell.

10 hours ago, Diaste said:

Yes, Dan 11:29-31 is AE IV, the abomination from those passages is a man made image, from all I have read on the subject. 

Dan 12:11 context is the time of the end, well advanced in centuries future from AE IV.

 

Dan 8:11-Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.

Dan 8:12-And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

Dan 8:13-Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

Dan 11:31-And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

Dan 12:11-And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

I understand your position on Dan 12:11. I am seeing it somewhat as we see things written in Revelation; the narrative moves on and returns to the the previous subject.

Edited July 23, 2023 by Uriah
Added sentence re: Solomon

[JoeCanada]

On 7/20/2023 at 3:30 PM, Shilohsfoal said:

On 7/4/2023 at 8:10 PM, JoeCanada said:

 

Why will the Jews escape through the valley when the Mt of Olives is split???......... as Jesus stands on the Mount of Olives splitting it in half???

Jesus is there..... He has returned..... it's His Second Coming

And so the Jews will flee from.....Him?

???????????????????? 

 

Expand  

The Jews are not fleeing from Jesus.Jesus said they would flee when they see the abomination of desolation.

And they are not fleeing to avalley.They are fleeing to the mountains where the caves are on the day of the Lord.They are hiding.

Revelation 6

¹⁵ And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

¹⁶ And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

@douggg

Are we talking about the same event?

If Jesus is standing on the Mount of Olives, then it's quite obvious that He has returned.

The AofD is at the midpoint of the 70th week. The (Jews) (kings and rich men and captains and mighty men etc) don't hide in the mtns and rocks and caves until the sixth seal is opened.... which is well into the last half of Daniels 70th week.

 

[Diaste]

On 7/23/2023 at 12:42 PM, Uriah said:

Of course. And I have always considered the reference of tthe passage as pointing to the mellenial temple per subsequent statements in it.

Like many others, I consider the temple described in Ezekiel's vision as as to come in the future. For example, after Jesus returns.

Ok Jesus will not build a temple, "personally". the same as Solomon's temple wasn't by his personal efforts like moving stones etc. 

 

Well, time will tell. Yet the authority of the temple mount people I cited, seems to be satisfactory to the general population as far as I can tell.

 

Dan 8:11-Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.

Dan 8:12-And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

Dan 8:13-Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

Dan 11:31-And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

Dan 12:11-And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

I understand your position on Dan 12:11. I am seeing it somewhat as we see things written in Revelation; the narrative moves on and returns to the the previous subject.

In any case, I don't see Dan 9:27 disagreeing with Matt 24:15 and Mark 13:14.

It's some overriding abominable condition in Dan 9:27 more than a single act abomination caused by a thing or behavior.

Dan 11:29-31 is the AE IV A of D in 168 BC. Dan 12:11, which aligns well with Matt 24:15 and Mark 13:14, speaks to a specific abomination, since all three references mention set up or standing. And all three should agree. All visions and prophecies of the end are by the direction and will of the same God. None can disagree or God disagrees with Himself, and we know that cannot be. 

I don't think it comes down to a 'Which is it?", but it's more like we are seeing attributes of the same time. Each time a prophecy of the same eschatological event is given, we are seeing additional details of the same event. Added together, we see a more complete picture of that event.

In this instance we see an overriding sense of disgust surrounding the Dan 9:27 condition caused by detestable things that appall. From the Olivet discourse, at least in my opinion, we are seeing a main cause of the overriding abominable, appalling situation in existence, or perhaps the 'standing where it ought not' is a sign the abominations are now here.

In any case I see nothing contradictory nor any compulsion to make a choice between the two since we are seeing additional details about the same time period. 

[Shilohsfoal]

5 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

@douggg

Are we talking about the same event?

If Jesus is standing on the Mount of Olives, then it's quite obvious that He has returned.

The AofD is at the midpoint of the 70th week. The (Jews) (kings and rich men and captains and mighty men etc) don't hide in the mtns and rocks and caves until the sixth seal is opened.... which is well into the last half of Daniels 70th week.

 

The AOD is not at the midpoint of anything.The AOD is at the time of the end.The occupants of Judea flee when they see the AOD .They flee the same day the Lord stands on the Mt of olives.

 

Edited July 27, 2023 by Shilohsfoal

[Shilohsfoal]

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

In any case, I don't see Dan 9:27 disagreeing with Matt 24:15 and Mark 13:14.

It's some overriding abominable condition in Dan 9:27 more than a single act abomination caused by a thing or behavior.

Dan 11:29-31 is the AE IV A of D in 168 BC. Dan 12:11, which aligns well with Matt 24:15 and Mark 13:14, speaks to a specific abomination, since all three references mention set up or standing. And all three should agree. All visions and prophecies of the end are by the direction and will of the same God. None can disagree or God disagrees with Himself, and we know that cannot be. 

I don't think it comes down to a 'Which is it?", but it's more like we are seeing attributes of the same time. Each time a prophecy of the same eschatological event is given, we are seeing additional details of the same event. Added together, we see a more complete picture of that event.

In this instance we see an overriding sense of disgust surrounding the Dan 9:27 condition caused by detestable things that appall. From the Olivet discourse, at least in my opinion, we are seeing a main cause of the overriding abominable, appalling situation in existence, or perhaps the 'standing where it ought not' is a sign the abominations are now here.

In any case I see nothing contradictory nor any compulsion to make a choice between the two since we are seeing additional details about the same time period. 

There will be many nuclear weapons used by the armed forces of the north throughout the middle east.But there is only one placed in Jerusalem after the fall of the Israeli government and it's state.

It's the Israeli governments policy that Israel should be nuked as well as all the countries that have attacked it and have taken it.

Its called the Samson option.

 

¹⁶ They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

¹⁷ That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

¹⁸ All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.

¹⁹ But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.

²⁰ Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.

 

 

 

 

When Babylon falls,all the cities of the nations that attacked it fall as well.

Edited July 27, 2023 by Shilohsfoal

[Desopixi Seilynam]

We are inside of a great age of deception directly relating and leading to the beast and false prophet.

The end times began when Jesus ascended up into heaven.

Jesus physically ascended beyond the sky into the city of heaven, (Acts 1:9-11)
physically sat down at the right hand of the Father, (who is a Spirit) (Hebrews 12:2)
and physically took the scroll in the right hand of the Father, (Rev 5:1,7)
and began to open seals. (Revelation 6:1-9)

I believe that the opening of the seals and the four colors represent 4 distinct and overlapping periods of time.

The white and red periods of time have past.
We are headed into the climax of the black horse,
world wide economic collapse.
Afterwards the time of the pale horse is the time of the beast
and false prophet, they will trick people into eternal death.

Ultimately God Himself sends a fire upon Jerusalem; Isaiah 31:9, Revelation 20:9.

First the Messiah returns with an army of resurrected saints,
literally spewing divine fire from His mouth (Rev 19:1-21, 2 Thess 1:7-10)

This fire consumes those gathered to fight Him,
and I believe forms a literal lake of fire.

Jerusalem and Israel are rebuilt and the Messiah reigns for 1000 years.
After 1000 years Satan is allowed to fight against the saints again,
deceiving the world to gather against the saints.

But a fire comes down from God out of the sky Rev 20:9

I believe that at this point the sky itself is destroyed,
2 Peter 3:12 connects with Revelation 20:9.

The first sky and land pass away and there is no more sea. Rev 21:1
This world is destroyed by Gods divine fire,
a new sky and land is formed, and the city of heaven comes down.

Water flows from the middle of the city,
from the throne of God. Rev 22:1

 

Whatever the abomination is, is something placed by armies.

'they shall place the abomination..'

'standing where it ought not'

Something placed, something standing.

And that causes desolation.

Something put in a holy spot on purpose, by armies.

And associated with the beast and false prophet.

 

 

[Uriah]

8 hours ago, Diaste said:

In any case I see nothing contradictory nor any compulsion to make a choice between the two since we are seeing additional details about the same time period. 

I get it, Thanks, D.

[DeighAnn]

9 hours ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

Whatever the abomination is, is something placed by armies.

'they shall place the abomination..'

'standing where it ought not'

Something placed, something standing.

And that causes desolation.

Something put in a holy spot on purpose, by armies.

And associated with the beast and false prophet.

Do you see Daniel 8 as giving some 'details' to who/what causes desolation?  

9And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land. 10And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them. 11Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of HIS sanctuary was cast down.




Do you see the HIM, HIM, and IT that follows as being one in the same or not?

12And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered. 13Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? 14And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

[douggg]

On 7/26/2023 at 10:50 PM, JoeCanada said:

@douggg

Are we talking about the same event?

If Jesus is standing on the Mount of Olives, then it's quite obvious that He has returned.

The AofD is at the midpoint of the 70th week. The (Jews) (kings and rich men and captains and mighty men etc) don't hide in the mtns and rocks and caves until the sixth seal is opened.... which is well into the last half of Daniels 70th week.

 

The AoD will be setup on day 1185 (1335 days before Jesus returns).   The Jews begin fleeing to the mountains at that time.

There will be a portion of the Jews who don't heed Jesus's words to flee right away when they see the AoD standing in the holy place (the temple mount).     That portion of Jews will be cutoff from fleeing, and will remain in Jerusalem, being subject to persecution under the beast-king's 42 month reign.

---------------------------------------

At the end of the 7 years, those Jews persecuted and held as captives (as hostages in Zechariah 14:3), will "escape" through the valley created by the mount of Olives splitting in half, when Jesus touches down on it.

_

 

Edited July 28, 2023 by douggg