Any thoughts on this?

[FJK]

Would you say the same for murder, rape, robbery and so on?

If not, are you being honest with yourself or trying to justify something you are unwilling to face honestly?

The first step to repentance for sin, or for any problem for that matter, it to acknowledge that you are sinning and have a problem with it.

[The_Patriot21]

46 minutes ago, Stan Murff said:

Jesus got drunk drinking wine?  I never heard that before

I guess my biggest question is, I'll still go to heaven, right?

If it's true that all our sins past present and future are already forgiven, and we will still go to heaven regardless of our actions, then why does it even matter?

Lol no Jesus didn't get drunk. There's a big difference between having a drink, and getting drunk.

But I have a feeling you already know that.

But to answer your question...does it matter? You tell me. 

 

James 2:18

But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

Works don't save us. . .but if we are truly saved, then we are actively seeking Christ. And if we are actively seeking Christ, then our lives will show it through our works.

So if we're unwilling to change, to become more like Christ, then where is our faith at? Is it really in Christ? Or are we just pretending?

[AnOrangeCat]

37 minutes ago, Stan Murff said:

Jesus got drunk drinking wine?  I never heard that before

No one said he got drunk on the stuff, but historically speaking the wine was often safer to drink than the water back at the time, and as pointed out His first miracle was turning water into wine. Wine was also customary during the Passover so it's a safe assumption to say that he consumed it, but again, getting drunk is another matter. It's also believed that wine during Biblical times had lower alcohol content than what we have today.

35 minutes ago, Stan Murff said:

If it's a sin and the sin has already been forgiven, then what's the big deal?

That's what I'm trying to understand.

FJK gave an excellent argument from the perspective of morality and logic. Here's a few verses for you.

Romans 6:1-2: "What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?"

Romans 6:15-16: "What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means! Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?"

I John 2:1-4: "My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. We know that we have come to know Him if we keep His commands. Whoever says, “I know Him,” but does not do what He commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person."

These verses make it clear that we're not to go on willfully sinning and that we declare our allegiance with our actions. When James speaks on showing our faith through our works whether or not we willfully sin reveals how deeply our convictions run. It's one thing to be struggling with sins and addictions and fail. It's another to be indulging in them and in so doing abuse God's goodwill toward us. Hebrews 10:26 gives a stern warning about that.

[phoneman-777]

3 hours ago, Stan Murff said:

I go to a non denomination church that has teachings similar to some of the popular tv preachers out there such as Joel Osteen.

The question I have is why is it wrong for Christians to drink alcohol at home and get what some would classify as getting drunk?  I've done this on weekends after working hard all week for years.  Someone recently told me this was a sin?

Most of the preachers I have heard say that our future sins are already forgiven and once we get saved we have eternal life and nobody and take us away from the Lord.

What's the deal with this anyway?  I'm not hurting anybody and I don't drive while drinking or operate heavy machinery or anything dangerous to hurt me or my wife or kids.  I don't get falling down drunk, just buzzed real good.  I know others in my church that say they do the same and have no problem with it.

Should I be worried about this?  Or is it true that all future sins are already forgiven and it's no big deal?

God loves us and only wants what's best for us. Statistically, 1 out of every 7 people who take their first drink go on to become an alcoholic, and we all know how alcoholism destroys lives. If we had a dog that bit 1 out of every 7 people, would we keep that thing around long?

>Webster speaks:

"Wine" in the old days meant both unfermented grape juice and fermented booze, so context is key.

>Proverbs speaks:

Strong drink/wine for the dying/depressed, according to the contextual evidence, refers to the spiritually lost without hope.

Solomon said don't even look at it when it turns into fermented booze, let alone drink it, and he points out the evil it brings.

>Ecclesiastes speaks:

Merely pointing out booze makes people "merry" is hardly a Biblical precedent to ignore all the Biblical warnings about it.

>Jesus speaks: 

Before Passover, the Jews were required to dispose of anything fermented from their midst, so there's no way booze was served at the Last Supper - and there's no way God would use booze to represent His pure blood shed for sinners.

At Cana, the "best wine served last" was not necessarily booze at all - anyone will agree that fresh unfermented grape juice tastes better than not-so-fresh unfermented grape juice, both being unfermented. And, would Jesus inspire Solomon to condemn even looking at booze, then later "bless" wedding guests with gallons and gallons of bad news booze?

>Paul speaks:

Paul tells Timothy to use wine medicinally, and grape juice has the same health benefits as wine without the booze.

 

If I forgot any, please advise

 

Edited August 6, 2023 by phoneman-777

[phoneman-777]

3 hours ago, The_Patriot21 said:

Is it wrong to drink? Long debates talk. I'm not going to bother messing to much with Osteen, other then he's a false prophet and should be avoided.

But I will address drinking. Drinking itself, is not forbidden in the Bible. Even Jesus drank wine, in fact his first miracle was turning water to wine.

But the Bible does speek out strongly against drunkenness. Calls it a sin.. because if you get drunk you lose self control.

I myself occasionally have a drink or to. But keyword is occasionally. A pint of crown will last me around 2-3 months.

If you can't drink and avoid getting drunk then perhaps give it up altogether. But I would recommend stop drinking in excess, drunkenness is not good for you.

Now...if your a believer, I don't believe God's going to kick you out of heaven for it. It's not the unpardonable sin. But it is a sin, and I think God is convicting you of it, and I think part of you knows it, as your asking the question.

When did Jesus drink wine?

[Neighbor]

Two separate subjects seem to be in play here, but both  motivated by one issue. That being the question how far can I stray from God and still be found acceptable to Him for all eternity forward.

WHAT AN AMAZING QUESTION  or thought process, wondering how far can one stray instead of cherishing being as close as possible to Yeshua.

Why not ask of Yeshua ( Jesus): Lord is it good between you and me? Is there something I should be doing, or not doing anymore?  Is there something of your word that my heart need grab onto? Please Lord show me, tell  me, help me.

Don't be seeking permission from men to use as excuse for behavior(s), instead seek out God; in prayer, in reading His word, and in thinking upon that word, and then pray yet again. Listen to the Holy Spirit bring about awareness of the word of God. The Bible has guidance that the Spirit will share but one has to at least prayerfully read it.

[The_Patriot21]

2 hours ago, phoneman-777 said:

When did Jesus drink wine?

The last supper. It's likely he had wine at the marriage feast where he turned water to wine. Even if he didn't, he certainly wouldn't enable people to sin, it would be against his nature.

The apostle Paul also prescribed wine to Timothy to help treat an ailing stomach.

 

 

 

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

I hear so many preachers say our future sins are already forgiven and that our conduct in this life can never stop us from going to heaven after we get saved.

Is this true or is it not true?
I've seen some of these preachers provided bible verses claiming their point is true.

But so far I haven't seen any bible verses saying this is not true.  If it's not true doesn't that mean people could get saved and in the end not go to heaven?

Edited August 6, 2023 by Stan Murff

[The_Patriot21]

1 hour ago, Stan Murff said:

I hear so many preachers say our future sins are already forgiven and that our conduct in this life can never stop us from going to heaven after we get saved.

Is this true or is it not true?
I've seen some of these preachers provided bible verses claiming their point is true.

But so far I haven't seen any bible verses saying this is not true.  If it's not true doesn't that mean people could get saved and in the end not go to heaven?

I personally don't see why a true Christian would want to test it, true or not.

[SavedOnebyGrace]

I occasionally drink beer. I only drink at home and no more than 1 drink per day, 0 to 2 beers in a week. I drink only when watching a sporting event like baseball. I did not drink at all when I was pre-diabetic.