What are the Dangers of the Judgemental side of David's life in the Bible?

[bartmac123]

David can be seen as a warrior-King chosen by God to lead Israel.

In 2 Samuel 8, we see David bringing judgment upon the enemies of Israel in a playful arbitrary manner like a vigilante does in comic books. ( Extrajudicial actions )

2 Samuel 8:1-3

Now after this it came about that David [a]defeated the Philistines and subdued them; and David took control of the chief city from the hand of the Philistines.

2 He defeated Moab, and measured them with the line, making them lie down on the ground; and he measured two lines to put to death and one full line to keep alive. And the Moabites became servants to David, bringing tribute.

3 Then David [d]defeated Hadadezer, the son of Rehob king of Zobah, as he went to restore his rule at the [f]River.......

Psalm 109 which is well-known for it's imprecatory nature was either directly/indirectly authored by David himself. Psalm 109's verses are very aggressively judgemental and cursing in nature:

Psalm 109:9

Let his children be fatherless And his wife a widow.

Psalm 109:11

Let the creditor seize all that he has, And let strangers plunder the product of his labor.

David declares judgment upon the Amalekite who (despite falsely) claiming that he himself killed Saul

13 David said to the young man who told him, “Where are you from?” And he [d]answered, “I am the son of an alien, an Amalekite.” 14 Then David said to him, “How is it you were not afraid to stretch out your hand to destroy the Lord’s anointed?” 15 And David called one of the young men and said, “Go, [e]cut him down.” So he struck him and he died. 16 David said to him, “Your blood is on your head, for your mouth has testified against you, saying, ‘I have killed the Lord’s anointed.’”

Here is the irony, David even at first unknowingly declares judgment upon himself after Nathan talks about the Traveller's parable to David:

(2 Samuel 12:5-6)

5 Then David’s anger burned greatly against the man, and he said to Nathan, “As the Lord lives, surely the man who has done this [a]deserves to die. 6 He must make restitution for the lamb fourfold, because he did this thing and had no compassion.”

What are the Dangers of the Judgemental side of David's life in the Bible?

[AdHoc]

2 hours ago, bartmac123 said:

David can be seen as a warrior-King chosen by God to lead Israel.

In 2 Samuel 8, we see David bringing judgment upon the enemies of Israel in a playful arbitrary manner like a vigilante does in comic books. ( Extrajudicial actions )

2 Samuel 8:1-3

Now after this it came about that David [a]defeated the Philistines and subdued them; and David took control of the chief city from the hand of the Philistines.

2 He defeated Moab, and measured them with the line, making them lie down on the ground; and he measured two lines to put to death and one full line to keep alive. And the Moabites became servants to David, bringing tribute.

3 Then David [d]defeated Hadadezer, the son of Rehob king of Zobah, as he went to restore his rule at the [f]River.......

Psalm 109 which is well-known for it's imprecatory nature was either directly/indirectly authored by David himself. Psalm 109's verses are very aggressively judgemental and cursing in nature:

Psalm 109:9

Let his children be fatherless And his wife a widow.

Psalm 109:11

Let the creditor seize all that he has, And let strangers plunder the product of his labor.

David declares judgment upon the Amalekite who (despite falsely) claiming that he himself killed Saul

13 David said to the young man who told him, “Where are you from?” And he [d]answered, “I am the son of an alien, an Amalekite.” 14 Then David said to him, “How is it you were not afraid to stretch out your hand to destroy the Lord’s anointed?” 15 And David called one of the young men and said, “Go, [e]cut him down.” So he struck him and he died. 16 David said to him, “Your blood is on your head, for your mouth has testified against you, saying, ‘I have killed the Lord’s anointed.’”

Here is the irony, David even at first unknowingly declares judgment upon himself after Nathan talks about the Traveller's parable to David:

(2 Samuel 12:5-6)

5 Then David’s anger burned greatly against the man, and he said to Nathan, “As the Lord lives, surely the man who has done this [a]deserves to die. 6 He must make restitution for the lamb fourfold, because he did this thing and had no compassion.”

What are the Dangers of the Judgemental side of David's life in the Bible?

You have posed a good question for those living in the age of God's reconciliation.

The Greek word "oikonomia", found seven times in the New Testament, and translated four times as "dispensation", has been largely misunderstood. "Oikonomia" means "household management" and conjures the picture of a mother "dispensing" the supplies she has to her family. Dispensationalists compounded the error by giving God's "dispensing" time frames. "Dispensation" really means a manner of God's "household management" over men.

God's dispensing of justice and judgment among the Gentiles is by conscience (Rom.2). God's dispensation among Israel was a set of about 615 Laws. By its very nature, Law demands judgment. Law measures a man's failure, and, as Romans 7 explains, "condemns" (vs.10-13). Thus, David propensity to administer judgment was fully in accordance with the God's "dispensation". God's dispensation among the Church is "grace" (Jn.1:17). God wants reconciliation with mankind and immediate justice is counter-productive. So God does not cancel judgment, but defers it, and in the interim He gives man time to consider his ways. the disciple of the lord Jesus must forego judgment, but the disciple of Moses must react promptly to administer God's justice.

I don't think that David was without fault, but this is God's appreciation of David;

 5 Because David did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, and turned not aside from any thing that he commanded him all the days of his life, save only in the matter of Uriah the Hittite. (1st Ki.15:4–5)

 

[bartmac123]

1 hour ago, AdHoc said:

You have posed a good question for those living in the age of God's reconciliation.

The Greek word "oikonomia", found seven times in the New Testament, and translated four times as "dispensation", has been largely misunderstood. "Oikonomia" means "household management" and conjures the picture of a mother "dispensing" the supplies she has to her family. Dispensationalists compounded the error by giving God's "dispensing" time frames. "Dispensation" really means a manner of God's "household management" over men.

God's dispensing of justice and judgment among the Gentiles is by conscience (Rom.2). God's dispensation among Israel was a set of about 615 Laws. By its very nature, Law demands judgment. Law measures a man's failure, and, as Romans 7 explains, "condemns" (vs.10-13). Thus, David propensity to administer judgment was fully in accordance with the God's "dispensation". God's dispensation among the Church is "grace" (Jn.1:17). God wants reconciliation with mankind and immediate justice is counter-productive. So God does not cancel judgment, but defers it, and in the interim He gives man time to consider his ways. the disciple of the lord Jesus must forego judgment, but the disciple of Moses must react promptly to administer God's justice.

I don't think that David was without fault, but this is God's appreciation of David;

 5 Because David did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, and turned not aside from any thing that he commanded him all the days of his life, save only in the matter of Uriah the Hittite. (1st Ki.15:4–5)

 

@AdHoc Thanks. However, I would like to propose a counterargument.

 

David's life in the Bible serves as an example of how we as Christians should be cautious about being Judgemental and/or being involved in doling/meting out judgements/justice, and the dangers of being judgemental withOut being careful.

David declares judgement upon himself after Nathan talks about the Traveller's parable to David:

Quote

 

(2 Samuel 12:5-6)

5 Then David’s anger burned greatly against the man, and he said to Nathan, “As the Lord lives, surely the man who has done this [a]deserves to die. 6 He must make restitution for the lamb fourfold, because he did this thing and had no compassion.”

 

 

It's important to note that David's vigilante playful justice seems come back to haunt his descendant's like Solomon, and the nation Israel which is suggested in 1 Kings 11:15-25 passage

Quote

 

(1 Kings 11:15-25)

15 For it came about, when David was in Edom, and Joab the commander of the army had gone up to bury the slain, and had struck down every male in Edom 16 (for Joab and all Israel stayed there six months, until he had cut off every male in Edom), 17 that Hadad fled [h]to Egypt, he and certain Edomites of his father’s servants with him, while Hadad was a young boy.........................more scripture....scripture........... 21 But when Hadad heard in Egypt that David slept with his fathers and that Joab the commander of the army was dead, Hadad said to Pharaoh, “Send me away, that I may go to my own country.” 22 Then Pharaoh said to him, “But what have you lacked with me, that behold, you are seeking to go to your own country?” And he answered, “Nothing; nevertheless you must surely [c]let me go.” 23 God also raised up another adversary to him, Rezon the son of Eliada, who had fled from his lord Hadadezer king of Zobah. 24 He gathered men to himself and became leader of a marauding band, after David slew them of Zobah; and they went to Damascus and stayed [d]there, and reigned in Damascus. 25 So he was an adversary to Israel all the days of Solomon, along with the evil that Hadad did; and he abhorred Israel and reigned over Aram.

 

 

I suppose the following bible passage and scripture verses come to mind as well:

Quote

 

Matthew 7:1-5

“Do not judge so that you will not be judged. 2 For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and [a]by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. 3 Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ and behold, the log is in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.

Luke 6:37

“Do not judge, and you will not be judged; and do not condemn, and you will not be condemned; [a]pardon, and you will be pardoned.

Proverbs 14:29

He who is slow to anger has great understanding, But he who is [a]quick-tempered exalts folly.

Proverbs 16:32

He who is slow to anger is better than the mighty, And he who rules his spirit, than he who captures a city.

Proverbs 14:17

A quick-tempered man acts foolishly, And a man of evil devices is hated.

Psalm 103:8

The Lord is compassionate and gracious, Slow to anger and abounding in lovingkindness.

 

 

Essentially, passing judgment is Not something we Christians should do lightly or in a willy-nilly manner.

Also, I suppose it's a lesson for Christians to Not speak in a overly sanctimonious, preachy and/or holier-than-thou manner.

[AdHoc]

9 minutes ago, bartmac123 said:

Thanks. However, I would like to propose a counterargument.

 

David's life in the Bible serves as an example of how we as Christians should be cautious about being Judgemental and/or being involved in doling/meting out judgements/justice, and the dangers of being judgemental withOut being careful.

David declares judgement upon himself after Nathan talks about the Traveller's parable to David:

Thanks for your reply. David's life does indeed teach many lessons. And the Christian would be served by reading them. My first posting actually did not address your point. For this I apologize. David's judgments should be examined for their lessons, but I think that the average Christian will not, in this age, be in the same position as David was - that is, ruling a nation by Law and defending this nation against surrounding enemies.

This of course does not excuse David's mistakes, but as a king under Covenant of Law he HAD to act in judgment. In the next age when the Overcomers are co-kings with Christ (Lk.19:17-19) they will judge the Nations and angels (1st Cor.6). It will be their duty. Matthew 7 is valid for the disciple in this age. I think that we could make a study of each of Davids judgments and disagree to some extent with David, and each other.

What would you judge if you had a case like 1st Corinthians 5?

Go well.

[AnOrangeCat]

6 hours ago, AdHoc said:

Thus, David propensity to administer judgment was fully in accordance with the God's "dispensation". God's dispensation among the Church is "grace" (Jn.1:17). God wants reconciliation with mankind and immediate justice is counter-productive. So God does not cancel judgment, but defers it, and in the interim He gives man time to consider his ways. the disciple of the lord Jesus must forego judgment, but the disciple of Moses must react promptly to administer God's justice.

I don't think that David was without fault, but this is God's appreciation of David;

 5 Because David did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, and turned not aside from any thing that he commanded him all the days of his life, save only in the matter of Uriah the Hittite. (1st Ki.15:4–5)

 

This is pretty much my take on it as well. David was called a man after God's own heart. More often than not he was doing right by God, with the obvious exception. By our modern standards some of the deeds listed in the OP may seem cruel or harsh but that was life at the time. We're also not privy to the full scale of the deeds of the ones he punished, but we do know that Israel's neighbors were often aggressive, wicked, and deeply idolatrous.

I do think there's a bit more to take home from all of this anyway. David was someone in authority. That comes with the temptation to abuse it, and even someone so highly regarded by God succumbed to that and made a big mistake.

[com7fy8]

There were times when the LORD told the Jews to kill every human and animal in an enemy city.

And when they left or kept people or animals alive, there was trouble because of that.

This could symbolize how now we need to get rid of every sort of evil thing that is attacking or acting in our personalities.

"Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice." (Ephesians 4:31)

"Do all things without complaining and disputing," (Philippians 2:14)

Do not allow any anti-Jesus stuff to get started in us!!

"For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?" (1 Peter 4:17)

 

[BibleStudent100]

14 hours ago, AdHoc said:

God wants reconciliation with mankind and immediate justice is counter-productive.

I enjoy this comment, AdHoc.  It speaks to those faithful Christians who have been waiting for decades for God to end this wicked system of things. However, God shows more tolerance and patience to give more humans time to change their ways and although some of us may view God's justice as "slow," the Bible reminds us in 2 Peter 3:9, that "God is not slow concerning his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does not desire anyone to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance."   Just as children view time differently than do older people (remember how long a school year was to us as children, versus how soon June of next year will be for us), God views the passage of time differently than we do and our challenge is to rely patiently on His time-frame, even if "justice" seems to be more "immediate" than it is.

 

 

 

[BibleStudent100]

5 hours ago, com7fy8 said:

This could symbolize how now we need to get rid of every sort of evil thing that is attacking or acting in our personalities.

Well stated Com7.  Just as an Israelite could have said, "what harm does this cat or dog pose, so why don't I let it live?"   But in those instances when God declared that all humans and animals were to be killed, He meant it!  In a similar way, we may have a personality trait that exhibits some vestiges of "worldliness," but it must be rooted out.  I personally am working on avoiding violence in the movies I watch, which is why my Netflix account has many movies started, but which I abandon watching as the violence is too much.  I'm just trying to improve in my personal application of these principles.  

[AdHoc]

16 hours ago, AnOrangeCat said:

This is pretty much my take on it as well. David was called a man after God's own heart. More often than not he was doing right by God, with the obvious exception. By our modern standards some of the deeds listed in the OP may seem cruel or harsh but that was life at the time. We're also not privy to the full scale of the deeds of the ones he punished, but we do know that Israel's neighbors were often aggressive, wicked, and deeply idolatrous.

I do think there's a bit more to take home from all of this anyway. David was someone in authority. That comes with the temptation to abuse it, and even someone so highly regarded by God succumbed to that and made a big mistake.

 

13 hours ago, com7fy8 said:

There were times when the LORD told the Jews to kill every human and animal in an enemy city.

And when they left or kept people or animals alive, there was trouble because of that.

This could symbolize how now we need to get rid of every sort of evil thing that is attacking or acting in our personalities.

"Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice." (Ephesians 4:31)

"Do all things without complaining and disputing," (Philippians 2:14)

Do not allow any anti-Jesus stuff to get started in us!!

"For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?" (1 Peter 4:17)

 

 

8 hours ago, BibleStudent100 said:

I enjoy this comment, AdHoc.  It speaks to those faithful Christians who have been waiting for decades for God to end this wicked system of things. However, God shows more tolerance and patience to give more humans time to change their ways and although some of us may view God's justice as "slow," the Bible reminds us in 2 Peter 3:9, that "God is not slow concerning his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does not desire anyone to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance."   Just as children view time differently than do older people (remember how long a school year was to us as children, versus how soon June of next year will be for us), God views the passage of time differently than we do and our challenge is to rely patiently on His time-frame, even if "justice" seems to be more "immediate" than it is.

 

 

 

Each posting above has much light. Thank you.  Let me propose something. If you study the sins of the Gentiles (and Israel when they wandered off) you will notice two things;

1. Many of the sins were an attack on the very first promise from God - the seed of the woman in Genesis 3:15. Angels mixing with human women, homosexuality, murder, forbidding marriage, war and  bestiality all pollute or hinder the generation of pure man kind. Noah found favor because his generations were perfect. This means that he came from a line where genuine humans were generated. For this reason God destroyed every man except eight at Noah's time. And it is for this same reason that God gave Joshua and the following Leaders of Israel the order to wipe out whole populations and animals. They had all been involved in sins that tampered with genealogy.

2. Many of the sins polluted the earth (e.g. Num.35:33, Ps.106:38). You can see that when blood is shed, whether in murder or human sacrifice to idols, only blood can cleanse the land. One can see how God thinks of the Land. His Law gives the Land her Sabbaths. And when Joshua conquered Canaan God let him do it slowly lest there be a vacuum of ruling and the beasts ruled the earth (Ex.23:29).

God has set aside a set time, basically from John Baptist to the rapture, where He defers judgment to give men time to repent and be trained for the coming Kingdom. Paul is a prime example. He committed the most heinous of crimes - the slaughter of Christians. For, to strike a blow against man is to strike a blow at God (Gen.9:6). And a blow against a Christian is a blow at Christ - as Paul found out. This will not go unanswered. For a cup of water a man can go to the Lake of Fire (Matt.25:31-46). But God sent His Son for (i) the "sin" (singular) of the WORLD - Jn.1.29, and (ii) for the "sins" (plural) of the WORLD - 1st Jn.2:2. The deserved blows that any man who disrespects Jehovah were to have received, have landed on Jesus. Now God presents Jesus via our gospel and gives man TIME to consider. In this, the disciple of Jesus is asked to bear blows and not call for retribution.

But be sure of one thing. the DAY is coming in which all who withheld even a cup of water from a Christian or a Jew will pay richly for this indiscretion. "The smoke of their torment ... for ever and ever!" 

[BibleStudent100]

14 hours ago, AdHoc said:

And it is for this same reason that God gave Joshua and the following Leaders of Israel the order to wipe out whole populations and animals. They had all been involved in sins that tampered with genealogy.

Fascinating take on this AdHoc; this is new insight for me, especially regarding the "tamper with genealogy" concept, or might I edit as "tamper with reproduction."  God takes very seriously the importance of life being transported through reproduction and this process must be honored and highly respected (no doubt the basis for women's menstruation cycle instructions in the OT as well).   Homosexuality, bestiality, sex outside of marriage, orgies etc. would fall into the category of a misuse of reproduction.

 

 

14 hours ago, AdHoc said:

And when Joshua conquered Canaan God let him do it slowly lest there be a vacuum of ruling and the beasts ruled the earth (Ex.23:29)

I do not remember this verse, but yes, it is so logical!  Killing off the wicked nations too quickly after the 40 years of wandering in the Desert would create a “power-vacuum” and lead to political and even cultural chaos.  Even a wicked nation does provide some institutions and public services for its people, even back in those days.  Again, the need for patience in waiting upon God to exact His vengeance.

 

 

 

14 hours ago, AdHoc said:

God has set aside a set time, basically from John Baptist to the rapture, where He defers judgment to give men time to repent and be trained for the coming Kingdom.

 

Regarding another example to support this understanding concerns the Amalekites who were a group of marauders who harassed the Israelites for centuries.  Interestingly, they were condemned to extinction by God as early as Exodus 17:14, BUT it took until the time of Esther (Esther 3:1) to see the extermination of this group of people from history, both Biblical and secular.  This is just one more example of the patience required by us all when we see the injustices of this world.