Is this Correct Teaching???

[DeighAnn]

1 minute ago, Stan Murff said:

WHO's writings are you referring to?

GODS

[Your closest friendnt]

9 hours ago, Stan Murff said:

So you believe one can still be saved and live in sin?

Sounds like you do even though there are warnings directly to Christians saying living in sin will prevent them from going to Heaven unless of course they repent and turn away from their sin.

If turning away from one's sin is "works" then this means one CAN living in sin and still be saved because turning away from your sin would be trying to earn your salvation according to the OSAS loud crowd.

Many of the things you are saying are interesting and seek to asked for further clarification...

One think that you bring up is that keep saying: this man is saying this and that man is saying that is not the way to established something with clarity. And there always will be arguments and counter-aŕguments. 

We need to identify the issues at hand.  One of them is that Jesus Christ who died for the forgiveness of our sins is our peace with the Heavenly Father. 

Yes Jesus Christ wants us to do good works and good works that validates also our repentance...no matter what he wants us to do good works, but not as to have our peace with the Heavenly Father,  because we have Peace with the Heavenly Father because we believe that Jesus Christ died for the forgiveness of our sins.  

 

Edited August 19, 2023 by Your closest friendnt

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

4 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

GODS

God's Word is good obviously.

But many draw their conclusions by cherry picking a few verses that fit their preconceived ideas and ignore the rest of God's Word.

This is how I found out that once saved always saved is in fact false doctrine because there are warnings in the New Testament directed at Christians teaching it is entirely possible for one to lose their salvation.

Just study the Book of Galatians where the Lord spoke thru the Apostle Paul saying these people had "fallen from grace" because they were Jews who were being pressured to quit following the teachings of Jesus and go back to the law of Moses.

If one had never been saved in the first place, they cannot fall from grace... so, unless someone wants to denigrate the character of the Lord and question His integrity and truthfulness and say God's Word is false...

Then this is an example of some folks were were born again and then they turned away from the Lord and the result was they lost their salvation by doing so. 

Meaning, if they do not confess and forsake their sin (Prov 28:13, 1 John 1:9) and get right with the Lord... they will go to hell when they die and they will have no mercy.

This is because God is NOT mocked what we sow is what we reap and if we sow to the flesh we shall of the flesh reap corruption spoken of in Gal 6:7,8

Edited August 19, 2023 by Stan Murff

[AdHoc]

18 hours ago, Stan Murff said:

So you believe one can still be saved and live in sin?

Sounds like you do even though there are warnings directly to Christians saying living in sin will prevent them from going to Heaven unless of course they repent and turn away from their sin.

If turning away from one's sin is "works" then this means one CAN living in sin and still be saved because turning away from your sin would be trying to earn your salvation according to the OSAS loud crowd.

I think that if you had read my postings you would not pose a question like that. But it is an interesting question. You join salvation and works - "salvation and living in sin"

You consistently avoid answering my points - which is your right - but it is not conducive to getting to the bottom of the matter. I'll try your style and answer you with a question. Let's see if it works in reverse.

Everything must be established by two or more witnesses. So give me two verses - from the whole Bible, which say that you are saved if you go to heaven. For such a grand doctrine I will accept verses that state it plainly. Obscure verses and verses that need to be interpreted won't do. We see how plain and clear the ten commandments are. How about plain and clear statements that a man saved goes to heaven?

If you suddenly find that there are none, I'll let you off on one condition. You must answer me how those Christians who have built God's House incorrectly in 1st Corinthians 3 could be burned but still saved, and how the incestuous brother of Chapter 5 gets his "spirit saved" though he commits this crime.

Of course, if you only here to provoke, but have nothing to contribute, that is also okay. The others can then go about other business.

[Vine Abider]

13 hours ago, Stan Murff said:

God's Word is good obviously.

But many draw their conclusions by cherry picking a few verses that fit their preconceived ideas and ignore the rest of God's Word.

This is how I found out that once saved always saved is in fact false doctrine because there are warnings in the New Testament directed at Christians teaching it is entirely possible for one to lose their salvation.

Just study the Book of Galatians where the Lord spoke thru the Apostle Paul saying these people had "fallen from grace" because they were Jews who were being pressured to quit following the teachings of Jesus and go back to the law of Moses.

If one had never been saved in the first place, they cannot fall from grace... so, unless someone wants to denigrate the character of the Lord and question His integrity and truthfulness and say God's Word is false...

Then this is an example of some folks were were born again and then they turned away from the Lord and the result was they lost their salvation by doing so. 

Meaning, if they do not confess and forsake their sin (Prov 28:13, 1 John 1:9) and get right with the Lord... they will go to hell when they die and they will have no mercy.

This is because God is NOT mocked what we sow is what we reap and if we sow to the flesh we shall of the flesh reap corruption spoken of in Gal 6:7,8

Could it be that "cherry picking" applies to the one making that categorization?

5 hours ago, AdHoc said:

I think that if you had read my postings you would not pose a question like that. But it is an interesting question. You join salvation and works - "salvation and living in sin"

You consistently avoid answering my points - which is your right - but it is not conducive to getting to the bottom of the matter. I'll try your style and answer you with a question. Let's see if it works in reverse.

Everything must be established by two or more witnesses. So give me two verses - from the whole Bible, which say that you are saved if you go to heaven. For such a grand doctrine I will accept verses that state it plainly. Obscure verses and verses that need to be interpreted won't do. We see how plain and clear the ten commandments are. How about plain and clear statements that a man saved goes to heaven?

If you suddenly find that there are none, I'll let you off on one condition. You must answer me how those Christians who have built God's House incorrectly in 1st Corinthians 3 could be burned but still saved, and how the incestuous brother of Chapter 5 gets his "spirit saved" though he commits this crime.

Of course, if you only here to provoke, but have nothing to contribute, that is also okay. The others can then go about other business.

Hear! Hear! And well said brother - I'm waiting to hear something which contributes effectively as well . . .

[Mike Mclees]

So you believe one can still be saved and live in sin?

Sounds like you do even though there are warnings directly to Christians saying living in sin will prevent them from going to Heaven unless of course they repent and turn away from their sin.

This deserves a direct answer that Jesus stated himself in Matt 24: 48-51. It doesn't get more plain this. 

And if that evil servant shall say in his heart  my Lord delayith His coming; and shall begin to smite his fellow servants, and begin and to eat and drink with the drunken, the Lord of that servant shall come in a day he looketh not for Him and in an hour he is not aware of, and shall cut him asunder, and shall appoint him his portion with the hypocrites : there shall be weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth.    

 

[Vine Abider]

10 minutes ago, Mike Mclees said:

So you believe one can still be saved and live in sin?

Sounds like you do even though there are warnings directly to Christians saying living in sin will prevent them from going to Heaven unless of course they repent and turn away from their sin.

This deserves a direct answer that Jesus stated himself in Matt 24: 48-51. It doesn't get more plain this. 

And if that evil servant shall say in his heart  my Lord delayith His coming; and shall begin to smite his fellow servants, and begin and to eat and drink with the drunken, the Lord of that servant shall come in a day he looketh not for Him and in an hour he is not aware of, and shall cut him asunder, and shall appoint him his portion with the hypocrites : there shall be weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth.    

 

Some take that to mean that the believer is then eternally lost.  This is impossible, because what has been born-again of God's own life at regeneration cannot be unborn.  What is happening in the verse you cite is a severe and painful punishment for this one's works as per 1st Corinthians 3:15 which says the believers works are judged, but that one is still saved:   If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

[Mike Mclees]

28 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

Some take that to mean that the believer is then eternally lost.  This is impossible, because what has been born-again of God's own life at regeneration cannot be unborn.  What is happening in the verse you cite is a severe and painful punishment for this one's works as per 1st Corinthians 3:15 which says the believers works are judged, but that one is still saved:   If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

Yes is sounds that way, but I am not going to counter Jesus. You might also recall Jesus saying "Not all who say Lord Lord shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, but those who do the will of the Father." Perhaps we should pray about these things.

[Your closest friendnt]

25 minutes ago, Mike Mclees said:

Yes is sounds that way, but I am not going to counter Jesus. You might also recall Jesus saying "Not all who say Lord Lord shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, but those who do the will of the Father." Perhaps we should pray about these things.

 

1 hour ago, Mike Mclees said:

So you believe one can still be saved and live in sin?

Sounds like you do even though there are warnings directly to Christians saying living in sin will prevent them from going to Heaven unless of course they repent and turn away from their sin.

This deserves a direct answer that Jesus stated himself in Matt 24: 48-51. It doesn't get more plain this. 

And if that evil servant shall say in his heart  my Lord delayith His coming; and shall begin to smite his fellow servants, and begin and to eat and drink with the drunken, the Lord of that servant shall come in a day he looketh not for Him and in an hour he is not aware of, and shall cut him asunder, and shall appoint him his portion with the hypocrites : there shall be weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth.    

 

Jesus said that to people who were in the Covenant of Sinai and particular address the people who had been a position to uphold and teach the law or having some responsibility as quardians of the things of God...that could apply to the elders and the leaders of the people...does not matter who they were...

Not all of the trusted servants did what this particular servant did...just some of them, as this servant seems to represent others who may have the same mind and attitude as the one pointed out.

Because this example was said within the Sinai Covenant and before the Gospel was preached "the principle of faith in Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of our sins is not brought up...and thus the man was judged according to his doing..not upholding the duty of the office he was given to represent...it's like a public servant in our times who abuses the duty of trust that he swear to uphold and gives himself up to corruption and when uncover he was dealt with according to the Law...

Notice that the words spoken to him that from being a vessel of trust now he is spoken of being a vessel of mistrust and abuse and he was name and label as an : hypocrite. And he was stripped from his position infront of all the people and he was dishonor and was cut off from the body of the righteous servants and is label as an hypocrite...

This was said by Jesus Christ to the leaders and teachers of the people and to the public at hand...so when those things will take place the people will get to know not to blindly follow their leaders but to give hid to what the disciples of Jesus Christ had to say to them as in the day of Pentecost when they preached the Gospel to them and when the Holy Spirit had come not only to empower the disciples and the words they delivered to people but also to open the ears and open the eyes of those who heard the Gospel that day and opened their hearts to recieve the words of truth and believed.  

Jesus when he spoke that story did not mentioned repentance as Peter did on the day of Pentecost because that was said before the New Covenant and in the Old Covenant where judgment was often pass and without the element of repentance and forgiveness and reconciliation back to God because of the system in the Sinai Covenant where for many things...repentance was not available but only the judgment as it was codified in the Law...

[Mike Mclees]

24 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

 

Jesus said that to people who were in the Covenant of Sinai and particular address the people who had been a position to uphold and teach the law or having some responsibility as quardians of the things of God...that could apply to the elders and the leaders of the people...does not matter who they were...

Not all of the trusted servants did what this particular servant did...just some of them, as this servant seems to represent others who may have the same mind and attitude as the one pointed out.

Because this example was said within the Sinai Covenant and before the Gospel was preached "the principle of faith in Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of our sins is not brought up...and thus the man was judged according to his doing..not upholding the duty of the office he was given to represent...it's like a public servant in our times who abuses the duty of trust that he swear to uphold and gives himself up to corruption and when uncover he was dealt with according to the Law...

Notice that the words spoken to him that from being a vessel of trust now he is spoken of being a vessel of mistrust and abuse and he was name and label as an : hypocrite. And he was stripped from his position infront of all the people and he was dishonor and was cut off from the body of the righteous servants and is label as an hypocrite...

This was said by Jesus Christ to the leaders and teachers of the people and to the public at hand...so when those things will take place the people will get to know not to blindly follow their leaders but to give hid to what the disciples of Jesus Christ had to say to them as in the day of Pentecost when they preached the Gospel to them and when the Holy Spirit had come not only to empower the disciples and the words they delivered to people but also to open the ears and open the eyes of those who heard the Gospel that day and opened their hearts to recieve the words of truth and believed.  

Jesus when he spoke that story did not mentioned repentance as Peter did on the day of Pentecost because that was said before the New Covenant and in the Old Covenant where judgment was often pass and without the element of repentance and forgiveness and reconciliation back to God because of the system in the Sinai Covenant where for many things...repentance was not available but only the judgment as it was codified in the Law...

Who was Jesus speaking to in  Matt 24 ? Was it not to the disciples? weren't they asking about the things of the end which was in the future. Jesus was speaking figuratively to the present-day believers about the future church that they would be teaching.

Edited August 19, 2023 by Mike Mclees