Eternal Salvation – From the Perspective of Life

[Vine Abider]

58 minutes ago, Yes, and said:

And...I'm still waiting for anyone (anyone?) who has not contributed to this thread to tell us they have been edified and encouraged by it.

Unfortunately, that really is a bottom-line observation, isn't it!? 

What I hoped might be a productive discussion which would build us up (as we considered the eternal salvation topic in the word from different perspectives), I've been quite surprised at some of the intense and passionate reactions!  Overall, it appears to have resulted in almost the opposite of what I intended, with numerous misunderstandings, the digging in of heels and accusations leveled at fellow saints. . .

Unless things come back to level and to have at least some semblance of being edifying on this thread soon, I think I might request that it be closed. (after all is said and done, we know that "knowledge will cease . . . but love never fails" and that's what's really important)

[FreeGrace]

8 hours ago, Yes, and said:

I like your response (truly) even as I would not so much disagree as I would suggest it does not fully take into account too much else of the Word which some would use as proof texts in arguing for the Calvinist's TULIP. 

Interestingly, regarding TULIP, none of the 5 doctrines can unambiguously be found in Scripture, unless one understands the "P" meaning preservation, as in eternal security.  As to th others, there are unambiguous verses that actually REFUTE the other 4, and the "P" if it means "perseverance".

8 hours ago, Yes, and said:

Look, I'm certain what I believe is not absolutely correct even as I can at the same time live in strong conviction about some things

I am certain that you say you "believe the Bible", as all Christians should say.  But, does your statement above apply to 'believing the Bible'?  iow, are you just not real certain what what you believe the Bible to say is correct??

Just trying to understand your views.

People generally believe what they think is true, or right, or correct.  If someone is not sure about what the Bible says, then they can't "believe the Bible".

I think everyone WANTS to be right, correct.  I sure do.  So when someone posts something that I haven't found in the Bible, and ask them where that is taught/said in the Bible, I am asking for correction.  However, most times, I get ignored, or told (judged) that I really don't want the truth or am able to grasp the truth.

I find it odd when people insult someone who is asking for evidence with which to believe something.   Maybe that's just a clue that they really don't have the truth, and they really do know that, but just won't admit it.  They are too tied up in their "own truth".  

So I gladly point out that the truth ALWAYS has an answer.   
 

[Yes, and]

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

Interestingly, regarding TULIP, none of the 5 doctrines can unambiguously be found in Scripture, unless one understands the "P" meaning preservation, as in eternal security.  As to th others, there are unambiguous verses that actually REFUTE the other 4, and the "P" if it means "perseverance".

I am certain that you say you "believe the Bible", as all Christians should say.  But, does your statement above apply to 'believing the Bible'?  iow, are you just not real certain what what you believe the Bible to say is correct??

Just trying to understand your views.

People generally believe what they think is true, or right, or correct.  If someone is not sure about what the Bible says, then they can't "believe the Bible".

I think everyone WANTS to be right, correct.  I sure do.  So when someone posts something that I haven't found in the Bible, and ask them where that is taught/said in the Bible, I am asking for correction.  However, most times, I get ignored, or told (judged) that I really don't want the truth or am able to grasp the truth.

I find it odd when people insult someone who is asking for evidence with which to believe something.   Maybe that's just a clue that they really don't have the truth, and they really do know that, but just won't admit it.  They are too tied up in their "own truth".  

So I gladly point out that the truth ALWAYS has an answer.   
 

I'll respond when I have more time, but would suggest maybe make this a new thread, because it's a theme unto itself(?), and because:

10 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

Unless things come back to level and to have at least some semblance of being edifying on this thread soon, I think I might request that it be closed. (after all is said and done, we know that "knowledge will cease . . . but love never fails" and that's what's really important)

(Amen, @Vine Abider to your whole post.)

[Your closest friendnt]

"Before the foundation of the world the Heavenly Father had proposed to himself to have children justified by the blood of the Slain Lamb of God". 

As long as we live we are invited to believe in Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of our sins. This is why the Gospel is preached to all, even to those who are about to die and they are asked to believe before they take their last breath. Many things are important but the most important thing is that someone dies believing in Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of his sins then he is not in his sins when he dies. He dies justified by the blood of the Slain Lamb of God Jesus Christ. He dies in the righteousness of Jesus Christ. 

Anyone who dies in unbelief (whether had at some time in the past believed or not) he dies in his sins.  He is not in Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is not his peace with the Heavenly Father.  He does not have the Heavenly Father...there is no scripture that say that anyone can have the Heavenly Father who has died without having his sins forgiven by the blood of the Slain Lamb of God. 

Important is to die with Jesus Christ faith in one's heart. That at the time of one's death he believed in Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of his sins. 

(That includes that is spoken about those who have heard the Gospel and have decided not to believe, whether someone had believed before or not).

 

Edited August 28, 2023 by Your closest friendnt

[Mike Mclees]

16 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

It's grieving to read those words . . .

I think what you stated here is a strawman (as that's not my stance at all), but I believe the bigger question between us is this:  Can we just put this aside bro, have the Lord's table together and celebrate our oneness in Christ?

There is no oneness here in this thread.  

[Vine Abider]

1 minute ago, Mike Mclees said:

There is no oneness here in this thread.  

Correct - our oneness is in Him.

[Mike Mclees]

6 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

Correct - our oneness is in Him.

Actually this thread should be boycotted or shut down.

[Vine Abider]

4 minutes ago, Mike Mclees said:

Actually this thread should be boycotted or shut down.

And I said the same thing (shut down) a few posts earlier - if the conversation continues as it has lately - all hyper critical, etc. Therefore, let us stop passing judgment on one another. Rom 14:13

[Mike Mclees]

4 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

And I said the same thing (shut down) a few posts earlier - if the conversation continues as it has lately.

Well this is the only thing we agree on

[Vine Abider]

6 minutes ago, Mike Mclees said:

Well this is the only thing we agree on

Jesus loves me and you - how 'bout that!?