Doctrine of Imminency

[Dennis1209]

The Doctrine of Imminency.

The seven biblical Feasts of Israel are fascinating. Starting in the spring, they are; Passover, Feast of Unleavened Bread, Feast of the First Fruits, Feast of Weeks, Feast of Trumpets, Day of Atonement, and Feast of Tabernacles.

The first four were completed in order on the exact day; three remain to be fulfilled. A prophetic biblical pattern has emerged. Next to be fulfilled is “the Feast of Trumpets,” usually occurring in September or early October. A two-day Feast with the day and hour uncertain.

Matthew 25:13 (KJV) Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

Many speculate the Rapture could occur during the Feast of Trumpets, based on several scriptures, two of which:

1 Thessalonians 4:16 (KJV) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: [emphasis mine]

1 Thessalonians 5:1 (KJV) But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. [emphasis mine]

This theology violates what is known as the Doctrine of Imminency, that Jesus could return at “any time” for His bride. The apostle Paul thought the harpazo could happen in his day by including a personal pronoun, we.

What are your thoughts?

[TheBlade]

Hey DENNIS! You know I don't know anyone named Dennis...hmm. lol

You know I always like to picture my self back then when Christ was telling US HELLO He was going back to His Fathers house to make us a home so where (Hes in heaven) He is we will be. We all then watched Him go up and.. then the angels told us He is coming back the same way....oh YES! When? Any moment! I know that because walked with Him for years and every time He said He would do something or something would happen it did! 

So what one need to ask me is "why are you always looking up"

[Anne2]

42 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

The Doctrine of Imminency.

The seven biblical Feasts of Israel are fascinating. Starting in the spring, they are; Passover, Feast of Unleavened Bread, Feast of the First Fruits, Feast of Weeks, Feast of Trumpets, Day of Atonement, and Feast of Tabernacles.

The first four were completed in order on the exact day; three remain to be fulfilled. A prophetic biblical pattern has emerged. Next to be fulfilled is “the Feast of Trumpets,” usually occurring in September or early October. A two-day Feast with the day and hour uncertain.

Matthew 25:13 (KJV) Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

Many speculate the Rapture could occur during the Feast of Trumpets, based on several scriptures, two of which:

1 Thessalonians 4:16 (KJV) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: [emphasis mine]

1 Thessalonians 5:1 (KJV) But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. [emphasis mine]

This theology violates what is known as the Doctrine of Imminency, that Jesus could return at “any time” for His bride. The apostle Paul thought the harpazo could happen in his day by including a personal pronoun, we.

What are your thoughts?

My first thought....Has Christ not atoned for our sins? 

[farouk]

39 minutes ago, Anne2 said:

My first thought....Has Christ not atoned for our sins? 

@Anne2 I think the questioner is focusing on the return of Christ for His Church rather than on the atoning sacrifice of Christ at the Cross - wondrous subject though this is.

[AnOrangeCat]

6 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

This theology violates what is known as the Doctrine of Imminency, that Jesus could return at “any time” for His bride. The apostle Paul thought the harpazo could happen in his day by including a personal pronoun, we.

What are your thoughts?

I pay little attention to the rapture these days. I grew up in a home that placed a lot of emphasis on it and I feel like it did more harm than good. That said I do find the topic itself and the different positions on it interesting from a speculative angle so I'll bite.

I'm actually not feeling much contradiction between the two beliefs. If, for the sake of discussion we assume no man knowing the day or the hour is a hint pointing at a general time frame there are still unknown variables. Which day of the Feast of Trumpets, which year, which hour. Those unknown variables still make it so we can't rightly say we know the day or hour. It's all guesswork.

7 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

Next to be fulfilled is “the Feast of Trumpets,” usually occurring in September or early October. A two-day Feast with the day and hour uncertain.

The premise here is something I feel is a little shaky, based on my understanding of Jewish culture. Please do correct me if I'm wrong in this. I know that in certain Christian circles it's said that no one knows the day or the hour, but where does this belief come from? To the best of my knowledge there's no real variance in the day it occurs, it simply appears that way to those of us accustomed to the western calendar. The time of Rosh Hashanah isn't arbitrary. There's clear logic and math to the Jewish calendar, it's just different. The same is true of their reckoning of when a day starts and ends (sunset rather than midnight). Even in the days of Jesus someone who knew the rules of the calendar could calculate the date of any given festival years in advance. If differences between the Jewish way of reckoning time and the western one are where the belief of this festival's uncertain day and hour come from then it could just as well apply to the second sabbath day of the third month, or any other random date.

All that said I do believe the day is a good candidate. The Bible gives us a lot of hints about things to come and things to look for. Despite what I stated above there's symbolism and some other things that make it seem fitting, though I will point out that it's also not the only occasion the Jews have had for these trumpets. There are other events where they're blown.

As a final note actually hearing a shofar is pretty attention getting. Some of them can be a little imposing visually, too.

[Wayne222]

I always go back to Paul who wrote that day will not come till the man of sin is revealed, Christ cannot come at any time. Jesus will come so we are told to occupy till he comes. I think those who think he will come at any moment will not be ready for the world government of the antichrist. And will be surprised. 

[Justin Adams]

Check the date of the writing. 2k years ago. Learn from history passed that is NOT in our future.

[Dennis1209]

4 hours ago, AnOrangeCat said:

I pay little attention to the rapture these days. I grew up in a home that placed a lot of emphasis on it and I feel like it did more harm than good. That said I do find the topic itself and the different positions on it interesting from a speculative angle so I'll bite.

I'm actually not feeling much contradiction between the two beliefs. If, for the sake of discussion we assume no man knowing the day or the hour is a hint pointing at a general time frame there are still unknown variables. Which day of the Feast of Trumpets, which year, which hour. Those unknown variables still make it so we can't rightly say we know the day or hour. It's all guesswork.

The premise here is something I feel is a little shaky, based on my understanding of Jewish culture. Please do correct me if I'm wrong in this. I know that in certain Christian circles it's said that no one knows the day or the hour, but where does this belief come from? To the best of my knowledge there's no real variance in the day it occurs, it simply appears that way to those of us accustomed to the western calendar. The time of Rosh Hashanah isn't arbitrary. There's clear logic and math to the Jewish calendar, it's just different. The same is true of their reckoning of when a day starts and ends (sunset rather than midnight). Even in the days of Jesus someone who knew the rules of the calendar could calculate the date of any given festival years in advance. If differences between the Jewish way of reckoning time and the western one are where the belief of this festival's uncertain day and hour come from then it could just as well apply to the second sabbath day of the third month, or any other random date.

All that said I do believe the day is a good candidate. The Bible gives us a lot of hints about things to come and things to look for. Despite what I stated above there's symbolism and some other things that make it seem fitting, though I will point out that it's also not the only occasion the Jews have had for these trumpets. There are other events where they're blown.

As a final note actually hearing a shofar is pretty attention getting. Some of them can be a little imposing visually, too.

Good morning,

You are better versed on this topic than I am; I’m just starting to learn more about it. You brought up a few points I did not mention for brevity or did not detail. I agree that date setting is to be abstained from, as it harms Christianity and makes us look foolish. I do think there is a prophetic blueprint associated with festivals.

As you mention, there are differences in measurement and thinking between the Western mind and the East, historical and current. I may be mistaken on several things and am open to correction. If I recall, the Feast of Trumpets is set from the lunar cycle; thus, it is either in late September or early October and is calculated and predictable.

If memory serves, the timing of the first shofar (trumpet) is unknown. The last trump blast is the longest and loudest. Technically this is not a date or hour setting, in my opinion. If the first four observances were prophetically fulfilled to the day, I have every reason to believe the next three will be the same.

As a pretribulation believer, we can know the “season” when the Rapture will occur, and I believe this generation is that season. For the first time in history, there is a convergence of everything prophetic for the end-time generation.

Nonetheless, this is interesting to contemplate and look into.

[Ray12614]

5 hours ago, AnOrangeCat said:

As a final note actually hearing a shofar is pretty attention getting. Some of them can be a little imposing visually, too.

I agree . . . IF they are blown with skill . . . I have seen brothers who 'try' to blow shofars and it is a little humerous to watch.

They sound like F troop buglers that can barely get any sound out of them . . . like something is stuck in their shofars . . . . LOL

 

[Anne2]

13 hours ago, farouk said:

@Anne2 I think the questioner is focusing on the return of Christ for His Church rather than on the atoning sacrifice of Christ at the Cross - wondrous subject though this is.

Perhaps that is his focus. But speaking of violating doctrine, as his post did, The theology of Christology is in question for me. The person and work of Christ. His finished work on our behalf. Jesus fulfilled the law.