Rapture: to be or not to be?

[DeighAnn]

23 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

John 3:28,29.  John the Baptist speaking; I am not the Christ but am sent ahead of him.  The bride belongs to the Bridegroom.  The friend who attends the bridegroom, waits and listens for him, and is full of Joy when he hears the bridegrooms voice.

Atheist; where did you come with that term, an atheist is one who does not believe in Christ.  You are a few thousand years off on definitions.  How many unbelieving Hebrews died in the wilderness because of unbelief.  They were not Atheists.

The term Christian was not around till Acts 11:26 - The Disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.  So I have no idea of this complex idea of yours where the 12 tribes of Israel who are/were scattered are considered Christians.  Who's idea is this, not mine.

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

What happened to THE TRIBES OF THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL when they were released from the Assyrian captivity?   WHAT and where have they been since that time? 

 

Not the House of Judah and/or the JEWS.  


You are the one who claims they are NOT THE CHRISTIANS in the world today aka the church.  

If they are not, then who are they???


SIMPLE ENOUGH?

Edited August 29, 2023 by DeighAnn

[Montana Marv]

37 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

4But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Sure isn't the first 12 chapters of Daniel. For Christ quoted Daniel

 

18 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Do you know what I believe instead of pre trib rapture?

Does it matter.  None of the Rapture positions times are in the Scriptures.  No hint's, no reading of things to happen.  What did some of the Thessalonians Christians believed happen or what did they think they had missed. "the Day of the Lord"  (1 Thes 2:2) is what they had thought they had missed because they were under extraordinary persecution.  It looks like those of the early Church were taught that "the Day of the Lord" Rapture precedes the times of great persecution.  If it was the 2nd Coming "Day of the Lord" they would have been in the Mill at that time.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[farouk]

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

Thanks for that but I am still looking for the "BRIDE OF CHRIST" or is that a 'conclusion' of some sort?  

Also if you could address WHAT BECOMES of all the people of the Assyrian captivity who didn't go back to their lands, couldn't go to Jerusalem with it having been conquered and are MULTIPLYING faster than any other nation on the earth? 

Are they all ATHEISTS since they don't know who they are, so clearly cannot be the JEWS nor are they keeping the Law and, and although Christ claims them as His, you claim they are not right?  Are they at their death?  

I would really like to know what you do with 12 tribes of peoples/Israel scattered and sifted throughout the world if you claim they are not Christians.  



 

The bride of Christ refers to the church, rather than to Israel.

[Montana Marv]

18 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

You are the one who claims they are NOT THE CHRISTIANS in the world today aka the church.  

If they are not, then who are they???

Jews, those of Israel.  A few maybe Christians or become Christians, but not the vast majority. 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Montana Marv]

23 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

You are the one who claims they are NOT THE CHRISTIANS in the world today aka the church.  

One must be indwelt with the Holy Spirit to be considered a Christian.  The Holy Spirit gives us the way; One must have been crucified with Christ, Buried in his Baptism, and come up (arise) out of the water to become a Believer, all by the power of the Holy Spirit.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[DeighAnn]

With all the Jews being in Jerusalem when Jesus walked the earth so they were at home, in their temple, with their laws, back to doing as they had always been doing.  At home in their own land.  

HOW Could ANY OF THEM be

EITHER  
LOST OR
SCATTERED?


When did the HOUSE OF JUDAH ever NOT KNOW who they were?  THEY still know what tribe they were from still TO THIS DAY. 

The house of JUDAH WAS IN JERUSALEM, right where they were supposed to be.  


Again, since WHEN is that considered SCATTERED AND LOST?   Oh, that's right, this is THE BIBLE where apparently anything but what actually makes sense is fought for tooth and nail.  These conversations are so incredibly unbelievable.  
 
Now, LETS compare the JEWS Jesus was talking to from the House of Judah

with THE HOUSE of Israel, the 10 Northern tribes, 

Couple of HUNDRED YEARS or so, BEFORE House of Judah WENT INTO CAPTIVITY

The House of Israel did. 

How many years between the time they were released to the time Jesus walked the earth?  

God made it almost impossible to get the two confused.  


Please let me know which ones of these you find incorrect for the situation at hand



 "For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth." Amos 9:9 KJV

Leviticus 26:33 - And I will scatter you among the heathen, and will draw out a sword after you: and your land shall be desolate, and your cities waste. 

Deuteronomy 28:64 - And the LORD shall scatter thee among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which neither thou nor thy fathers have known, even wood and stone. 

Ezekiel 20:23 - I lifted up mine hand unto them also in the wilderness, that I would scatter them among the heathen, and disperse them through the countries; 

Zechariah 7:14 - But I scattered them with a whirlwind among all the nations whom they knew not. Thus the land was desolate after them, that no man passed through nor returned: for they laid the pleasant land desolate. 

James 1:1 - James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting. 


 

[DeighAnn]

25 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

Sure isn't the first 12 chapters of Daniel. For Christ quoted Daniel

Or did Daniel quote Christ.

 

12 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

One must be indwelt with the Holy Spirit to be considered a Christian.  The Holy Spirit gives us the way; One must have been crucified with Christ, Buried in his Baptism, and come up (arise) out of the water to become a Believer, all by the power of the Holy Spirit.

In Christ

Montana Marv

THE WORD made flesh...you are talking semantics,  I am speaking to the TRUTH of what is really happening.  


Thief on the cross?  Christian?  Not according to you, yet going to paradise just the same.  SAVED. 

Abraham Issac Jacob Moses...   BY FAITH...   SAVED...no indwelling of the Holy Spirit

Enoch, Elijah DEFINITELY went to heaven...
 

[Montana Marv]

1 minute ago, DeighAnn said:

Or did Daniel quote Christ.

 

THE WORD made flesh...you are talking semantics,  I am speaking to the TRUTH of what is really happening.  


Thief on the cross?  Christian?  Not according to you, yet going to paradise just the same.  SAVED. 

Abraham Issac Jacob Moses...   BY FAITH...   SAVED...no indwelling of the Holy Spirit

Enoch, Elijah DEFINITELY went to heaven...
 

And what Truth is that.

Thief on the Cross,  Not a Christian,  Not indwelt by the Holy Spirit.  Paradise is where all the Pre New Testament Just/Saints went upon their deaths. They had no way to get to Heaven until the Death, Burial, Resurrection and Ascension of Jesus Christ.

Abraham, Issac, Jacob, Moses, Daniel, Isiah and others were saved by Faith with obedience.  None were indwelt by the Holy Spirit; so none of them can be considered a Christian.  They are part of the group of pre New Testament Saints/Elect.

Enoch and Elijah were exceptions both went to Heaven.  Very, Very Godly.  But are not part of the Church or Bride of Christ.  Well before the Church or Bride of Christ came into existence.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Shilohsfoal]

7 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

And Saul, who later became Paul was one of these individuals.  He was both a persecutor of the Brothers in Christ; then later became one who stood before rulers.

In Christ

Montana Marv

You believe Paul is one of the people in mark 13:9 who kills the saints during the tribulation just before the abomination of desolation is placed in Jerusalem in 13:14.

Well,that would make Paul well over 2000 years old now.Is it your believe Paul will have taken the mark of the beast as well seeing you believe he will be killing the christians in Israel at that time?

 

 

 

 

⁹ But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.

¹⁰ And the gospel must first be published among all nations.

¹¹ But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

¹² Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death.

 

¹³ And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

¹⁴ But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

 

 

You are not able to comprehend the 3 1/2 year tribulation of the saints in mark 13:9-13 that takes place before the abomination of desolation being placed in. Jerusalem in mark 13:14?

Edited August 29, 2023 by Shilohsfoal

[AdHoc]

On 8/25/2023 at 9:41 PM, DeighAnn said:

13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

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51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

55O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

56The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

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And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

16And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

17And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

18That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

19And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

21And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

Do you believe the three verses above are speaking of three different times, 2, or are they all speaking of the same time? 



Please, GIVE the LETTER that is the most correct

A.  Two different times
B.  The same
C. Three different times

 

I will give a letter, but will expand a little because multiple choice questions, because of their narrowness, can be used against the one questioned.

I answer B.

But they all show DIFFERENT events.

1st Thessalonians 4 is a comfort to those who thought the dead would miss the rapture (for only the living are raptured)

1st Corinthians 15 deals with the dead and their resurrection. In resurrection a person receives a new body, not made in the womb. Your verses deal with those Christians who are alive at the time of resurrection and how they get their new body without dying.

Revelation 19 details the physical coming of the Lord with His saints. By this time both the above are completed.

But ... hey. When will you answer my question?

Go well.