Rapture: to be or not to be?

[The Light]

9 hours ago, farouk said:

The bride of Christ refers to the church, rather than to Israel.

Jacob had two brides, Leah and the chosen bride Rachel. There are two brides. The first bride is the Church. 

[Revelation Man]

19 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

I do not disconnect the Old Testament FROM the New.  I believe The New Testament is not only the Old Testament with all of its promises and prophecies being Revealed and fulfilled...it is a continuation of the story of GODS PEOPLE ISRAEL called by a different name Christian.

It is in so much as it's actual scripture as in the Gospels and Revelation. Much of the New Testament is Epistles or Letters by the Disciples as Pastors unto their flock, its written on a different premise, Grace over Law, so it must needs be different in how it shows mankind's relationship with God.

But that's not your point here, your point always misses the facts, it presupposes you are interpreting scriptures correctly, and in your mind you are so naturally you presuppose this, but from what I see you do not interpret the scriptures correctly. So, you may not think you disconnect the two, that is a verbal type action you do not admit, but if you do not connect the two properly, it amounts to the same thing. 

The Gospels are the Old Testament being fulfilled by Jesus, the Epistles and books by Paul, John, Peter etc. are instructions to the Church in most cases explaining why Faith is required over the Law and how the original Covenant was really THE PROMISE, not the Law. Then finally we get the book of Revelation written by God the Father, which ties the whole bible together.

19 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

What all has taken place within the 40 years (probation) of the risen Christ?  

 

God rent the temple at Jesus' death, He left them desolate at that moment. 70 AD was just the culmination of that action. God saw Israel as Dead Men's Bones as a nation because they rejected God in the flesh. However their calling is WITHOUT REPENTANCE, if you would just read Rom. 11, and accept what Paul says, you would understand this. Israel's calling of the Kingdom Age must come to pass or else God's Promise to Abraham was a lie. Jesus showed the Disciples how to pray (its really the Disciples Prayer) and he told them to pray "Thy Kingdom Come" which refers to the 1000 year reign. You guys want to insert the Church into this, its not factual, I even show you a passage that proves 100 percent that the Church will not be on this earth during the 1000 year reign but of course if you accept it as truth it defeats your argument, but Rev. 20:4 was written by God, so it is 100 percent factual. It states that ONLY those who were Killed as Martyrs during the 70th week will live and reign with Christ for 1000 years, you catch that? How do I know this? Because it SPECIFICALLY STATES that only.....ONLY those who REFUSE the Mark of the Beast live and reign with Jesus for 1000 years. That leaves off any person who did not live during the 70th week or during the Anti-Christs 3.5 year reign as the Beast, so the 1000 year reign  IS NOT for the Church, its for the Jews who are human beings, who live and rule with Jesus, the people who were Martyrs will be raised and have Glorious bodies, but that leaves out the rest of the Church who lived and died before the 70th week. And most have already died tbh, but the rest of us will be Raptured Pre Trib, and thus never face the Mark of the Beast temptation, so we will not be living on earth during Jesus' 1000 year reign. Scriptures say so, ONLY THOSE who refused the Mark of the Beast do. God does not need Billions of people with Glorious bodies to help Jesus rule, only a few 100,000 or so.

Rev. 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

 

19 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

There is no longer a NATION/LAND in the promised place

Of course there is, or else God lied, and God can not lie. Here is the gist you can not decipher prophecy very well sister. Try as you you might you are not seemingly called unto this, you have replaced Israel with the Church. That is a no no. 

19 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

There is no longer a PHYSICAL TEMPLE nor all the things that go with it

Well, there will be soon or else God lied right? By the way, its merely a replica of "The Temple in Heaven" did you know that? So you can't say its not needed or not in Gods plans.

19 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Death has been defeated

So? There is no Death in Heaven either.

19 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

The Jews become a 'by word' 

That is just you being anti Israel sister, and being confused.

19 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

The House of Israel and whomsoever would has begun to hear the good news.

Israel will repent as a Nation, the whole reason God "PROTECTS the Woman" in the Petra/Bozrah region is because God needs to make sure Israel survives the Beasts 42 month reign in order to start up the Kingdom Age. (With HUMAN Jewish Seed)

19 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

So with the Corrections taking place under the New Covenant, no longer do souls have to go to hell to pay the penalty of Sin non repented WHEN abiding in Christ. 

 

The "New Covenant" was the original promise, the Law only came 430 years later. So, in essence, its only "New" in that Israel thought the Law of Moses was the original Covenant because they were confused. People will still go to hell if they refuse to repent.

19 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

So with no Nation all those laws are non active.  Christ has become what all the laws regarding the temple and rituals and priests once were.  

The Promise was always the Covenant. 

19 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

I wish THE CHURCHES today were taught like Paul taught in his day.  From the Old writings.  What is written in the New Covenant barely touches upon any of the details of God and without that general knowledge of how God works and feels it is impossible to know when something in the New Test is truth or not.  It allows so much assumption.  

So, basically I can skip all of the middle stuff because its not something we as preachers and teachers do not understand in full but it seems the true facts escape you, what Paul was teaching is that THE PROMISE was always the Covenant, so the Old Testament was pointing towards Jesus the whole time, Israel misunderstood and overtly trusted in the Law which could only condemn them, not save them. Meanwhile you seem to think you have found some kind of magic key that shows everything has CHANGED and now Israel is no longer in the plans, NOTHING CHANGED (SMILE) and you do not seem to get that, the PROMISE was always the Covenant. Yet you think we are missing something Paul taught, no, I even see it in the Old Testament, meanwhile you see The Law, but I see THE PROMISE, that is why IMHO, it is not a New Covenant, its the Original Covenant, it was called "NEW" because from the disconnected Jews minds the LAW of Moses was the be all end all, that is why they missed Jesus. You are making the same mistake, you think the Promise is New, its not. Abraham BELIEVED God therefore it was accounted unto him for righteousness. The Promised Seed was the original covenant, not the Law of Moses, read Paul in Gal. 3, he asks why was the law added then? He tells us, because of sin.

19 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

The House of Jacob, the 12 tribes of Israel. 

Wrong, Israel were never lost. 

Everything below this point is based on your false thesis or interpretation that Israel were lost tribes sister. 

Edited August 29, 2023 by Revelation Man

[NConly]

42 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

Rev. 4:20

? help

[farouk]

5 minutes ago, NConly said:

? help

@NConly You're right; Rev. 4.20 does not exist..............

[NConly]

7 minutes ago, farouk said:

@NConly You're right; Rev. 4.20 does not exist..............

I was hoping to get the correct verse, I know Im right I looked in to different Bibles.

[Montana Marv]

4 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

You are not able to comprehend the 3 1/2 year tribulation of the saints in mark 13:9-13 that takes place before the abomination of desolation being placed in. Jerusalem in mark 13:14?

I understand.

Have you ever considered why the A/D is set up in the first place.

First 3 1/2 years of the 70th Week go pretty easy for Israel.  They bury the dead for 7 months (Ezk 39:12); they burn the weapons of war for 7 years (Ezk 39:9)

Israel has the opportunity to sacrifice and give offerings in their new Temple, per the covenant made with many (Dan 9:27)

Then things go bad for the one who made the covenant with many.  The Two Witnesses arrive before the midpoint of the 70th Week and appear in Jerusalem.

Then at the midpoint the A/C stops all sacrifice and offerings in the Temple and he sets up the A/D on a wing of the Temple; thus causing those in Judea to flee to the mountains.

Following this is when the Dragon (Satan) pursues the woman; those of Judea which fled for 3 1/2 years.

Then Armageddon occurs which may last 30 days.  Takes a while for a billion or more individuals and horses to make their way into a 180 sq mile winepress.

Then the birds of prey eat the flesh of men and horses, maybe 45 days to complete.

The Second Coming then happens.

Followed by the A/C and False Prophet being cast into the LOF and Satan being bound up for 1000 years.

Christ now rules for 1000 years.  After the 1000 years Satan is released to deceive the nations one more time.  All who follow him and attack the city are totally consumed

The GWT judgment takes place. Satan and all the fallen angels, with all the Unjust of the 2nd Resurrection are now thrown into the LOF.

The New Heavens and the New Earth form, then the New Jerusalem comes down for all the Just over the past 7000 years or so to reside in, for eternity.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Revelation Man]

1 hour ago, NConly said:

? help

Rev. 20:4..............

Rev. 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Edited August 29, 2023 by Revelation Man

[Shilohsfoal]

1 hour ago, Montana Marv said:

I understand.

Have you ever considered why the A/D is set up in the first place.

First 3 1/2 years of the 70th Week go pretty easy for Israel.  They bury the dead for 7 months (Ezk 39:12); they burn the weapons of war for 7 years (Ezk 39:9)

Israel has the opportunity to sacrifice and give offerings in their new Temple, per the covenant made with many (Dan 9:27)

Then things go bad for the one who made the covenant with many.  The Two Witnesses arrive before the midpoint of the 70th Week and appear in Jerusalem.

Then at the midpoint the A/C stops all sacrifice and offerings in the Temple and he sets up the A/D on a wing of the Temple; thus causing those in Judea to flee to the mountains.

Following this is when the Dragon (Satan) pursues the woman; those of Judea which fled for 3 1/2 years.

Then Armageddon occurs which may last 30 days.  Takes a while for a billion or more individuals and horses to make their way into a 180 sq mile winepress.

Then the birds of prey eat the flesh of men and horses, maybe 45 days to complete.

The Second Coming then happens.

Followed by the A/C and False Prophet being cast into the LOF and Satan being bound up for 1000 years.

Christ now rules for 1000 years.  After the 1000 years Satan is released to deceive the nations one more time.  All who follow him and attack the city are totally consumed

The GWT judgment takes place. Satan and all the fallen angels, with all the Unjust of the 2nd Resurrection are now thrown into the LOF.

The New Heavens and the New Earth form, then the New Jerusalem comes down for all the Just over the past 7000 years or so to reside in, for eternity.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Your first mistake is thinking Ezekiel 38 is before the resurrection of Israel in Ezekiel 37.

Jesus made it easy to understand in revelation 20  showing how those who have died for their witness of Jesus are resurected and live in peace and safety in the land of Israel for 1000 years before Gog and his merry band of nations come against the people of God at the end of the 1000 year millinium.

 

The abomination desolation which is placed in Jerusalem by the United States armed forces is set in Jerusalem to destroy everyone in Jerusalem.This takes place 1000 years before Gog invades the promised land in Ezekiel 38 and revelation 20.

The abomination of desolation was built  to destroy and innihilate many.

 

For more than six decades, the United States has emphasized the need for a nuclear force that credibly deters adversaries, assures allies and partners, achieves U.S. objectives should deterrence fail and hedges against uncertain threats.

 

https://www.defense.gov/Multimedia/Experience/Americas-Nuclear-Triad/#:~:text=For more than six decades,and hedges against uncertain threats.

 

At the time the US armed forces place the abomination of desolation in jerusalem,deterrence had failed,and the US and Israel's enemies had taken Jerusalem.

 

Edited August 29, 2023 by Shilohsfoal

[NConly]

56 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

Rev. 20:4..............

Rev. 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Thank you

[Revelation Man]

20 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Except for the FACT that ALL ISRAEL is not in the hands of ALL ISRAEL.  The JEWS from the tribe of JUDAH, those who NEVER FORGOT who they were WENT BACK.  

Wrong, God can not lie, do you get that concept sister? God stated He would bring them from all the nations where He had scattered them, after they were Dead Men's Bones. God NEVER SAW Israel as Dead Men's Bones when they were in Israel, God still had Jews living in Israel, He still had plans to bring them back in order to birth Jesus, he still dealt with the Prophets as evidenced by God revealing things unto Ezekiel and Daniel. Israel were only seen by God as Dead Men's Bones after 70 AD (really after Jesus' death) u until 1948, it is called the Diaspora. 

You not understanding that no tribes were ever lost is on you. Tribes = SEED. Pssttt, some Judeans who lived in the Northern Kingdoms were also toted off by Assyria did you know that sister? So, were the Jews lost also? It doesn't add up. How can a person not understand that all 12 tribes had men living in Judea? I think its because if you think it through and come to the conclusion which we all know is correct, that all 12 Tribes had men living in Judea, then that destroys your thesis on the Church (I guess, its Armstrong's thesis) being the other part of "Israel" the 10 lost tribes. Its just Herbert W. Armstrong the cultists made up stuff sister, he was off the Deep End tbh. 

20 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

How could those who DON'T KNOW they were of Israel go back?  

Because they DO KNOW !! They know they are Israelis, them knowing from which tribe is not even important. God did not like that Israel had divided itself so he made sure the evil Northern Kingdoms lost their "Power Base" He did not however make sure the Seed from every tribe was snuffed out, that was not his objective. God knew (He knows all of course) that men from all 12 tribes lived in Judea. Thus He also know that the two sticks or Nations would become one stick or Nation. He also know that over a 500-600 year period they would take on the name of te place they lived, Romans are from Rome, New Yorkers are from New York, where these people were born 100 years ago is not relevant unto that point. Likewise, all the Israelis who live in Judea become Jews, not Benjamites, not of Manasseh, etc. but they became Jews because they lived in Judea, what tribe they were from was not relevant unto God the Father. He knows, you and I don't, and that is OK by Him. 

You trying to say they have to know which tribe they are from in order to go back to Israel, honestly, just does not even register.

20 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

It was from the time THE TRIBE OF JUDAH was taken into captivity UNTIL the time of their punishment was fulfilled, NOT THE OTHER 13 TRIBES.  

All Tribes were living in Judea, whether you understand this or not does not change the facts sister. 

20 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

You place JACOB as being JUDAH and somehow ERASE all the other tribes like GOD, WHO CAN NOT LIE just let all of those promises be of no effect.  

God stated the WHOLE HOUSE of Israel were returned, you knowing who is who is not relevant to God's FACTOIDS.

20 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

The ENTIRE FOUNDATION OF GODS PEOPLE ISRAEL IS MISSING FROM your beliefs. 

You just do not understand how to dig out these deep truths sister, or these truths put a damper on your ideas thus you ignore them.

20 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

You don't seem to understand THE TWO STICKS are not made one UNTIL THE END.  You have them as having been made one IN 1948 BECAUSE you are not rightly dividing  WHO IS WHO.  

Wrong, the Two-sticks became one long ago. Else God could not have punished Israel as a nation. You literally just will not accept that all 12 tribes had men living in Judea when Assyria toted off the Northern Kingdoms, this astonishes me tbh. 

20 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

The two made one will be THE LAW KEEPERS and those under GRACE.  There is no one else.  

There you go trying to REPLACE Israel with the Church, you do this at every turn, this is why you can not say there were never any lost tribes, you are too invested it seems. Grace and the Promise was the Original Covenant, one day you are going to grasp that. 

20 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

19Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.


DO YOU SEE THE PROBLEM WITH MAKING THE JEWS/JUDAH,
AND the House of Israel one in the same???  

I see, YOU DON'T, God stated he would make Israel one nation and he did that long ago, before Jesus showed up. 

20 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

as for THEM ALL BEING BROUGHT together IN 1948

THAT THEORY IS MISSING A SINGLE LORD AND KING RULING OVER THEM ALL, 

God does not speak theories. Its a process, Gd brings them back as a Nation (every tribe) but with no Spirit in them. Then He breathes upon them later on (just before the DOTL as shown in Zechariah 13 and 14). Jesus only rules after the 70th week. 

20 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

20And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.

21And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:

22And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel;

Let me interpret the whole passage for you again, as I did before, you seem to have a hard time understanding how a prophesy can stretch out over 2500 years or more.

15 The word of the Lord came again unto me, saying,

16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions:(as of THAT TIME they were DIVIDED) then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim and for all the house of Israel his companions: (Notice both are called Israel)

17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand. 18 And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?

19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.

The ABOVE was the shortrange prophesy, the below is the LONG RANGE PROPHECY. 

20 And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes. 21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:

22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.

Buying into Herbert W. Armstrong is not a god thing sister. 

God Bless