So, the biggest question on the rise from abortionists.

[Tristen]

5 hours ago, kwikphilly said:

My point was completely missed and that's quite alright... 

Sorry, I was just clarifying something that seemed to confuse a few people.

 

5 hours ago, kwikphilly said:

I was wondering what God's Perspective may be- for even wasting sperm seems to be displeasing in the Eyes of God as mentioned in the Scriptures or maybe not,I don't really know

I don't think "wasting sperm" is a serious issue to God. Both sperm and eggs are wasted routinely via normal, God-designed biological processes.

The issue with Onan was that he intentionally failed his duty to his brother.

 

 

[Dennis1209]

A little off-topic, sorry. There is a ton of secular vs. theological debate in this area. Many Christians agree life begins at the very moment of conception. I would link some videos showing our modern technology recording it, but…

There is a bright flash of light in the womb at the precise moment of conception. Science is unsure what it is or what causes it; some guess it is a chemical reaction. It is the spark of life, the instant we become a living soul, but a guess.

In this modern age, designer babies and artificial wombs are a reality. I will omit how that satisfies the desires of the alternative lifestyle crowd and others. How do things like this impact morals, values, and secular law?

What laws protect the unborn and their rights? Two standards in our statutes affect the human rights of those who cannot defend themselves. It boils down to the wanted and the unwanted—a woman's right to choose to carry an appendage (fetus) or not to term.

Considering the contradiction in law and values, just looking at this from an unborn child's perspective from the outside as an advocate.

Millions of babies are legally aborted for convenience, most paid for or subsidized at taxpayer expense. An expectant mother, by intent or accident by another, kills her fetus in the womb; it then is a homicide criminal and may be prosecuted.

It is too long to document or detail, but some of the best legal minds have met to hash out near future laws and rights to what constitutes a human being and variances. Yes, you heard it right. If anyone missed the memo, our government (and the world) are biologically tinkering with DNA to manufacture super soldiers. Our American government even announced it to keep up with the Joneses.

Some food for transhumanism thought for those interested:

Inside DARPA's Attempts to Engineer a Futuristic Super-Soldier - The Atlantic

DARPA Has Genetically Engineered Super Blood to Protect Soldiers From a Major Threat (mic.com)

I think these technologies developing have the mark of the Beast and boils written all over them. Militaries always get first use of technology to weaponize it before civilian use.

 

[The_Patriot21]

On 9/23/2023 at 7:42 PM, believeinHim said:

It's not often I read common sense in to your posts, but this was pure common sense in to this post, loll, assuming no one is passed out from smoke inhalation, which is the only caveat I can think, as long as no one is passed out from smoke inhalation, that's all I can think of is what could be it the main caveat, etc. 

So, you take a post, where I actually got the scientific definition of embryo wrong, and say I made perfect sense, and then go off on smoke inhalation...which in reality has no bearing on the topic at hand, at all and makes absolutely zero sense....

In any case I'm glad you approve, but I would appreciate in the future you taking the time to read through my posts because I go to great lengths to make sure they are understandable, and for the most part, everyone understands them. Your the only one who consistently does not, which tells me that the issue with your understanding lies with you.

[The_Patriot21]

4 hours ago, believeinHim said:

I have never been one to shy away from when I don't understand something, Patriot, that's not me, either. I did read all of it. I don't understand ? You made some comment about pregnant women can indeed walk, as if they would ever say they can't ? That's how I read that, anyway.

I have never been married, and I have never been with a man, as a result of that. My mom went over the obvious with me, but I  didn't even know about my own biological clock until I did my own internet search on it.

Couple that with them being on here and reading someone actually talking about Sarai, or Sarah, or whichever way means which, as if that can actually happen in a natural way in this time, and I am really confused.

I don't know all of the correct terminology. I truly don't understand. My mom went over the obvious with me, but I have never been married, and never been with a man. It is unclear if I would even be able to carry a baby to term, given my health conditions. I have a Serious Mental Illness, and am on several medications. A pregnancy for me could result in danger to the mother, which in case, meaning me.

I have been too busy being sick, and falling in love several times, only to either not be pursued, or to be rejected. I truly do not understand.

My mom went over the obvious with me, but unless I am actually married, then I am obviously not active being that I am a Christian, and that is and has always been a requirement for me. I have not had to think about all of this stuff, I have been too busy being sick.

The smoke inhalation, was due to your kind of weird comment about how pregnant women can walk, as if you think a pregnant woman would ever say she can't ? So, I laughed, Because I am not a feminist, and I myself know first hand how annoying my own gender can be. I find stuff like that funny, sometimes. I do not believe in the progressive Christian theories that are of some who are Christians. I believe women are fully capable of being responsible for themselves, unless something is wrong, which is the case of with me. I have a Serious Illness, and Disability in my brain.

So, if the science you posted was wrong, I truly don't know where. I put a laughing reaction at the off comment about pregnant women and walking. It was kind of a backhanded comment, but it's still funny because I am a woman, and I already know about my own gender, since I am a woman. Off comment, yes, funny, yes. Truthful, yes. I already know all of this stuff.

But, as far as the embryo, or whatever, or the science being off, or whatever, I truly did not catch that, and I still haven't. 

I have been too busy being sick with an illness in my brain, and I have never been married, nor active, as a result. I am 38 1~2, and I am still waiting for my husband, IF, he is out there. Which, yes, I am attracted to a few. A select few, but a few.

But, I have never been with any of them, and too sick to know anything about the science behind all of the pregnancy stuff. A pregnancy for me, could end up in danger to the mother. Assuming there aren't anyone trying to say that a disorder in your brain, isn't physical. That it isn't a physical illness.

If we can get past people thinking that a disorder in your brain, isn't physical, and is physical, then it could result in a danger to the mother, potentially, not to mention, I am getting way too old for it, as well. Way too old for it, now, way, way, way too old for it now. Almost, to the point of becoming barren, I am almost now a barren woman, which may be a good thing for my particular case, being of all of my health issues. Not having kids, for me personally, may be a healthier this for me, personally.

I don't like it, and it makes me sad, but it may be the best thing for me. I am too busy learning the science behind my brain, and which medications to take, and being on every different combination of them, than I am about the science behind pregnancy. It might be too much for me. It could result in a danger to the mother. Potentially. Plus, women in public education aren't really taught any of this, either, I don't think, but for me, I just haven't been well enough to have to be concerned with it, for myself. 

I was home schooled, and I still have not been in a position where I have had to think about it. If that changes, Worthy will probably be the first to know, after my parents ~ family, etc, but I don't think it's going to.

I don't think anything is going to change, and I have no indication that it will anytime soon. So, no, I don't understand which part of the science was wrong, and yes, I did read all of it. I read all of your post. I still don't know which part of the science was wrong. 

Fair enough. My walking comment was basically saying if the baby is in the womb let her walk out of the fire.

I did get the scientific part wrong...a embryo is a fertilized egg, at the time I answered the question, my mind was thinking it was a unfertilized egg for some strange reason, which was incorrect.

As far as the smoke inhalation, that is again on me. It's been so long since I made that post that I forgot exactly what I said, and in the past there have been multiple occasions where I said something very clear, but contrary to what you wanted to believe and you accused me of being "unclear" and I allowed that frustration, to cloud my view of what you said.

And for that, I was in the wrong and I apologize. You were clear in this case, I was the one being confusing.

[JimmyB]

On 9/23/2023 at 1:22 PM, Dennis1209 said:

A little off-topic, sorry. There is a ton of secular vs. theological debate in this area. Many Christians agree life begins at the very moment of conception. I would link some videos showing our modern technology recording it, but…

There is a bright flash of light in the womb at the precise moment of conception. Science is unsure what it is or what causes it; some guess it is a chemical reaction. It is the spark of life, the instant we become a living soul, but a guess.

In this modern age, designer babies and artificial wombs are a reality. I will omit how that satisfies the desires of the alternative lifestyle crowd and others. How do things like this impact morals, values, and secular law?

What laws protect the unborn and their rights? Two standards in our statutes affect the human rights of those who cannot defend themselves. It boils down to the wanted and the unwanted—a woman's right to choose to carry an appendage (fetus) or not to term.

Considering the contradiction in law and values, just looking at this from an unborn child's perspective from the outside as an advocate.

Millions of babies are legally aborted for convenience, most paid for or subsidized at taxpayer expense. An expectant mother, by intent or accident by another, kills her fetus in the womb; it then is a homicide criminal and may be prosecuted.

It is too long to document or detail, but some of the best legal minds have met to hash out near future laws and rights to what constitutes a human being and variances. Yes, you heard it right. If anyone missed the memo, our government (and the world) are biologically tinkering with DNA to manufacture super soldiers. Our American government even announced it to keep up with the Joneses.

Some food for transhumanism thought for those interested:

Inside DARPA's Attempts to Engineer a Futuristic Super-Soldier - The Atlantic

DARPA Has Genetically Engineered Super Blood to Protect Soldiers From a Major Threat (mic.com)

I think these technologies developing have the mark of the Beast and boils written all over them. Militaries always get first use of technology to weaponize it before civilian use.

 

It is clear to me that you don't underst5and fertilization, pregnancy, what an embryo or a fetus is, etc.

An embryo cannot survive independently of the mother, period.  So it cannot be considered to be alive.

A fetus cannot survive independently of the mother (unless, in some cases, extraordinary measures are taken to try to insure its survival), so a fetus cannot considered to be alive.  

There are many occasions when a fetus must be aborted.  There are fetal anomalies that make survival impossible outside of the womb, for example, not having functioning lungs or having a malformed heart.  The only sensible thing to do in those cases is to abort the pregnancy!  It is nothing but propaganda, based on ignorance, to consider carrying such a fetus to term, unless you want to observe its suffering and dying an agonizing death.\

The whole debate about abortion is hyper-emotional.  Much of it is based on myths and lack of logic.  Abortion is a necessary medical procedure that should be decided upon by the woman, her physician, and her family, not by government fiat.

Why do you want to deny a woman her freedom?

[George]

Judges 13:5 King James Version (KJV) 

- Read this chapter

⁵ For, lo, thou shalt conceive, and bear a son; and no razor shall come on his head: for the child shall be a Nazarite unto God from the womb: and he shall begin to deliver Israel out of the hand of the Philistines.

Psalms 22:10 King James Version (KJV) 

- Read this chapter

¹⁰ I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly.

 

Isaiah 44:2 King James Version (KJV) 

- Read this chapter

² Thus saith the LORD that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, which will help thee; Fear not, O Jacob, my servant; and thou, Jesurun, whom I have chosen.

Isaiah 49:1 King James Version (KJV) 

- Read this chapter

¹ Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The LORD hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name.

 

Jeremiah 1:5 King James Version (KJV) 

- Read this chapter

⁵ Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

 

Earliest Church Fathers and the doctrine of the early church ...

Didache ... 

2:1 But the second commandment of the teaching is this.

2:2 Thou shalt not kill; thou shalt not commit adultery; thou shalt not corrupt youth; thou shalt not commit fornication; thou shalt not steal; thou shalt not use soothsaying; thou shalt not practise sorcery; thou shalt not kill a child by abortion, neither shalt thou slay it when born; thou shalt not covet the goods of thy neighbour;

2:3 thou shalt not commit perjury; thou shalt not bear false witness; thou shalt not speak evil; thou shalt not bear malice;

2:4 thou shalt not be double-minded or double-tongued, for to be double tongued is the snare of death.

[Dennis1209]

4 hours ago, JimmyB said:

It is clear to me that you don't underst5and fertilization, pregnancy, what an embryo or a fetus is, etc.

An embryo cannot survive independently of the mother, period.  So it cannot be considered to be alive.

A fetus cannot survive independently of the mother (unless, in some cases, extraordinary measures are taken to try to insure its survival), so a fetus cannot considered to be alive.  

There are many occasions when a fetus must be aborted.  There are fetal anomalies that make survival impossible outside of the womb, for example, not having functioning lungs or having a malformed heart.  The only sensible thing to do in those cases is to abort the pregnancy!  It is nothing but propaganda, based on ignorance, to consider carrying such a fetus to term, unless you want to observe its suffering and dying an agonizing death.\

The whole debate about abortion is hyper-emotional.  Much of it is based on myths and lack of logic.  Abortion is a necessary medical procedure that should be decided upon by the woman, her physician, and her family, not by government fiat.

Why do you want to deny a woman her freedom?

I am not going to dignify your post with a personal response. But here are a few more verses on what God says:

Proverbs 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

Job 31:15 Did not he that made me in the womb make him? and did not one fashion us in the womb?

Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

[JimmyB]

13 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

I am not going to dignify your post with a personal response. But here are a few more verses on what God says:

Proverbs 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

Job 31:15 Did not he that made me in the womb make him? and did not one fashion us in the womb?

Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

Applying Proverbs 14:12 to abortion is meaningless.

Job 31:15 is also misapplied, unless you consider that God also made fetuses that had zero chance of surviving. (In context it is referring to slaves.)

Jeremiah 1:4-5 is about the prophet being chosen before he was born...

Now the word of the Lord came to me saying,

“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
and before you were born I consecrated you;
I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”

So God had a specific purpose for Jeremiah.  So what?  What is God's purpose for forming fetuses in the womb that cannot survive independently?

Taking verse from here and there, out of context, to prove a predetermined point is meaningless.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Here are a few things God also did...

He killed all the firstborn of Egypt, humans and animals.

He allowed Herod to kill all the boys two years of age and younger.

God also said this through Jeremiah: "Thus says the Lord: A voice is heard in Ramah, lamentation and bitter weeping. Rachel is weeping for her children; she refuses to be comforted for her children, because they are no more."  Jeremiah 31:15, repeated in Matthew 2:18

And there are many instances in the Old Testament when God allows armies to slaughter men, women, and children.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

So the sovereign God allows many, many living children to be murdered on several occasions.

Therefore, your out-of-context verses prove nothing about God's attitude about performing abortions.

In reality, the US Constitution gives freedom to citizens, including the right to make medical decisions free of government interference.

 

 

[JimmyB]

"Christianity and abortion have a long and complex history. There is a general consensus that the texts of the Bible are "ambiguous" on the subject of abortion, neither containing explicit support or opposition, although there has been several passages interpreted that have been interpreted indicating both. Today, Christian denominations hold widely variant stances." From the article "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_and_abortion" in Wikipedia (worth reading)\

"Christians have so far failed to show why abortion is an affront to Christian convictions. Rather than arguing when life begins, Christians must show that Christianity as a way of life which recognizes God as Lord of life makes abortion unthinkable." From the NIH

It would be helpful for anyone interested in the subject to be informed about the discussions about Christianity and abortions.

[angels4u]

On 9/17/2023 at 5:28 PM, Mozart's Starling said:

You're in a burning building and there is a single 5 year old child vs 10 embryos. Which do you save? You can only save one or the other. Now this is not a question that implicates the embryos are meaningless even if you would choose the child. If you were to pay me 20,000 million dollars to destroy a SINGLE embryo I would not do it. If I had a pregnant woman vs a man I'd save the woman every time. I am not asking this to poke a hole or anything. Abortion is evil and this in no way justifies it. I am 100% pro life and was glad Roe V Wade was taken down. I ask it in case this question is brought up to us in real life. Any thoughts? There's also things to consider like the child has a family will feel pain. I just want a single BAM answer to this scenario to shut it down before it catches on. Best to be prepared for all tricks of Satan imo.

Who would you save?