Project 144,000

[Luther]

On 10/24/2023 at 10:41 AM, JohnD said:

In Revelation there will be 144,000 Jewish believers in Jesus who witness to (apparently Israel).

Could it be incumbent of Christians to help pave the way for these Hebrew evangelists?

The scriptures referred to in the New Testament are the Old Testament. The New Testament hadn't

even been written yet. It is sad how little most Christians know about the Old Testament and how

many prophecies there are about Jesus there. 351 about his first coming in fact.

 

Sorry, the 144,000 has nothing to do with blood lines or lineage:

Revelation 7:3 KJV

Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

Who are the " servants of our God"? 

Revelation 1:1 KJV

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Revelation 22:3-4 KJV

And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: [4] And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.

Christians serve God.

[Luther]

On 12/17/2023 at 8:37 AM, Jaydub said:

What happens to Christians grafted in, if we are grafted into Israel what tribes are we grafted into?

Christians ARE Israel.  Anyone who becomes saved is called a Christian. 

In a physical sense, Israel was scattered into the nations. They blended in with the people of those nations. After the hundreds of generations of blood mixing, it would be rather foolish to suggest that there are there are pure  "tribes" in existence today. I believe we all have a "touch of Israel in us", especially coming from Europe. 

[Luther]

On 2/22/2025 at 10:38 AM, JohnD said:

Whether Jewish or Gentile born, becoming a believer in Jesus Christ is to be a member of the Spirit house of Israel. It does not make a Gentile born believer a physical Jew but a Spirit Jew. A physical Jew is not a Spirit Jew until they believe in Jesus. They are a physical Jew and are chosen / elect as the physical heirs of Abraham through which God ushered the Word of God into the lost world in two forms (the written Word the Bible and the Living Word the Messiah Jesus).

Physical Jewish people are God's chosen of Earth. Spirit Jewish people are God's chosen of Heaven. Note the contrast between the two and what the line of demarcation is:

Galatians 4:21–31 (KJV)
21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

God is indeed no respecter of persons especially in that the offer of salvation is to everyone (1 Timothy 4:10 / 1 John 2:2) but only realized through the activation of that prepaid Grace through individual faith (John 3:16-18). So while God is no respecter persons there is a condition for salvation, eternal life, being in the family of God, a Spirit Jew of the Spirit house of Israel.

You said: "Physical Jewish people are God's chosen of Earth."

Actually that's a pretty accurate assessment. Christians are chosen to be with Christ for ever in heaven. 

[Luther]

On 2/22/2025 at 11:12 AM, JohnD said:

Setting aside the traditions of man (which infests biblical doctrine in the organized Church more than we realize), we can get to Holy Spirit interpretation and tutelage of the scriptures that will astound and amaze us. Jesus warned against the traditions of man in general (Mark 7:7 / Mark 7:13) and at times in his Earthly ministry specifically citing where the religious leaders of the Jews misled the people (which he referred to as the leaven of the Pharisees). The Sermon on the Mount is replete with his course correction from where the traditions of man had misled the people in the Law. Modern denominations are no different than the religious leaders back then, in that we are all susceptible to human reasoning interfering with God's revelation to man (the scriptures and their accurate interpretation).

This is usually where there a spitting contest is raised "you think you know it all?" or "so YOUR interpretation is the RIGHT one?"

No. This is about the absolute interpretation by the only qualified Interpreter the Holy Spirit (who wrote the scriptures through the writing prophets).

2 Peter 1:20–21 (KJV)
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

* We are to know this first (to head off at the start any false interpretations)

* No portion of scripture is of any private interpretation (the word prophecy is not restricted to predictive prophecy but applies to all professed scripture; for all scripture came in the manner described in verse 21 through the prophets)

* Specifically stated that it is NOT by the will of man (nor of our reasoning / rationale etc).

* Naming the Holy Ghost / Holy Spirit as the ONLY interpreter of God's word

Jesus not only warned about how the interpretations of man can nullify the Word of God and make even the worship of him in vain... he expressly contrasted it juxtaposed it with the will and ways of God in Matthew 16:17 and Matthew 16:23 ← in which he revealed the ultimate source of human thinking as from the devil which is why he called Peter Satan.

Jesus echoed this satanic origin of human so-called wisdom in John 8:44.

The Holy Spirit is our only source for truth and factual scriptural interpretation (John 16:13).

All scripture conflicts, denominational distinctions, and confusion comes entirely from human interference and interpreting the Word of God by any other means than the Holy Spirit who wrote the Bible. And it stands to reason that if we want to know the meaning God intended, we would let God tell his own story.

Man is gullible. We cannot truly even tell right from wrong, nor even if we are getting the actual interpretation from the actual Holy Spirit. The scriptures say the devil feigns to be an angel of light. So how can we be certain?

Test the Spirits to be certain they are from God (1 John 4:1 echoing 1 Thessalonians 5:21).

How do we do this?

By the scriptures themselves (Acts 17:11 / 2 Timothy 3:16-17).

Then we are privy to the full meaning of scripture (Proverbs 25:2, Deuteronomy 29:29) and learn the manner in which God reveals truth in scripture (Isaiah 28:9-13).

Then there is only one camp of interpretation one belief system one Body focused on the one God and his one truth. And no longer the attributed beliefs to "the Baptists believe this" and "the Pentecostals believe that" or the Presbyterians believe the other..."

In John 17 (the true Lord's prayer) Jesus prayed several times that we in the Body of believers be one as the Father and he are one. Wow... wow.  Look around... are we one?

One might argue we are one in the centrality of our faith in Jesus... but I remind us all:

Mark 7:7 (KJV)
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Matthew 7:21–23 (KJV)
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Scary! They say the greatest sins are committed closest to the altar... that would have to be the deception of a would-be believer whose faith in nullified by the deceptions of man wrapped in tradition and doctrine.

Not pointing the finger at anyone here. Just trying to point out; that of all the things in life we must be absolutely certain of, believing in the genuine Jesus must be above all and that no one of us should risk this in any way but must self check / perspective check / double triple / quadruple check our own faith by the Holy Spirit who guides us to all truth.

You said: "This is usually where there a spitting contest is raised "you think you know it all?" or "so YOUR interpretation is the RIGHT one?"

Yes, of course. 

Just kidding....to a point. 

1 Corinthians 3:10-13 KJV

According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

[11] For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

[12] Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

[13] Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

All true believers have the blessing of the mind of Christ. Nevertheless our understanding is in relationship to what the Holy Spirit will reveal at His time. 

 

[other one]

3 hours ago, Luther said:

Revelation 7:3 KJV

Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

Who are the " servants of our God"? 

 Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.

⁵ From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed,

from the tribe of Reuben 12,000,

from the tribe of Gad 12,000,

⁶ from the tribe of Asher 12,000,

from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000,

from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000,

⁷ from the tribe of Simeon 12,000,

from the tribe of Levi 12,000,

from the tribe of Issachar 12,000,

⁸ from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000,

from the tribe of Joseph 12,000,

from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.

[1to3]

 A genome is the complete genetic information of a living organism and the gene carrier
This means that those individuals whose 144,000 genes are intact will be sealed with the name of the
Lamb and His Father. They were the ones who won the victory over the beast.
Below is a brilliant deduction from Hugo Talks. If there are 72,000 genes in one helix, then the double helix (72,000 from the mother and 72,000 from the father) is 72 x 2 = 144,000. The triple helix is 144,000 + 72,000 = 216,000 genes. Revelation 13:16-18 mentions the number of a man. If you multiply this number (600x60x6), guess what number you get? Triple helix is touted as a new virus-crippling technology because they claim to be able to program DNA, cure disease, and change human behaviour.

The apostle John wrote: “I heard the number of those who were sealed: one hundred and forty-four thousand” (Revelation 7:4). In the Bible, the phrase "those who were sealed" refers to a specific group of people; they were chosen to rule with Christ from heaven over a paradise earth (2 Corinthians 1:21, 22; Revelation 5:9, 10; 20:6). Their number - 144,000 - should be taken literally for several reasons. One of these can be found in the immediate context of Revelation 7:4.
Immediately after receiving information about the 144,000, the apostle John saw another group. He described it as "a great multitude that no man could number, out of every nation and tribe and people and tongue." This “great crowd” includes people who will survive the coming “great tribulation,” when this present wicked world will be destroyed.—Revelation 7:9, 14.

72,000 nucleotides X 2 = 144,000 + 72,000 = 600 x 60 x 6 = 216,000

A genome is the complete genetic information of a living organism and the gene carrier

This means that those individuals whose 144,000 genes are intact will be sealed with the name of the Lamb and His Father. They were the ones who won the victory over the beast.

Below is a brilliant deduction from Hugo Talks. If there are 72,000 genes in one helix, then the double helix (72,000 from the mother and 72,000 from the father) is 72 x 2 = 144,000. The triple helix is 144,000 + 72,000 = 216,000 genes. Revelation 13:16-18 mentions the number of a man. If you multiply this number (600x60x6), guess what number you get? Triple helix is touted as a new virus-crippling technology because they claim to be able to program DNA, cure disease, and change human behaviour.

The apostle John wrote: “I heard the number of those who were sealed: one hundred and forty-four thousand” (Revelation 7:4). In the Bible, the phrase "those who were sealed" refers to a specific group of people; they were chosen to rule with Christ from heaven over a paradise earth (2 Corinthians 1:21, 22; Revelation 5:9, 10; 20:6). Their number - 144,000 - should be taken literally for several reasons. One of these can be found in the immediate context of Revelation 7:4.
Immediately after receiving information about the 144,000, the apostle John saw another group. He described it as "a great multitude that no man could number, out of every nation and tribe and people and tongue." This “great crowd” includes people who will survive the coming “great tribulation,” when this present wicked world will be destroyed.—Revelation 7:9, 14.

72,000 nucleotides X 2 = 144,000 + 72,000 = 600 x 60 x 6 = 216,000

[Locust]

how are u's coming up wih these numbers? 72,000 nucleotides X 2 = 144,000 + 72,000 = 600 x 60 x 6 = 216,000

''The human genome contains 3.1 billion nucleotide pairs in a haploid set. These are divided into 24 straight molecules, 50,000,000 shorter nucleotides, and 260,000,000 longer long nucleotides. Each is contained in a different chromosome. Thus most cells have 6.2 billion basic pairs.''

[1to3]

Even Finding 12,000 individuals with distinct DNA profiles for each of 12 different nations, then have all of them virgins at more or less the same time, is a daunting task, to put it mildly. 

But with God All things are possible.

One thing appears very clear, that from those 12 nations, what God is looking for is: untainted  DNA

[angels4u]

I believe the 144.000  are living now and God will use them to preach the gospel during the Tribulation after the church is gone ,there will also be the 2 witnesses ,there will be a big revival and many people will find Jesus during those terrible 7 years but might be killed for their testimony..

Better turn to the Lord before those days arrive...

[Anne2]

On 2/20/2025 at 5:56 AM, kwikphilly said:

Hi Brother- what brought you back to this Topic,I'm just curious?

I'm not really sure why people get confused by " grafted in" perhaps it'd be easier if they just focused on being God's Family,His Children

I'm Italian from a long line of Italians- I was born from this family( blood line)- if my parents adopted a child then he/she would take our family name,he wouldn't be physically Italian but he'd have every legal right,birth rite and inheritance as I because he is part of our family..... isn't that a decent analogy?He is just as much a child of my parents as I am,he belongs

 

My thoughts on the matter

We also have a scriptural analogy. For a pattern, Shadow, example...

Priesthood and firstborn. .Both to the Church. The Apostolic Church

Heb 12:23  To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

Levites taken instead of all the firstborn

1Pe 2:9  But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Nu 3:12  And I, behold, I have taken the Levites from among the children of Israel instead of all the firstborn that openeth the matrix among the children of Israel: therefore the Levites shall be mine;

Nu 3:40  And the LORD said unto Moses, Number all the firstborn of the males of the children of Israel from a month old and upward, and take the number of their names.
Nu 3:41  And thou shalt take the Levites for me (I am the LORD) instead of all the firstborn among the children of Israel; and the cattle of the Levites instead of all the firstlings among the cattle of the children of Israel.

Levites redeemed the firstborn...
Nu 3:45  Take the Levites instead of all the firstborn among the children of Israel, and the cattle of the Levites instead of their cattle; and the Levites shall be mine: I am the LORD.
Nu 3:46  And for those that are to be redeemed of the two hundred and threescore and thirteen of the firstborn of the children of Israel, which are more than the Levites;
Nu 3:50  Of the firstborn of the children of Israel took he the money; a thousand three hundred and threescore and five shekels, after the shekel of the sanctuary:
Nu 8:16  For they are wholly given unto me from among the children of Israel; instead of such as open every womb, even instead of the firstborn of all the children of Israel, have I taken them unto me.
Nu 8:17  For all the firstborn of the children of Israel are mine, both man and beast: on the day that I smote every firstborn in the land of Egypt I sanctified them for myself.
Nu 8:18  And I have taken the Levites for all the firstborn of the children of Israel.
Nu 18:15  Every thing that openeth the matrix in all flesh, which they bring unto the LORD, whether it be of men or beasts, shall be thine: nevertheless the firstborn of man shalt thou surely redeem, and the firstling of unclean beasts shalt thou redeem.

The apostolic Church, a priesthood is what I believe we see in revelation. The firstborn were numbered, and a Levite taken instead. 

The entire tribe of Levi was not counted among the Children of Israel, had no portion or inheritance with Israel. What we see in revelation is not Israel after the flesh, since Levi is counted among them. It is The apostolic church as priests, Church of the firstborn taken for the twelve tribes, including Levi.....