Eating Unclean Food Is an Abomination to the Lord!

[AdHoc]

5 hours ago, NConly said:

Many see things differently as in Rom 14: 15

15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died. I am not putting down your view.

My view is very long and I will shorten it as best I can.

I appreciate that you know what you wanted to say with all those scriptures. But you have not built a counter argument for what I wrote. Maybe just start with one point you disagree with and show me where I misunderstood. The trouble with quoting scripture only is that it seems like you are pitting scripture against scripture. That just discredits the Bible. But I will comment on Romans 14:15 above.

The Church at Rome was not started by Paul. The gospel went ahead of him and so the Church at Rome had no formal teaching. The ex-Jewish believers still clung to the Law. The Law requires that Jews have no relations with the Gentiles. So the Church at Rome was divided into multiple camps. This destroyed the unity that our Lord prayed for in John 17. So Paul, when he heard this wrote and said that both parties were to not destroy the unity because of what they ate.

Now, this is not easy for a Jew who has a 1,500 year heritage of Law. So Paul appeals to the strong in faith to adapt to the weaker, like in 1st Corinthians  over eating food dedicated to idols. Conversely, the Jew who is a new convert, must allow for the fact that the Roman has a long history of eating what they want. The Jewish convert should not destroy the unity because he has a pork sandwich. He uses the comparison of of a meal overturning fellowship with another, who Christ died for. He says in effect; don't make the Messiah's death equal to the plate of shrimps.

[TrueFollowerOfChrist]

44 minutes ago, Bro.Tan said:

In Leviticus, 23^rd Chapter the sabbath day and the High Holy Days which begin I believe on the new moon. Are the feast of the Lord's. These days are to be observe in their season. In Colossians 2:16-17, "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days. Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. These feast days are the plans of God, they represent the future, with example from the past. All Holy Days are not to eat or drink, such as the atonement, but still to be observe. So this is actually what a person would say to someone who do not keep these feast day of the Lord, if they were judging them on those High and Holy Sabbath days, they were keeping. They would quoted Colossians 2: 16-17. So if you keep the first day of the week, Sunday, then it makes no sense to use this verse. You cannot worship other days that’s not written in the Bible to do, and then use the Bible to justify it. So if you keep another day thats not written in the Bible, then you are doing something on your own, thus it would really be contradictorily. 

In Romans 14, it gives us permission to choose which holidays we wish to celebrate. It says some people pick certain days to esteem and others esteem all days. Then Paul says let each person be convinced in his own mind. This is not a command but permission for people to celebrate whatever holidays they choose. Why do you think it's wrong to celebrate a holiday that's not in the Bible? Is there a passage that forbids it? You're right that I don't celebrate the Old testament holidays. Those were for the Jewish people, and I see no command in the New testament for gentile Christians to celebrate those holidays. You can't use Old testament scripture to enforce law now. If we were meant to celebrate the holidays that God created for the Jews, the apostles definitely would have made mentions of it. But they don't, because gentiles are not required to celebrate Jewish holidays.

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

48 minutes ago, Bro.Tan said:

Thank you for seeing the point in Acts 10 Ch. Concerning Romans 10:4, I would ask you, what law is Christ the end of? Keep in mind, God had Peter to clearly warn us about some of Paul’s writing.  (2Peter:3:15-16) (v.15) And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; (v.16) As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Now let us take heed to this warning, we can’t ignore all the bible and just concentrate on a hand full of verses out of the writings of Paul. Because some of Paul’s writing is hard to be understood. 

 

Bro Tan, wouldn't what Paul had written concerning the longsuffering of the Lord be what Peter is speaking of concerning the same?

For instance

Peter on longsuffering

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Paul on his longsuffering

Romans 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

As Peter refers to Paul on that account

2Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

Paul on that account

Romans 9:22-23 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath  fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Peter on account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation even as Paul has written on

2 Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Both speak in accord between them of the longsuffering of the Lord, but I don't see where meats play into the longsuffering part as far as the same.

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

1 hour ago, Bro.Tan said:

That's right, we love God for his righteousness and his mercy endure forever, etc. But we fear God when we are disobedient, etc. Jesus says in  Luke 12:5 (KJV)

But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

 

Its to get their priorities straight, do not fear men but God, for example Peter before the circumcision, as the fear of man bringeth a snare Prov 29:25

Luke.12
[4] And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.
[5] But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.
[6] Are not five sparrows sold for two farthings, and not one of them is forgotten before God?
[7] But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows.
Don't fear man of the earth but God
[11] And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say:
[12] For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.

 

 

 

[tim_from_pa]

On 11/13/2023 at 8:35 PM, Anne2 said:

Hi Tim.

Not for me anyway. The promises made to Abraham are law. 

This will not pass from the law till it be fulfilled.

Mt 8:11  And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

 

When we read Genesis we are reading Law21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
22  For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
 

I'm not under the Law, but under grace.  The issue about being "under the Law" in the Bible is one trying to earn righteousness by the Law.  If they messed up, sure there was sacrifices they offered for forgiveness.  This of course was temporary (as the blood of bulls and goats do not remove sin and make one righteous) but a foreshadowing of Him who was to come.  The thing is that forgiveness, even by God does not change one's nature, but are still of the nature of Adam.  So one can be forgiven a thousand times over and still be lost. One needs the righteousness of Jesus Christ (he took our sin in exchange for a new nature becoming righteous as He is). That did not happen before Jesus Christ.  Now, as for the other promises, such as birthright, land promises, an eternal Kingdom, etc, that has to do with the working of God's Kingdom then and to come. What most people see as the "old" and "new" covenants are those covenants that have to do with sin and eventually salvation, as a Kingdom must have order and be established. One has to be a proper member of that Kingdom.  As for my eating habits, it's not to establish righteousness on my own merits.  But with faith does come works.  Whose works?? is the issue.

[PATrobas]

5 minutes ago, tim_from_pa said:

I'm not under the Law, but under grace.  The issue about being "under the Law" in the Bible is one trying to earn righteousness by the Law.  If they messed up, sure there was sacrifices they offered for forgiveness.  This of course was temporary (as the blood of bulls and goats do not remove sin and make one righteous) but a foreshadowing of Him who was to come.  The thing is that forgiveness, even by God does not change one's nature, but are still of the nature of Adam.  So one can be forgiven a thousand times over and still be lost. One needs the righteousness of Jesus Christ (he took our sin in exchange for a new nature becoming righteous as He is). That did not happen before Jesus Christ.  Now, as for the other promises, such as birthright, land promises, an eternal Kingdom, etc, that has to do with the working of God's Kingdom then and to come. What most people see as the "old" and "new" covenants are those covenants that have to do with sin and eventually salvation, as a Kingdom must have order and be established. One has to be a proper member of that Kingdom.  As for my eating habits, it's not to establish righteousness on my own merits.  But with faith does come works.  Whose works?? is the issue.

Php 2:13  For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

[JohnD]

2 hours ago, Slibhin said:

 

The only place I could find swans listed as forbidden is in the King James bible, a notoriously inaccurate translation.

 

Since you just had to take a pot shot at the KJV, I must ask why you ignore the Chabad Tanakh scriptures I quote (which is a notoriously inacurate way for you to interpret Tanakh)?!

Yirimyahu 31:

30Behold, days are coming, says the Lord, and I will form a covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, a new covenant.		להִנֵּ֛ה יָמִ֥ים בָּאִ֖ים נְאֻם־יְהֹוָ֑ה וְכָֽרַתִּ֗י אֶת־בֵּ֧ית יִשְׂרָאֵ֛ל וְאֶת־בֵּ֥ית יְהוּדָ֖ה בְּרִ֥ית חֲדָשָֽׁה:
31Not like the covenant that I formed with their forefathers on the day I took them by the hand to take them out of the land of Egypt, that they broke My covenant, although I was a lord over them, says the Lord.		לאלֹ֣א כַבְּרִ֗ית אֲשֶׁ֚ר כָּרַ֙תִּי֙ אֶת־אֲבוֹתָ֔ם בְּיוֹם֙ הֶֽחֱזִיקִ֣י בְיָדָ֔ם לְהֽוֹצִיאָ֖ם מֵאֶ֖רֶץ מִצְרָ֑יִם אֲשֶׁר־הֵ֜מָּה הֵפֵ֣רוּ אֶת־בְּרִיתִ֗י וְאָֽנֹכִ֛י בָּעַ֥לְתִּי בָ֖ם נְאֻם־יְהֹוָֽה:
32For this is the covenant that I will form with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will place My law in their midst and I will inscribe it upon their hearts, and I will be their God and they shall be My people.		לבכִּ֣י זֹ֣את הַבְּרִ֡ית אֲשֶׁ֣ר אֶכְרֹת֩ אֶת־בֵּ֨ית יִשְׂרָאֵ֜ל אַֽחֲרֵ֨י הַיָּמִ֚ים הָהֵם֙ נְאֻם־יְהֹוָ֔ה נָתַ֚תִּי אֶת־תּֽוֹרָתִי֙ בְּקִרְבָּ֔ם וְעַל־לִבָּ֖ם אֶכְתֳּבֶ֑נָּה וְהָיִ֚יתִי לָהֶם֙ לֵֽאלֹהִ֔ים וְהֵ֖מָּה יִֽהְיוּ־לִ֥י לְעָֽם:
33And no longer shall one teach his neighbor or [shall] one [teach] his brother, saying, "Know the Lord," for they shall all know Me from their smallest to their greatest, says the Lord, for I will forgive their iniquity and their sin I will no longer remember.		לגוְלֹ֧א יְלַמְּד֣וּ ע֗וֹד אִ֣ישׁ אֶת־רֵעֵ֜הוּ וְאִ֚ישׁ אֶת־אָחִיו֙ לֵאמֹ֔ר דְּע֖וּ אֶת־יְהֹוָ֑ה כִּֽי־כוּלָּם֩ יֵֽדְע֨וּ אוֹתִ֜י לְמִקְּטַנָּ֚ם וְעַד־גְּדוֹלָם֙ נְאֻם־יְהֹוָ֔ה כִּ֚י אֶסְלַח֙ לַֽעֲו‍ֹנָ֔ם וּלְחַטָּאתָ֖ם לֹ֥א אֶזְכָּר־עֽוֹד:

Yeshayahu 52:

13Behold My servant shall prosper; he shall be exalted and lifted up, and he shall be very high.		יגהִנֵּ֥ה יַשְׂכִּ֖יל עַבְדִּ֑י יָר֧וּם וְנִשָּׂ֛א וְגָבַ֖הּ מְאֹֽד:
14As many wondered about you, "How marred his appearance is from that of a man, and his features from that of people!"		ידכַּֽאֲשֶׁ֨ר שָֽׁמְמ֚וּ עָלֶ֙יךָ֙ רַבִּ֔ים כֵּן־מִשְׁחַ֥ת מֵאִ֖ישׁ מַרְאֵ֑הוּ וְתֹֽאֲר֖וֹ מִבְּנֵ֥י אָדָֽם:
15So shall he cast down many nations; kings shall shut their mouths because of him, for, what had not been told them they saw, and [at] what they had not heard they gazed.		טוכֵּ֚ן יַזֶּה֙ גּוֹיִ֣ם רַבִּ֔ים עָלָ֛יו יִקְפְּצ֥וּ מְלָכִ֖ים פִּיהֶ֑ם כִּ֠י אֲשֶׁ֨ר לֹֽא־סֻפַּ֚ר לָהֶם֙ רָא֔וּ וַֽאֲשֶׁ֥ר לֹֽא־שָֽׁמְע֖וּ הִתְבּוֹנָֽנוּ:

Yeshayahu 53:

1Who would have believed our report, and to whom was the arm of the Lord revealed?		אמִ֥י הֶֽאֱמִ֖ין לִשְׁמֻֽעָתֵ֑נוּ וּזְר֥וֹעַ יְהֹוָ֖ה עַל־מִ֥י נִגְלָֽתָה:
2And he came up like a sapling before it, and like a root from dry ground, he had neither form nor comeliness; and we saw him that he had no appearance. Now shall we desire him?		בוַיַּ֨עַל כַּיּוֹנֵ֜ק לְפָנָ֗יו וְכַשֹּׁ֙רֶשׁ֙ מֵאֶ֣רֶץ צִיָּ֔ה לֹא־תֹ֥אַר ל֖וֹ וְלֹ֣א הָדָ֑ר וְנִרְאֵ֥הוּ וְלֹֽא־מַרְאֶ֖ה וְנֶֽחְמְדֵֽהוּ:
3Despised and rejected by men, a man of pains and accustomed to illness, and as one who hides his face from us, despised and we held him of no account.		גנִבְזֶה֙ וַֽחֲדַ֣ל אִישִׁ֔ים אִ֥ישׁ מַכְאֹב֖וֹת וִיד֣וּעַ חֹ֑לִי וּכְמַסְתֵּ֚ר פָּנִים֙ מִמֶּ֔נּוּ נִבְזֶ֖ה וְלֹ֥א חֲשַׁבְנֻֽהוּ:
4Indeed, he bore our illnesses, and our pains-he carried them, yet we accounted him as plagued, smitten by God and oppressed.		דאָכֵ֚ן חֳלָיֵ֙נוּ֙ ה֣וּא נָשָׂ֔א וּמַכְאֹבֵ֖ינוּ סְבָלָ֑ם וַֽאֲנַ֣חְנוּ חֲשַׁבְנֻ֔הוּ נָג֛וּעַ מֻכֵּ֥ה אֱלֹהִ֖ים וּמְעֻנֶּֽה:
5But he was pained because of our transgressions, crushed because of our iniquities; the chastisement of our welfare was upon him, and with his wound we were healed.		הוְהוּא֙ מְחֹלָ֣ל מִפְּשָׁעֵ֔נוּ מְדֻכָּ֖א מֵֽעֲוֹֽנוֹתֵ֑ינוּ מוּסַ֚ר שְׁלוֹמֵ֙נוּ֙ עָלָ֔יו וּבַֽחֲבֻֽרָת֖וֹ נִרְפָּא־לָֽנוּ:
6We all went astray like sheep, we have turned, each one on his way, and the Lord accepted his prayers for the iniquity of all of us.		וכֻּלָּ֙נוּ֙ כַּצֹּ֣אן תָּעִ֔ינוּ אִ֥ישׁ לְדַרְכּ֖וֹ פָּנִ֑ינוּ וַֽיהֹוָה֙ הִפְגִּ֣יעַ בּ֔וֹ אֵ֖ת עֲו‍ֹ֥ן כֻּלָּֽנוּ:
7He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he would not open his mouth; like a lamb to the slaughter he would be brought, and like a ewe that is mute before her shearers, and he would not open his mouth.		זנִגַּ֨שׂ וְה֣וּא נַֽעֲנֶה֘ וְלֹ֣א יִפְתַּח־פִּיו֒ כַּשֶּׂה֙ לַטֶּ֣בַח יוּבָ֔ל וּכְרָחֵ֕ל לִפְנֵ֥י גֹֽזְזֶ֖יהָ נֶֽאֱלָ֑מָה וְלֹ֥א יִפְתַּ֖ח פִּֽיו:
8From imprisonment and from judgment he is taken, and his generation who shall tell? For he was cut off from the land of the living; because of the transgression of my people, a plague befell them.		חמֵעֹ֚צֶר וּמִמִּשְׁפָּט֙ לֻקָּ֔ח וְאֶת־דּוֹר֖וֹ מִ֣י יְשׂוֹחֵ֑חַ כִּ֚י נִגְזַר֙ מֵאֶ֣רֶץ חַיִּ֔ים מִפֶּ֥שַׁע עַמִּ֖י נֶ֥גַע לָֽמוֹ:
9And he gave his grave to the wicked, and to the wealthy with his kinds of death, because he committed no violence, and there was no deceit in his mouth.		טוַיִּתֵּ֚ן אֶת־רְשָׁעִים֙ קִבְר֔וֹ וְאֶת־עָשִׁ֖יר בְּמֹתָ֑יו עַל לֹֽא־חָמָ֣ס עָשָׂ֔ה וְלֹ֥א מִרְמָ֖ה בְּפִֽיו:
10And the Lord wished to crush him, He made him ill; if his soul makes itself restitution, he shall see children, he shall prolong his days, and God's purpose shall prosper in his hand.		יוַֽיהֹוָ֞ה חָפֵ֚ץ דַּכְּאוֹ֙ הֶֽחֱלִ֔י אִם־תָּשִׂ֚ים אָשָׁם֙ נַפְשׁ֔וֹ יִרְאֶ֥ה זֶ֖רַע יַֽאֲרִ֣יךְ יָמִ֑ים וְחֵ֥פֶץ יְהֹוָ֖ה בְּיָד֥וֹ יִצְלָֽח:
11From the toil of his soul he would see, he would be satisfied; with his knowledge My servant would vindicate the just for many, and their iniquities he would bear.		יאמֵֽעֲמַ֚ל נַפְשׁוֹ֙ יִרְאֶ֣ה יִשְׂבָּ֔ע בְּדַעְתּ֗וֹ יַצְדִּ֥יק צַדִּ֛יק עַבְדִּ֖י לָֽרַבִּ֑ים וַֽעֲו‍ֹנֹתָ֖ם ה֥וּא יִסְבֹּֽל:
12Therefore, I will allot him a portion in public, and with the strong he shall share plunder, because he poured out his soul to death, and with transgressors he was counted; and he bore the sin of many, and interceded for the transgressors.		יבלָכֵ֞ן אֲחַלֶּק־ל֣וֹ בָֽרַבִּ֗ים וְאֶת־עֲצוּמִים֘ יְחַלֵּ֣ק שָׁלָל֒ תַּ֗חַת אֲשֶׁ֨ר הֶֽעֱרָ֚ה לַמָּ֙וֶת֙ נַפְשׁ֔וֹ וְאֶת־פֹּֽשְׁעִ֖ים נִמְנָ֑ה וְהוּא֙ חֵֽטְא־רַבִּ֣ים נָשָׂ֔א וְלַפֹּֽשְׁעִ֖ים יַפְגִּֽיעַ:

Devarim 18:

15A prophet from among you, from your brothers, like me, the Lord, your God will set up for you; you shall hearken to him.		טונָבִ֨יא מִקִּרְבְּךָ֤ מֵֽאַחֶ֨יךָ֙ כָּמֹ֔נִי יָקִ֥ים לְךָ֖ יְהֹוָ֣ה אֱלֹהֶ֑יךָ אֵלָ֖יו תִּשְׁמָעֽוּן:
16According to all that you asked of the Lord, your God, in Horeb, on the day of the assembly, saying, "Let me not continue to hear the voice of the Lord, my God, and let me no longer see this great fire, so that I will not die."		טזכְּכֹ֨ל אֲשֶׁר־שָׁאַ֜לְתָּ מֵעִ֨ם יְהֹוָ֤ה אֱלֹהֶ֨יךָ֙ בְּחֹרֵ֔ב בְּי֥וֹם הַקָּהָ֖ל לֵאמֹ֑ר לֹ֣א אֹסֵ֗ף לִשְׁמֹ֨עַ֙ אֶת־קוֹל֙ יְהֹוָ֣ה אֱלֹהָ֔י וְאֶת־הָאֵ֨שׁ הַגְּדֹלָ֥ה הַזֹּ֛את לֹֽא־אֶרְאֶ֥ה ע֖וֹד וְלֹ֥א אָמֽוּת:
17And the Lord said to me, "They have done well in what they have spoken.		יזוַיֹּ֥אמֶר יְהֹוָ֖ה אֵלָ֑י הֵיטִ֖יבוּ אֲשֶׁ֥ר דִּבֵּֽרוּ:
18I will set up a prophet for them from among their brothers like you, and I will put My words into his mouth, and he will speak to them all that I command him.		יחנָבִ֨יא אָקִ֥ים לָהֶ֛ם מִקֶּ֥רֶב אֲחֵיהֶ֖ם כָּמ֑וֹךָ וְנָֽתַתִּ֤י דְבָרַי֙ בְּפִ֔יו וְדִבֶּ֣ר אֲלֵיהֶ֔ם אֵ֖ת כָּל־אֲשֶׁ֥ר אֲצַוֶּֽנּוּ:
19And it will be, that whoever does not hearken to My words that he speaks in My name, I will exact [it] of him.		יטוְהָיָ֗ה הָאִישׁ֙ אֲשֶׁ֤ר לֹֽא־יִשְׁמַע֙ אֶל־דְּבָרַ֔י אֲשֶׁ֥ר יְדַבֵּ֖ר בִּשְׁמִ֑י אָֽנֹכִ֖י אֶדְר֥שׁ מֵֽעִמּֽוֹ:

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

6 hours ago, Bro.Tan said:

That's true, I also know that the Commandments consist of the ten and the Sabbath day is not mention either, but we know all the prophets, apostles and even Jesus kept the Sabbath day. 

Let’s take a look and see what Jesus did when he came in the flesh, And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about. And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all. And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. (Luke 4:14-16) 

Jesus made it clear that the seventh day was made for mankind. (Mark 2:27-28) (v.27) And he said unto them, The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath: Do we understand that, the Sabbath was made for us, not us for the Sabbath. (v.28) Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath. The Son of man (Jesus) is the Lord God of the seventh day Sabbath (Saturday).

But of course many people rather attend a day that's not in the Bible at all (Sunday) and also toss the dietary law with it.  

 

 

Sorry Bro Tan I missed this post I only saw your last one, this one got by me.

I wasn't the one who left the sabbath out of the "WHICH"? ( of the commandments part) when it come to the question about eternal life, Jesus did.

And Jesus was also accused by those who observe the sabbaths of breaking the sabbath at every turn, and it was Jesus who said in Mat 12:5 have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?

And I would think they would have observe the custom of the sabbath since Moses was said to be read in every city there. Jesus said, Moses wrote of him also,  but they were not even hearing Moses (who Jesus said was their accuser) who they trusted (and condemned Jesus Christ) in the fulfilment of their own scriptures.

It shows that both Stephen and Paul were falsely accused of speaking against the Jews customs and Moses also to the Jews and Paul in many more places then Stephen.

Moses, not Jesus Christ was preached in the synagogues every sabbath 

Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

And Jesus said,

John 5:45-47 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. For had ye
believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

The Jews are also shown accusing Jesus of not keeping the Sabbath and doing what is unlawful in it (Mat 12:2, 12:5, Mark 2:24,Mark 2:27, Luke 2:6, Luke 13:14-16, Luke 14:5, John 5:10, John 5:10, John 9:16, and he was eventually falsely accused "to death" for it Acts 13:27

And He accused them of not keeping the law also

John 7:19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me? 

And yes Paul preached Christ in the synagogues, here's what I have, even right after he was converted, it says,

Acts 9:20 And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.

And Acts records his visits to various synagogues where they gathered to hear Moses preached

Acts 13:14 But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down.

Since there was often an opening given to those that sat to speak,  that was an opportunity to share Jesus Christ in a large gathering

Acts 13:15 And after the reading of the law and the prophets the rulers of the synagogue sent unto them, saying, Ye men and brethren, if ye have any word of exhortation for the people, say on.

Which opportunity Paul took

Acts 13:16 Then Paul stood up, and beckoning with his hand said, Men of Israel, and ye that fear God, give audience.

Acts 13:17 For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets  which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.

Paul preached Christ to them, and how they condemned their Messiah and they were to preach to Jew first, the Gentiles after (which would hear)

Acts 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them 

The next sabbath

Acts 13:43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.

Acts 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

Which is part of the provoking them 

Acts 13:45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.

And then he says here

Acts 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

But here he is again, and used three sabbath days to reason with them here

Acts 17:1 Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews: And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures, Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.

As was typical, some of them believed, and consorted with Paul and Silas But the Jews which believed not, moved with envy, took unto them certain lewd fellows of the baser sort, and gathered a company, and set all the city on an uproar, and assaulted the house of Jason, and sought to bring them out to the people. Acts 17:4-5

This was the life of a Jew who believed in Jesus Christ in the realm of the synagogue of the Jews (so much for a day of  rest)

Acts 17:10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into  the synagogue of the Jews.

Acts 17:11 -13  These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. But when the Jews of Thessalonica had knowledge that the word of God was preached of Paul at Berea, they came thither also, and stirred up the people.

Again, the life of a Jew who believes in Jesus Christ in  the synagogue of the Jews. (no real day of rest)

Acts 17:14 And then immediately the brethren sent away Paul to go as it were to the sea: but Silas and Timotheus abode there still.

He preached where he could find a place to preach and did so daily also

Acts 17:17 Therefore disputed he in the synagogue with the Jews, and with the devout persons, and in the market daily with them that met with him.

Acts 18:1 After these things Paul departed from Athens, and came to Corinth;...  And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks....Paul was pressed in the spirit, and testified to the Jews that Jesus was Christ.

And when they opposed themselves, and blasphemed, he shook his raiment, and said unto them, Your blood be upon your own heads; I am clean: from henceforth I will go unto the Gentiles.

Again, the life of the Jew who believes in Jesus Christ in the synagogue of the Jews. (no real day of rest there)

And so from henceforth Paul says, I will go unto the Gentiles.

And then here Paul says 

Col 2:16-17 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
 

And then we have the typical forum back and forth's, on meats, and days, even sabbaths (and what that means as we know or understand them) as we know it, but I think it would help to look at the ordinances at little closer, that could help, to define those more perfectly, although I could be deluded in thinking that, it probably couldn't hurt. Have you looked at those, or attempted this at all? Because those are referred to.

Anyway, I know my posts are too long, I will work on reducing the size, I start off smaller and then just keep adding in.

 

 

 

Edited November 16, 2023 by AFlameOfFire
typo

[kwikphilly]

5 hours ago, AFlameOfFire said:

Sorry Bro Tan I missed this post I only saw your last one, this one got by me.

I wasn't the one who left the sabbath out of the "WHICH"? ( of the commandments part) when it come to the question about eternal life, Jesus did.

And Jesus was also accused by those who observe the sabbaths of breaking the sabbath at every turn, and it was Jesus who said in Mat 12:5 have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?

And I would think they would have observe the custom of the sabbath since Moses was said to be read in every city there. Jesus said, Moses wrote of him also,  but they were not even hearing Moses (who Jesus said was their accuser) who they trusted (and condemned Jesus Christ) in the fulfilment of their own scriptures.

It shows that both Stephen and Paul were falsely accused of speaking against the Jews customs and Moses also to the Jews and Paul in many more places then Stephen.

Moses, not Jesus Christ was preached in the synagogues every sabbath 

Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

And Jesus said,

John 5:45-47 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. For had ye
believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

The Jews are also shown accusing Jesus of not keeping the Sabbath and doing what is unlawful in it (Mat 12:2, 12:5, Mark 2:24,Mark 2:27, Luke 2:6, Luke 13:14-16, Luke 14:5, John 5:10, John 5:10, John 9:16, and he was eventually falsely accused "to death" for it Acts 13:27

And He accused them of not keeping the law also

John 7:19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me? 

And yes Paul preached Christ in the synagogues, here's what I have, even right after he was converted, it says,

Acts 9:20 And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.

And Acts records his visits to various synagogues where they gathered to hear Moses preached

Acts 13:14 But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down.

Since there was often an opening given to those that sat to speak,  that was an opportunity to share Jesus Christ in a large gathering

Acts 13:15 And after the reading of the law and the prophets the rulers of the synagogue sent unto them, saying, Ye men and brethren, if ye have any word of exhortation for the people, say on.

Which opportunity Paul took

Acts 13:16 Then Paul stood up, and beckoning with his hand said, Men of Israel, and ye that fear God, give audience.

Acts 13:17 For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets  which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.

Paul preached Christ to them, and how they condemned their Messiah and they were to preach to Jew first, the Gentiles after (which would hear)

Acts 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them 

The next sabbath

Acts 13:43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.

Acts 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

Which is part of the provoking them 

Acts 13:45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.

And then he says here

Acts 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

But here he is again, and used three sabbath days to reason with them here

Acts 17:1 Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews: And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures, Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.

As was typical, some of them believed, and consorted with Paul and Silas But the Jews which believed not, moved with envy, took unto them certain lewd fellows of the baser sort, and gathered a company, and set all the city on an uproar, and assaulted the house of Jason, and sought to bring them out to the people. Acts 17:4-5

This was the life of a Jew who believed in Jesus Christ in the realm of the synagogue of the Jews (so much for a day of  rest)

Acts 17:10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into  the synagogue of the Jews.

Acts 17:11 -13  These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. But when the Jews of Thessalonica had knowledge that the word of God was preached of Paul at Berea, they came thither also, and stirred up the people.

Again, the life of a Jew who believes in Jesus Christ in  the synagogue of the Jews. (no real day of rest)

Acts 17:14 And then immediately the brethren sent away Paul to go as it were to the sea: but Silas and Timotheus abode there still.

He preached where he could find a place to preach and did so daily also

Acts 17:17 Therefore disputed he in the synagogue with the Jews, and with the devout persons, and in the market daily with them that met with him.

Acts 18:1 After these things Paul departed from Athens, and came to Corinth;...  And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks....Paul was pressed in the spirit, and testified to the Jews that Jesus was Christ.

And when they opposed themselves, and blasphemed, he shook his raiment, and said unto them, Your blood be upon your own heads; I am clean: from henceforth I will go unto the Gentiles.

Again, the life of the Jew who believes in Jesus Christ in the synagogue of the Jews. (no real day of rest there)

And so from henceforth Paul says, I will go unto the Gentiles.

And then here Paul says 

Col 2:16-17 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
 

And then we have the typical forum back and forth's, on meats, and days, even sabbaths (and what that means as we know or understand them) as we know it, but I think it would help to look at the ordinances at little closer, that could help, to define those more perfectly, although I could be deluded in thinking that, it probably couldn't hurt. Have you looked at those, or attempted this at all? Because those are referred to.

Anyway, I know my posts are too long, I will work on reducing the size, I start off smaller and then just keep adding in.

 

 

 

Yes- really looooong!lol

But seriously Sister,Beloved Sister you have done your due diligence and ALL Glory to God have really put that together beautifully-well done!

You know me ,not into the long winded post but I don't see how that could be shortened as summarizing could not give the full context

Anyway-Praise Jesus,a Good Word Spoken-may the readers have ears to hear in Jesus Name

With love in Christ,Kwik

[Anne2]

15 hours ago, tim_from_pa said:

I'm not under the Law, but under grace.  The issue about being "under the Law" in the Bible is one trying to earn righteousness by the Law

Hello tim.

I am reluctant to even respond since I somewhat agree with a previous poster that responded to me, going off subject of the thread. It is hard for me to not appear to do just that since the foundation of these discussions are the covenants made to Abraham.

Though I already posted these verses Let me do so again, hopefully to emphasize their importance as I understand them.

God say's this concerning them taking the land. It is the nation of Israel as a  righteousness above the nations. God' righteousness as a "JUDGE", when he judges between Israel and the nations. There were nations that God told Israel to leave alone. It was righteousness on a human, and national level EARTHLY. To show himself as a righteous judge between nations.

Deut 6:25  And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.

But  God also says It is not the righteousness that causes them to "inherit" the land.
Israel's inheritance of the land, and all the benefits that comes with it is by GOD'S own righteousness alone.

He is faithful to his OATH he swore to their fathers.

De 9:4  Speak not thou in thine heart, after that the LORD thy God hath cast them out from before thee, saying, For my righteousness the LORD hath brought me in to possess this land: but for the wickedness of these nations the LORD doth drive them out from before thee.
De 9:5  Not for thy righteousness, or for the uprightness of thine heart, dost thou go to possess their land: but for the wickedness of these nations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee, and that he may perform the word which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
De 9:6  Understand therefore, that the LORD thy God giveth thee not this good land to possess it for thy righteousness; for thou art a stiffnecked people.
 

 Israel as a Nation, inherits the Abrahamic promises OF INHERTANCE, the exact same way ALL DO. The faithfulness of God to keep his oath to ABRAHAM. PERIOD.

The promise of the covenant made in Jesus Christ alone.

Ge 17:6  And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
Nations and KINGS

Ge 17:6  And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.

Through Sarah
Ge 17:16  And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her.
 

And Isaac, and Jacob are made HEIRS of the SAME PROMISE (Hebrews speaks to this)

To Jacob (the Israel of God) As heir of the SAME PROMISE

Ge 35:9  And God appeared unto Jacob again, when he came out of Padanaram, and blessed him.
10  And God said unto him, Thy name is Jacob: thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name: and he called his name Israel.
11  And God said unto him, I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins;
12  And the land which I gave Abraham and Isaac, to thee I will give it, and to thy seed after thee will I give the land. (ie the same land he gave to abe,  and Isaac )
 

Quite frankly the covenant of genesis 17 is the promise  i.e. inheritance (as Hebrews teaches) is also necessarily a promise of the resurrection. These all died in faith, not having received it.

Gen 15,

Abraham dies along with Isaac and Jacob. It is the inheritance to the seed of the 4th generation. Which generation you all seem to make the foundation of your faith and hope.

Israel, every Jew, keeps the sign and seal of that Promise. They are loved and the earthly promise remains as long as this world and earth remains.

Edited November 16, 2023 by Anne2