Daniel 7

[Marilyn C]

27 minutes ago, douggg said:

Marilyn, the woman "sitting on 7 mountains" is not literally a woman large enough to sit on 7 literal mountains - I agree.

But the 7 mountains themselves are literal because they identify a location.

The 7 heads are not 7 mountains in verse 10 - but there are 7 kings associated with that place where the woman sits.

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

The place where the woman sits is Rome.  

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The woman in verse 1 also sits on many waters - which are the peoples and nations of the world.

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verse 1 - the woman sits on many waters

verse 3 - the woman is sitting on a scarlet colored beast - having 7 heads, 10 horns

verse 6 - the woman drunk on the blood of saints, martyred Christians.

verse 9 - the woman sits on 7 mountains

verse 16 - the ten horn kings destroy the woman with fire.

All of which point to the Vatican being burned to the ground at the time of king 8, the beast-king.

`..the great harlot who sits on many waters, with whom the kings of the earth committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth were made drunk with the wine of her fornication.`  (Rev. 17: 1 & 2)

So how has the Vatican affected every king/leaders of the earth and how have they made the inhabitants of the earth drunk? ` 

[douggg]

7 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

`..the great harlot who sits on many waters, with whom the kings of the earth committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth were made drunk with the wine of her fornication.`  (Rev. 17: 1 & 2)

So how has the Vatican affected every king/leaders of the earth and how have they made the inhabitants of the earth drunk? ` 

The Vatican has created doctrines regarding the authority and infalliblity of the Pope, and Mariology.    The kings of the earth have gone to extents to get approval from the Vatican for political reasons.

[Sister]

23 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Sister,

As Stormy has rightly pointed out Daniel was prophesying the future for Babylon was already there.

The great beasts come up one at a time and rule contemporaneously, (all at the same time). Note the 4th beastly great power treads down the others. Rome couldn`t do that because some had already gone - judged by God. 

Finally, the first three great beasts are in the time of the Lord setting up His rulership in Israel. They will have their power taken away but continue on for a time. This can`t be in the past.

Hi Marilyn

Yes that's obvious what Stormy pointed out because the scriptures say so!  I agree, that these kingdoms come after Babylon.

It all ties in together,....., the image in Dan 2, with the vision and interpretation in Dan 8 concerning the ram (Medo/Persia), and the he goat (Alexander/Grecia).  All this was fulfilled before Rome formed.  The British empire arose after Rome crumbled, thus into the future.  Great Britain can't be slotted in before the kingdoms of Medo/Persia and Grecia because they did not yet exist.

The vision of the 4 beasts was what was to come directly after Babylon.  The first two beasts refer to the kings of Medo and Persia.  They combined to become one empire.  Alexander of the Grecians was mentioned next.  This all ties in to the image of Dan 2.  Rome came next, but Rome changed.  It weakened, crumbled, then reformed into a new type of Rome mixed with other nations.  The nations are conglomerate, all working together to form the New World Order.  Islamic countries working together with them also, all in the club, but they will separate and the Islamic countries will form alliances and become the kings of the East, going against the agenda they were once part of, and will stand up against this modern Rome, the kings of the North.  This will start the 3rd world war AFTER the Mark of the Beast is issued, at the 6th trump.

 

[Marilyn C]

14 hours ago, douggg said:

The Vatican has created doctrines regarding the authority and infalliblity of the Pope, and Mariology.    The kings of the earth have gone to extents to get approval from the Vatican for political reasons.

Yes, in part but not over all the inhabitants of the earth. It is the `woke` philosophy - mother earth, save the planet, climate change, gender confusion etc, All making the people drunk, as in not in their right mind. 

[Marilyn C]

5 hours ago, Sister said:

Hi Marilyn

Yes that's obvious what Stormy pointed out because the scriptures say so!  I agree, that these kingdoms come after Babylon.

It all ties in together,....., the image in Dan 2, with the vision and interpretation in Dan 8 concerning the ram (Medo/Persia), and the he goat (Alexander/Grecia).  All this was fulfilled before Rome formed.  The British empire arose after Rome crumbled, thus into the future.  Great Britain can't be slotted in before the kingdoms of Medo/Persia and Grecia because they did not yet exist.

The vision of the 4 beasts was what was to come directly after Babylon.  The first two beasts refer to the kings of Medo and Persia.  They combined to become one empire.  Alexander of the Grecians was mentioned next.  This all ties in to the image of Dan 2.  Rome came next, but Rome changed.  It weakened, crumbled, then reformed into a new type of Rome mixed with other nations.  The nations are conglomerate, all working together to form the New World Order.  Islamic countries working together with them also, all in the club, but they will separate and the Islamic countries will form alliances and become the kings of the East, going against the agenda they were once part of, and will stand up against this modern Rome, the kings of the North.  This will start the 3rd world war AFTER the Mark of the Beast is issued, at the 6th trump.

 

Good to see that you are trying to understand these `beasts` as after Babylon. Now you may want to think upon this scripture.

`As for the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time.` (Dan. 7: 12)

[Charlie744]

Just now, Marilyn C said:

Good to see that you are trying to understand these `beasts` as after Babylon. Now you may want to think upon this scripture.

`As for the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time.` (Dan. 7: 12)

I agree  but differently. When pagan Rome came to power they did not destroy the 2nd and 3rd kingdoms of the Medes-Persians and Greeks, respectively. They were folded in with all of the other conquered nations of the world (people in England, Spain, France, etc.). They would continue but they would never return to the power they once enjoyed. 
 

Which is also why there are only 4 kingdoms. This last or 4th kingdom is indeed Rome (specifically pagan Rome) UNTIL we find in Daniel 7 when the 4th beast (pagan Rome) will be slain and its body is destroyed. This would happen in the late 5th century AD when the little horn , who would come to sit atop the 4th beast (after the destruction of pagan Rome) would rule over the Christian church and would replace pagan Rome. 
 

Daniel 7,8 9, 11 all comment on the “dividing@ of the 4th beast kingdom by this little horn who would remain until God returns and he is destroyed without human hands. 
 

 

[Marilyn C]

2 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

I agree  but differently. When pagan Rome came to power they did not destroy the 2nd and 3rd kingdoms of the Medes-Persians and Greeks, respectively. They were folded in with all of the other conquered nations of the world (people in England, Spain, France, etc.). They would continue but they would never return to the power they once enjoyed. 
 

Which is also why there are only 4 kingdoms. This last or 4th kingdom is indeed Rome (specifically pagan Rome) UNTIL we find in Daniel 7 when the 4th beast (pagan Rome) will be slain and its body is destroyed. This would happen in the late 5th century AD when the little horn , who would come to sit atop the 4th beast (after the destruction of pagan Rome) would rule over the Christian church and would replace pagan Rome. 
 

Daniel 7,8 9, 11 all comment on the “dividing@ of the 4th beast kingdom by this little horn who would remain until God returns and he is destroyed without human hands. 
 

 

If the 4th great beast is Rome (RRE)  and destroyed, then England, Spain, France etc would be also.

[Charlie744]

1 hour ago, Marilyn C said:

If the 4th great beast is Rome (RRE)  and destroyed, then England, Spain, France etc would be also.

No, pagan Rome ruled for almost 500 years conquering everyone in their path. They went in all 4 directions and did not care who they stamped on and brought under their rule. 
 

But during the 4th and 5th century AD, Rome was on the decline. They were being attacked from all sides and the were spread so thin… Their reign would come to an end while at the same time, the Christian church was gaining power. They would come to replace Imperial Rome and the little horn (papacy) would rule both the state and church. 
 

Most of chapter 11 is dedicated to this transition from the cross to the little horn taking power and it will be in this form that the 4th kingdom will continue until the end. It is both concerned with controlling the secular and the church. As it is mentioned in Daniel, the previous kingdoms will not be destroyed but folded in under the 4th beast kingdom.  
 

Daniel 7 is focused on the 4th beast kingdom AND the transition from pagan to papal Rome. 

 

[Marilyn C]

14 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

As it is mentioned in Daniel, the previous kingdoms will not be destroyed but folded in under the 4th beast kingdom.  
 

 

Have you realized that would mean they would be destroyed when the 4th beast is. 

[Charlie744]

1 hour ago, Marilyn C said:

Have you realized that would mean they would be destroyed when the 4th beast is. 

Well, the 4th kingdom of papal Rome will continue until the end. Meaning, ALL things will come to an end. After the time of the Gentiles (only God knows), He will remove the blindness from the eyes of His people. They will go out into the world and preach His Word and the Testimony of Jesus. It will then bring an end to the 4th and final GREAT JUBILEE CYCLE and then the Messiah will return. 
 

Then, His angels will separate the goats from the sheep. It is finished. 
 

Now, I have not found a verse in the Bible that provides exactly when God will destroy the little horn. But it does not really matter…. All who have rejected Jesus and not accepted Him as their Lord and Savior will be destroyed. 
 

Daniel 7 gives us a rather clear picture of the little horn who comes out after the 10 horns are coming out of the indescribable 4th beast. 
 

Daniel 7 reveals this same 4th kingdom of pagan Rome will be slain and its body destroyed. The little horn AND the 10 horns will now be revealed to “sit atop the 4th beast,” (after pagan Rome beast was slain). Then, this same little horn who has now come to “full power” over both secular and the Christian church (you will note the 10 toes of chapter 2 are the same as the 10 horns of chapter 7 and also in chapter 7, Gabriel tells Daniel these 10 horns are 10 kings! They will not be identified as “kings” until the 4th beast kingdom of pagan Rome is destroyed and THEY sit atop the 4th beast kingdom of papal Rome. 
 

Then, the little horn will subdue 3 of the 10. These events are all in chapter 7 and you can focus on 7:23-25, although earlier in the chapter there is a ton of prophecies given in Daniel’s vision. 
 

Hope this is somewhat clear. Please let me know your thoughts or would like to comment on these interpretations. You will not find them in any of today’s accepted interpretations, consequently, they will definitely sound “Greek” to all who hear them. 
 

But the most important thing about these new interpretations is they focus on the coming Messiah, His plan of restoration and salvation of the Jews and ALL mankind and NOT on a secular interpretation of Daniel. Thanks, Charlie