Influencers And Mass Murderers

[OneLight]

1 hour ago, Mr. M said:

All of you are redefining Influencer in a way that contradicts the OP, which then justifies stating that blanket statements are wrong. The OP begins with Jezebel, and then discusses Influencers as they are referred to in the modern parlance. Modern society does not define Influencers as "pretty much anyone sharing an opinion". They are some of the most successful Marketing stories out there. LSU gymnast Olivia Dunne made over $3 million dollars last year alone.

On line Influencers are big money makers, and they market themselves first, and then products they endorse. This is marketing 101 being applied to modern social media. I know of people who won't buy a book if it wasn't endorsed by Oprah. If you would read the OP and the follow-up post I made, it should be clear that we are not talking about the same thing. I have narrowly defined Influencer as the term being used in modern media, you all are redefining, and then finding fault with the OP using a broadened definition that includes children saying "I don't like broccoli". 

 

That is because the term "influencer" is not as narrowly defined as you define it.  If you want to say they influence others, that is correct, but you can't just redefine the meanings of words to defend a point.

[Mr. M]

9 minutes ago, OneLight said:

That is because the term "influencer" is not as narrowly defined as you define it.  If you want to say they influence others, that is correct, but you can't just redefine the meanings of words to defend a point.

And yet, for the OP and forum discussion Scriptures were provided to define the use, as well as how the word is currently being applied on social media. You and others defined the word as broadly as possible so as to make the OP pointless. I failed to see the point, nonetheless, I have answered the concerns to allow further discussion.

[Eman_3]

An influencer is someone in your niche or industry with sway over your target audience.

That is the definition of "influencer".

[AnOrangeCat]

1 hour ago, Mr. M said:

If you would prefer that I remain on that forum, please state so now,

or hold yourselves accountable for a change... @Michael37, @AnOrangeCat, @Who me, @OneLight. @Eman_3

and all the oversight that desire to censer me, understand and weigh your lose to gain.

 

It's almost always unfortunate to see someone leave, especially over something so minor.

1 hour ago, Mr. M said:

I may have assumed that the modern terminology was familiar, but I thought launching with Jezebel would give the OP a sense of direction. The follow up post should have been sufficient clarification.

The problem is that people disagree with your definition of the term. Was Jezebel an influencer of her day? Sure. No argument there. Are a lot of them motivated by money and/or morally and spiritually bankrupt? Absolutely. But lumping all influencers in with her is a misuse of the term. They can have a variety of motives and causes, and may in fact legitimately believe in or use what they're promoting. They can operate on a scale ranging from local to global. They aren't all success stories and millionaires. The majority certainly isn't always right, but if multiple brothers and sisters are taking issue with your definition then maybe it's time to reconsider the definition or just chalk it up to having a difference of opinions and move away from the topic itself rather than walking away from the community itself and assuming ill intent.

Instead what I'm seeing are posts about leaving because of "too much leaven", assuming people merely want to be contrary, and making what reads like an ultimatum. These are hallmarks of an emotional response. From what you've said it sounds like you're in a place of frustration. Take a break if you need to, and bear in mind Jeremiah 17:9: "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" If you take a break and still believe Worthy isn't the place for you I can't say you wouldn't be missed, but it's also okay. Like Paul said we're the body of Christ. Different individual believers connect at different places. If you're not connecting in a given group of believers it's unfortunate, but no matter how hard we might try we can't meaningfully graft a finger to an ear or vice versa and expect it to function in a proper or meaningful way.

I've said my part regarding the definition of influencer. You've said yours. We disagree, that's it. To continue further down that path is to indulge in what one of the verses you posted, I Timothy 6:4, warns against. Consequently I'm not going to engage in any further discussion over differing definitions, and I don't think anyone else should, either. There's a saying, "In essentials unity, in non-essentials liberty, in all things charity." In Romans 14:1 Paul expresses a thought similar to the second part, telling us not to quarrel over little things, using terms like "opinions" and "disputable matters" depending on translation. This thread is very much both of those things and isn't worth the fuss surrounding it.

What's far more important to me is this:

2 hours ago, Mr. M said:

I have voiced the opinion often that certain members come on my threads solely to be contrary and without edification.

Regardless of whether or not this is what's going on, the fact that you have this perception is worth some consideration on all sides. Opinions like that don't come out of nowhere, but rather in response to repeated exposure to particular stimuli. Maybe I'm naive but for my part I don't think the oversight team or our members are prone to acting out of malice. If anything the oversight has been rather generous in giving people the benefit of the doubt and gone above and beyond the call of duty in being patient and engaging as evidenced by some of the blatant trolls we've been blighted with over the past year or so.

For my part I apologize if I've come off as contrary, hostile, or aggressive toward you here or in other threads. I stand by all of what I've said and realize parts of this post could possibly be read that way, but none of it is in the spirit of wanting you to go away or feel bad.

[Mr. M]

26 minutes ago, AnOrangeCat said:

It's almost always unfortunate to see someone leave, especially over something so minor.

The reason I will no longer be initiating threads on this forum is a back channel issue, and better left at that.

 

27 minutes ago, AnOrangeCat said:

The problem is that people disagree with your definition of the term.

 

1 hour ago, Eman_3 said:

An influencer is someone in your niche or industry with sway over your target audience.

That is the definition of "influencer".

What is an Influencer? – Social Media Influencers Defined [Updated 2024]

https://influencermarketinghub.com/what-is-an-influencer/

 

An influencer is someone who has:

the power to affect the purchasing decisions of others because of his or her authority, knowledge, position, or relationship with his or her audience.

So then the real question is how does "purchasing decisions"

relate to "making sacrifices to idols".

One of the motivations, and I have none that do not involve what I have been shown by the Holy Spirit, is the FACT that many people have no concern over making this distinction.  I am well aware of those who dismiss these scriptures as outdated, an issue from 2000 years ago and a culture we do not understand.

The fact is that the issues of 2000 years ago under modern technology and media influence are 2000X more valid; Especially when it is noted that the apostle Paul links idolatry to covetousness, and should be a major concern, particularly in the West.

36 minutes ago, AnOrangeCat said:

hey can have a variety of motives and causes, and may in fact legitimately believe in or use what they're promoting. They can operate on a scale ranging from local to global. They aren't all success stories and millionaires. The majority certainly isn't always right, but if multiple brothers and sisters are taking issue with your definition then maybe it's time to reconsider the definition or just chalk it up to having a difference of opinions and move away from the topic itself rather than walking away from the community itself and assuming ill intent.

I appreciate your input, but I would no sooner walk away from the issue than defy the Lord's directive. I certainly do not assume malice on the behalf of every person, nor do I ever accept opinion as truth. Here is the next point I will make and it will be clear. Others have made the whole issue about influencers and no one has considered the second part of the post which addresses Peter's teaching on being "busy bodies". Gk G244 al-lot-ree-ep-is'-kop-os= a meddler's in other's affairs.

The point has been raised that an influencer could have nothing but good intentions, and no thought for personal gain. Do you think evangelists have good intentions? Of course, and yet some fall under the same condemnation!

13 But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in. 

15 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.

Intentions are not enough, as clearly the judgment is upon intent and motive. Most denominations engage in some form of outreach, but I know for a fact that this is quite often nothing more than "church growth strategy", and that is not my terminology. There are "experts" on this who will come to small churches and teach methodology.

Are there intentions good? Perhaps. Are their motives pure? Hopefully. Neither is a valid argument unless both align with the Lord's Will. If anyone thinks my motive and intent comes from anything beyond presenting what I receive directly from my personal devotions, they are free to make that judgment. I don't watch YouTube videos, listen to radio or TV preachers or teachers or read popular books at all. My commitment is to maintaining a purity of motive and intent.

The point is this brothers and sisters: this topic is not going to be easily dismissed by personal opinion, or disagreement over definition. Unfortunately, the opposition does not line up with the actual dictionary definition, much less the notion of someone's will being imposed upon by unsolicited opinions. And yes, we are to take into account those who are feeble minded and may be more susceptible. This teaching is for the edification of all.

1 Thessalonians 5:14 Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly,

comfort the feeble-minded, support the weak, be patient toward all men.

1 hour ago, AnOrangeCat said:

For my part I apologize if I've come off as contrary, hostile, or aggressive toward you here or in other threads. I stand by all of what I've said and realize parts of this post could possibly be read that way, but none of it is in the spirit of wanting you to go away or feel bad.

No apologies necessary. I only mentioned you because I noted that you had reacted to another's posting. Your response was thorough and well thought out, and always appreciated, though it has been awhile. As to disagreement, wow, this could not be a more important topic in this day and age, and to minimize this to "a quarrel over little things" should be reconsidered. I have never originated a thread as such, and have rarely engaged in debating and arguing. I certainly do not consider defending and adding further support to a teaching as being such.

It would be well-advised to consider a companion thread, and do as I have always done as an "influencer", which is encourage others to read Matthew 23, Revelations 2 and 3, and any other scriptures that engage in correction, admonition, exhortation or rebuke, and consider as how it may apply to you. I have received much correction from the Lord in doing so, and would prefer that every brother and sister receive theirs after the same manner.

 

I sincerely pray that all would receive my comments as a motivation to go deeper. But if the preference is to quickly dismiss as a difference of opinion, so be it. I am sure that soon enough, this thread will go the way of so many others, and there will be no need for me to continue to support the posts that already exist on this thread, and forum. I will certainly continue to teach elsewhere, regardless if what I present seems unworthy.

[Michael37]

5 hours ago, Mr. M said:

If you would prefer that I remain on that forum, please state so now,

or hold yourselves accountable for a change... @Michael37, @AnOrangeCat, @Who me, @OneLight. @Eman_3

and all the oversight that desire to censer me, understand and weigh your lose to gain.

There's a certain irony to this thread, and the developments that have resulted.

Just a friendly reminder to all, members should not publicly contest Oversight Ministry matters, but use PM, Report, or start a segregated discussion with us in the last section of Christian Discussions, see below:

[Mr. M]

14 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

There's a certain irony to this thread, and the developments that have resulted.

Just a friendly reminder to all, members should not publicly contest Oversight Ministry matters, but use PM, Report, or start a segregated discussion with us in the last section of Christian Discussions, see below:

Yeah, I overstepped but tried to walk it back here.

1 hour ago, Mr. M said:

2 hours ago, AnOrangeCat said:

It's almost always unfortunate to see someone leave, especially over something so minor.

The reason I will no longer be initiating threads on this forum is a back channel issue, and better left at that.

 

[Mr. M]

30 minutes ago, Slibhin said:

I'm a professional model and my job is to "influence" people to buy clothes.

I have no desire to impose on your conscience.

31 minutes ago, Slibhin said:

It's called advertising and is part of the capitalist system we all love so much.

Speak for yourself. Not everyone is an admirer of the western consumer society, the psychological manipulation of marketing, and it's excesses. Yeshua said, "you cannot serve God and Mammon", and I understand that you do not hold His teachings as particularly relevant. On the other hand, not all Jews see godliness as gain, and are willing to do whatever is socially acceptable for the almighty dollar.

35 minutes ago, Slibhin said:

I really don't get why anyone cares what some TikTok talking head thinks about anything, but if a company is willing g to pay them for advertising... well its their money.

I agree, although many would say that it is more than simply their money, but their god.

[RdJ]

11 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

I have no desire to impose on your conscience.

Speak for yourself. Not everyone is an admirer of the western consumer society, the psychological manipulation of marketing, and it's excesses. Yeshua said, "you cannot serve God and Mammon", and I understand that you do not hold His teachings as particularly relevant. On the other hand, not all Jews see godliness as gain, and are willing to do whatever is socially acceptable for the almighty dollar.

I agree, although many would say that it is more than simply their money, but their god.

And then what about all the others who serve Mammon? What about all these actors and actrices? Why did you pick influencers? I only know the term from articles about some people who don't want a regular job and they want a free meal and get a no. How is that of much influence on the church? Influential to the church, the woman Jezebel who says she's a prophetess, I would assume that is a supposed christian with bad influence, like Paula White or something, praying for Trump, she deceives my servants to fornicate. She preached that it was good for your marriage to watch porn. Or any other person who is influential in the church and says similar stuff. Not some girl who gets a free meal to advertise for a restaurant.

[Mr. M]

12 minutes ago, RdJ said:

I would assume that is a supposed christian with bad influence, like Paula White or something, praying for Trump, she deceives my servants to fornicate. She preached that it was good for your marriage to watch porn. Or any other person who is influential in the church and says similar stuff.

This is a very good point. Thanks for sharing that. I am not that familiar with Paula White and she has no influence on me, but if this is the case, it is a good word of caution for all on who they allow to influence their faith. Many may find you naming someone as bad form, but the thought behind the post should be well received, and more in line with the type of discussion I hoped to stimulate.

I made no attempt to limit what should be addressed, others jumped on my use of a word, while ignoring the whole of the OP, and the comparison made to Peter's teaching on being a busy body. His mention of them with evildoers, thieves and murderers contributed to the inspiration for the title, but no one seemed to catch on to that. Why Mass Murderers Mr. M? I guess you have to read the entire OP and make an effort to comprehend the teaching before throwing out an opinion, and then accuse me of arguing over a difference of opinion.

I can continue to support my concerns with the scriptures as I have throughout this and the other Jezebel thread. If someone wants to voice a difference of opinion, they could at least reflect on the scriptures cited, as I would be interested in hearing that.