God's historic national rods of His wrath, discipline and purification of Israel and what that may portend.

[luigi]

2 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

These events take place from 606 BC to approximately 500 AD (when the little horn comes to full power) - not in 1 generation. 
 

The first 3 kingdoms cover from 606 BC to the end of Greece (3rd kingdom) — assuming Greece began around 330, Alexander ruled for 13 years and then his 4 general ruled their territories for another 20 years brings us to around (300 BC) then the 4th kingdom of Imperial Rome began around 63BC. 
 

The 4th beast kingdom will continue from 63 BC to its demise in 467 AD, when “it will be slain and its body is destroyed,” (7:11).

 

By saying the events in Daniel 8 and the Olivet discourse occur from 606 BC to approximately 500 AD; denies the Lords Word in Daniel 8:17 & 19, and the Olivet discourse, which declare these events during the end times.

[Jonathan Dane]

9 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

I said the kingdom was promised to the seed of Abraham thousands of years ago.

Genesis 17

⁸ And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

 

 

God promised to give the land of Canaan ,where the little horn dwells today ,to the seed of Abraham for an everlasting possession.After the little horns kingdom is destroyed,that kingdom will be given to Abrahams seed for an everlasting possession.

 

Daniel 7

 

²⁶ But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

²⁷ And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

 

 

The kingdom.will be taken from the antichrist Jews who govern it day and given to the saints of Israel for an everlasting possession.All them in Christ who is Abrahams seed.

 

Galatians 3:16

The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,” meaning one person, who is Christ.

 

 

The prophecy has nothing to do with Rome or the americas.Rome was never promised to be an everlasting kingdom for the seed of Abraham nor was America.

Help me out. Will God restore the Israelites to the land of their ancestors in modern-day Israel, and will Christ and King David rule there over Gentile nations for 1000 years in the future? Yes or no?

[WilliamL]

On 4/2/2024 at 1:03 AM, Jonathan Dane said:

Which nation will give rise to the Antichrist, who will be God's instrument of wrath and discipline against Israel in the coming years?
The most powerful nation on Earth.

Which nation is the most powerful on Earth?

Wrong question. Right question: which nation will be the most powerful on earth at that time.

So far, we can only speculate at the answer.

[Jonathan Dane]

9 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

The boldface text of yours shows Israel defeating Syria,Jordan and Egypt .That war took place before Benjamin netanyahu became primi minister.Therefore the he in your texts is the Israeli government as a whole which calls itself Israel.

 

Can you show me one other place in Scripture where the masculine pronoun "he" is used to describe a "government?" I do not claim to be either a scholar of Hebrew or Greek, but I think you are making serious tense errors with the grammar. Can you also show where the Bible says that "systems" are thrown into the Lake of Fire as is indicated for the Beast and False Prophet in Rev. 19:20?

[Jonathan Dane]

8 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Here are the saints in their everlasting kingdom.This  the same land wherein the little horns kingdom was located before it's destruction 

 

 

Revelation 20

⁹ And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

 

 

These saints are not in America.

What happens at the end of Rev. 2o takes place at the end of the Millennium. You are playing mix-and-match with biblical texts.

[Jonathan Dane]

4 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

Wrong question. Right question: which nation will be the most powerful on earth at that time.

So far, we can only speculate at the answer.

Fair enough. I would suggest that the time is now.

[Charlie744]

9 minutes ago, luigi said:

I did not state the four seceded horns as being four metaphorical kingdoms.

If the little horn rises from one of the four seceded horns of the notable horn of the he goat, and this little horn (the AoD), is the same little horn who is the 10 horned fourth beasts mouth speaking of great things in Daniel 7; we then realize that until the he goats notable horn secedes into four horns of power; that the fourth beast is currently comprised having only 7 horns. These 7 horns of power today, I believe correspond with the 7 heads of the beast, but who when the notable horn secedes into four horns, will not be allowed an additional 3 heads at their table.

 

Oh, I think I see and I apologize for not understanding your meaning.

Let me try and respond with a very different interpretation of the verses you are referring to. 
 

1) the he-goat horn who is “very great” is Alexander. The 4 generals WILL be given the 4 territories from his kingdom after his death. BUT they are NOT EVER identified as “HORNS.” They are identified as “4 notable ones.” This is why God purposefully selected “horns” to identity and separate the identity of the remaining “powers” that would continue within His plan of salvation and restoration. God is not following OUR history books. 
 

He has given us the 4 and only 4 kingdoms that will be established WITHIN HIS PLAN OF RESTORATION / SALVATION. Further, His chapter 2 identification of the 4 kingdoms reflects His “ blueprint” of the 4 kingdoms that will never change. In chapter 2, He gives us the borders and boundaries, the restrictions and guidelines for each of the 4 to ensure they are fixed, and all the coming prophecies found in the later chapters of Daniel, despite using different symbols, will never be interpreted OUTSIDE these 4 kingdoms. It also tells us that there is NO bleeding over or between any of the 4 kingdoms. 
 

And this is so important since most commentators do not treat the 4 generals as STAYING WITHIN THE 3rd kingdom. But they do or should not be a we also see them as the 4 heads on the leopard in chapter 8 (3rd kingdom). The 4 generals (period which may have continued another 20 / 30 years or so) will be replaced by the last or final “little horn.” He will clearly come OUT OF THE 4th kingdom- not the 3rd. 

So the 4th beast kingdom will arrive around 63BC (Imperial Rome) and be in perfect position for many of the earlier prophecies:

1) the coming end of the 70 weeks of years prophecy in 33/34 AD,

2) The end of the 4th and final Great Tribulation in 33/34 AD (although it still has 3.5 years to be completed),

3) The arrival of the Messiah at the beginning of the 70th week of the prophecy, 

4) the complete restoration of His people and His city at the 70th week of years prophecy. 

The most important events in the history of mankind, the arrival of Jesus and His crucifixion is all captured within the 4th kingdom of pagan Rome. These prophecies are not end time prophecies. 

 

 

 

[Shilohsfoal]

14 minutes ago, Jonathan Dane said:

Help me out. Will God restore the Israelites to the land of their ancestors in modern-day Israel, and will Christ and King David rule there over Gentile nations for 1000 years in the future? Yes or no?

Yes,after the little horn who calls itself israel.is destroyed.

[WilliamL]

4 minutes ago, Jonathan Dane said:

Fair enough. I would suggest that the time is now.

Maybe soon, but certainly not now. We'll know more about the times and the players when we see the Daniel 11:40 war commence, soon followed by Israel being occupied by the Son of Perdition.

But the Son of Perdition is NOT the Beast, so a lot depends on who you mean when you use the term "the Antichrist." A term with a whole lot of baggage surrounding it, and causing more confusion than understanding, IMHO.

[Charlie744]

24 minutes ago, luigi said:

By saying the events in Daniel 8 and the Olivet discourse occur from 606 BC to approximately 500 AD; denies the Lords Word in Daniel 8:17 & 19, and the Olivet discourse, which declare these events during the end times.

First, I never brought in the Olivet Discourse. But what I am saying the events in Daniel are NOT end time events. 
 

So, if you would like to tell me what events in the Olivet Discourse I am saying are NOT end time events because you believe I am declaring them to take place in the 4th kingdom, please let me know them and I am sure we can reconcile them.