Jesus coming on a white horse in Revelation 19 is not the second coming

[JoeCanada]

                         Jesus coming on a white horse in Revelation 19 is not the second coming.

 

Jesus coming on the clouds in Matthew 24 is the second coming - and Revelation 19's Jesus coming on a white horse is something else.

 

I can hear most of you say "What?....has Joe Canada lost his marbles?"....... 

 

Christians have built their entire eschatological theory on the assumption that the two comings in Matt 24 and Rev 19 are the same event.

 

The pre-trib and post-trib rapture are both built on this assumption.

 

The Rev 19 Second Coming being the same event as Jesus' coming on the clouds in Matt 24 is probably one of the greatest assumptions in the bible.

 

As Scripture will show, these two events have nothing in common. Scripture will interpret Scripture by using shared words or shared events between two passages to show that the two things are the same. There are no shared words or symbols between the events in Matt 24 and Rev 19.

 

The second coming IS the FIRST time that Jesus returns in great glory and power - He can only do that ONE time. But..... He can return more than once. It's the difference between a return and a coming.

 

Okay.... let's look at some scriptures:

 

In Jesus's explanation of the end times in Matthew 24, after the great tribulation, our Lord descends from heaven coming on the clouds, with power and great glory....the shekinah glory of  God. 

 

In Revelation 19, at the end of Revelation, Jesus descends from heaven riding a white horse, accompanied by heavens armies. Where is the horse in Matt 24? There is no horse to be seen. In Matt 26 we read " Thereafter, you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the power and coming on the clouds of heaven. This shows Jesus initially comes seated on a throne, next to the invisible Father, and that everyone will see this. But..... NO horse. If Jesus left heaven on a horse, how did he end up on a throne.

 

In Rev 6:16.... "Hide us from the presence of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb".... Again, Jesus is seated  on a throne when the whole world sees Him and the unrighteous ask to hide.

Another view: ...... "I looked and behold, a white cloud and sitting on the cloud was one like the Son of Man.... Rev 14:14

And another :...... "But when the Son of Man comes in His glory and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne...... Matt 25:31

 

So..... where's the horse and the armies?

 

Did Jesus do some fancy cowboy moves and jump off His horse and land on His throne?

 

Not likely..... there is one coming - Jesus on a throne Matt 24..................... and another return - Jesus on a horse Rev 19. 

 

The Seal Trumpet and Bowl judgments have 21 events between them, each one having 7.... 7 seals, 7 trumpets, 7 bowls.

 

The disciples asked Jesus in Matt 24:5-14 what would be the sign of His coming and of the end of the age. Jesus then proceeded to mention six signs or events prior to His coming..... false messiahs, wars and rumors of wars, famines and earthquakes, tribulation, apostasy and preaching of the gospel to the whole world..... 

Yet, Jesus didn't mention even one of the judgments in the trumpet and bowls, which are unquestionably signs of incredible severity - burning of 1/3 of the earth population by fire and brimstone, stinging of unbelievers by demon locusts, etc.

 

There can only be one explanation why they aren't mentioned by Jesus. These judgments come after His glorious coming. To say otherwise is an enormous contradiction. 

 

Jesus equates the Wrath of God, which follows the great tribulation, with Noah's flood in the form of an analogy..... Matt 24:37-39

 

Jesus says that in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage until the day when Noah entered the ark and they were unaware until the flood came (wrath of God) and swept them all away. So will be the coming of the Son of Man.

 

Jesus tells us the unrighteous will be living normal lives right up to the coming of Jesus - eating, drinking, marrying and giving in marriage and in Luke 17, Jesus adds buying and selling, planting and building - a full summation of normal living right up until the day of Jesus' coming.

 

Do you really think that normal living will be taking place during the Trumpet and Bowl judgments, when 1/3 of the earth is burned with fire and brimstone - demonic locusts stinging for 5 months and people wanting to die but can't - earthquakes levelling cities and mountains, moving islands - 100 pound hailstones crushing any and every thing - boils and sores on people - oceans and fresh water all poisoned?

 

Jesus' garments are stained in Rev 19 - they are dipped in blood before He mounts a white horse and leaves heaven. This happens, as Isaiah 63:1-4 describes, where He pours out His wrath on Edom, and stains His garments with the blood of the unrighteous, treading the winepress of God Almighty. This means that He was on the earth prior to Rev 19. Jesus says He treads this by himself, there was no-one with Him, yet in Rev 19 He comes with the armies from heaven. 

 

Jesus' primary purpose in Matthew 24 is the gathering of the saints - this is a main theme in the bible. Both the old and new testament speak of it. And yet in Rev 19, we find the main theme is Jesus returning with His armies to wipe out the antichrist and his hordes. There is no mention of any gathering of the saints.

 

The darkening of the sun moon and stars takes place after the 6th seal. This major event is not seen in Rev 19. What is seen at the 6th seal is the sun darkened, the moon is darkened to blood, the stars fall, the powers of the heavens are shaken as the sky is rolled like a scroll, a great and mighty earthquake, the tribes of  the earth mourn and hide in caves ------------------------------ THEN-------------------------- Jesus appears, breaks the blackest darkness by His Shekinah Glory, blazing in light, coming on the clouds, seated on a throne..... and then:

 

                            "And He will send forth His angels with a Great Trumpet..... and they will gather                                              together His elect, from the four winds.... from one end of the sky to the other"

 

The Parousia is the coming of our Glorious Savior. It is the one and only Parousia. It is referred to this way 18 times in Scripture and yet, Rev  19 does not use this term.

 

One more point:

 

Satan, the beast and the false prophet know when Jesus is coming in Rev 19. In Rev 16:14-16 we see these three send out demonic spirits to gather the kings of the earth to fight Jesus in the battle of Armageddon. They know Jesus is returning for the final showdown... to fight him.

Yet.... in Math 24 we are told that no-one knows the day or the hour of Jesus' coming..... so Rev 19 can't be that coming. 

 

If the two events were the same.... Matt 24 and Rev 19.... there would be similar symbols.

But there is nothing about the two accounts that are  similar.

They are completely and utterly different. 

 

         Jesus tells us when He is coming back. He tells us in His own words in Matthew 24:29-31. Read it!

[Diaste]

On 4/29/2024 at 11:51 AM, JoeCanada said:

The disciples asked Jesus in Matt 24:5-14 what would be the sign of His coming and of the end of the age. Jesus then proceeded to mention six signs or events prior to His coming..... false messiahs, wars and rumors of wars, famines and earthquakes, tribulation, apostasy and preaching of the gospel to the whole world..... 

Yet, Jesus didn't mention even one of the judgments in the trumpet and bowls, which are unquestionably signs of incredible severity - burning of 1/3 of the earth population by fire and brimstone, stinging of unbelievers by demon locusts, etc.

"wars and rumors of wars" 

"Then another horse went forth. It was bright red, and its rider was granted permission to take away peace from the earth and to make men slay one another. And he was given a great sword."

Sounds like war to me. 

"famines"

"And I heard what sounded like a voice from among the four living creatures, saying, “A quart of wheat for a denarius,a and three quarts of barley for a denarius"

That's a loaf of bread for a days wage. This is caused by the 1st trump. 

"preaching of the gospel to the whole world"

"Then I saw another angel flying overhead, with the eternal gospel to proclaim to those who dwell on the earth"

The eternal Gospel proclaimed to the whole world. 

The above is in the midst of the end of the age just prior to the appearance of the Lord. The seals are conditions that will exist or events that will occur. The seals are an overview of the end of the age with trumps all occurring within the seals. 

Jesus clearly spoke of this since the disciples asked, "“Tell us,” they said, “when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming and of the end of the age?”"

 

Edited May 3 by Diaste

[WilliamL]

On 4/29/2024 at 11:51 AM, JoeCanada said:

Jesus coming on a white horse in Revelation 19 is not the second coming.

As I have pointed out before, their is no scripture that uses the words "the second coming." This is a doctrine of men.

[JoeCanada]

20 hours ago, WilliamL said:

As I have pointed out before, their is no scripture that uses the words "the second coming." This is a doctrine of men.

I don't believe I used any scripture that says "second coming"

There are numerous places in scripture that say that Jesus is coming again..... or do you not believe that?

Acts 1:11...... "Men of Galillee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven"

"Will come"..... Jesus came once and was crucified.... so He will come again...... or second coming.

1 Thes 3:13...... " so that He may establish your hearts without blame in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus with all His saints"

"at the coming"..... second coming obviously

[JoeCanada]

On 4/30/2024 at 2:04 AM, Diaste said:

The seals are conditions that will exist or events that will occur. The seals are an overview of the end of the age with trumps and seals all occurring within the seals.

Jesus comes back at the end of the sixth seal, which I believe from past conversations that, you equate this with the seventh trumpet.(Please correct me if I'm wrong)

Knowing all the destruction and open demonic activity that's going on, on the earth and the peoples of the earth, during the seven trumpets,  how can a person believe scripture that says the people will be oblivious to what's going on.... that they will be marrying and building and planting and eating and drinking...... all normal everyday activities..........amidst  massive earthquakes, tsunami's, fire and brimstone, 100 pound hail stones, being tortured by demonic locusts for 5 months.... billions of people being killed...... etc etc......... etc.

It makes no sense.

[TheBlade]

Many Scholars  disagree with you.  Not sure why you posted this. Well your not here to chat about it that's clear "Jesus coming on a white horse in Revelation 19 is not the second coming" we noticed "is not". Now me I would have started it with "I believe blah blah blah is not the second coming and heres why". 

Thanks for sharing

[R. Hartono]

On 4/30/2024 at 12:51 AM, JoeCanada said:

                         Jesus coming on a white horse in Revelation 19 is not the second coming.

 

Jesus coming on the clouds in Matthew 24 is the second coming - and Revelation 19's Jesus coming on a white horse is something else.

 

I can hear most of you say "What?....has Joe Canada lost his marbles?"....... 

 

Christians have built their entire eschatological theory on the assumption that the two comings in Matt 24 and Rev 19 are the same event.

 

The pre-trib and post-trib rapture are both built on this assumption.

 

The Rev 19 Second Coming being the same event as Jesus' coming on the clouds in Matt 24 is probably one of the greatest assumptions in the bible.

 

As Scripture will show, these two events have nothing in common. Scripture will interpret Scripture by using shared words or shared events between two passages to show that the two things are the same. There are no shared words or symbols between the events in Matt 24 and Rev 19.

 

The second coming IS the FIRST time that Jesus returns in great glory and power - He can only do that ONE time. But..... He can return more than once. It's the difference between a return and a coming.

 

Okay.... let's look at some scriptures:

 

In Jesus's explanation of the end times in Matthew 24, after the great tribulation, our Lord descends from heaven coming on the clouds, with power and great glory....the shekinah glory of  God. 

 

In Revelation 19, at the end of Revelation, Jesus descends from heaven riding a white horse, accompanied by heavens armies. Where is the horse in Matt 24? There is no horse to be seen. In Matt 26 we read " Thereafter, you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the power and coming on the clouds of heaven. This shows Jesus initially comes seated on a throne, next to the invisible Father, and that everyone will see this. But..... NO horse. If Jesus left heaven on a horse, how did he end up on a throne.

 

In Rev 6:16.... "Hide us from the presence of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb".... Again, Jesus is seated  on a throne when the whole world sees Him and the unrighteous ask to hide.

Another view: ...... "I looked and behold, a white cloud and sitting on the cloud was one like the Son of Man.... Rev 14:14

And another :...... "But when the Son of Man comes in His glory and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne...... Matt 25:31

 

So..... where's the horse and the armies?

 

Did Jesus do some fancy cowboy moves and jump off His horse and land on His throne?

 

Not likely..... there is one coming - Jesus on a throne Matt 24..................... and another return - Jesus on a horse Rev 19. 

 

The Seal Trumpet and Bowl judgments have 21 events between them, each one having 7.... 7 seals, 7 trumpets, 7 bowls.

 

The disciples asked Jesus in Matt 24:5-14 what would be the sign of His coming and of the end of the age. Jesus then proceeded to mention six signs or events prior to His coming..... false messiahs, wars and rumors of wars, famines and earthquakes, tribulation, apostasy and preaching of the gospel to the whole world..... 

Yet, Jesus didn't mention even one of the judgments in the trumpet and bowls, which are unquestionably signs of incredible severity - burning of 1/3 of the earth population by fire and brimstone, stinging of unbelievers by demon locusts, etc.

 

There can only be one explanation why they aren't mentioned by Jesus. These judgments come after His glorious coming. To say otherwise is an enormous contradiction. 

 

Jesus equates the Wrath of God, which follows the great tribulation, with Noah's flood in the form of an analogy..... Matt 24:37-39

 

Jesus says that in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage until the day when Noah entered the ark and they were unaware until the flood came (wrath of God) and swept them all away. So will be the coming of the Son of Man.

 

Jesus tells us the unrighteous will be living normal lives right up to the coming of Jesus - eating, drinking, marrying and giving in marriage and in Luke 17, Jesus adds buying and selling, planting and building - a full summation of normal living right up until the day of Jesus' coming.

 

Do you really think that normal living will be taking place during the Trumpet and Bowl judgments, when 1/3 of the earth is burned with fire and brimstone - demonic locusts stinging for 5 months and people wanting to die but can't - earthquakes levelling cities and mountains, moving islands - 100 pound hailstones crushing any and every thing - boils and sores on people - oceans and fresh water all poisoned?

 

Jesus' garments are stained in Rev 19 - they are dipped in blood before He mounts a white horse and leaves heaven. This happens, as Isaiah 63:1-4 describes, where He pours out His wrath on Edom, and stains His garments with the blood of the unrighteous, treading the winepress of God Almighty. This means that He was on the earth prior to Rev 19. Jesus says He treads this by himself, there was no-one with Him, yet in Rev 19 He comes with the armies from heaven. 

 

Jesus' primary purpose in Matthew 24 is the gathering of the saints - this is a main theme in the bible. Both the old and new testament speak of it. And yet in Rev 19, we find the main theme is Jesus returning with His armies to wipe out the antichrist and his hordes. There is no mention of any gathering of the saints.

 

The darkening of the sun moon and stars takes place after the 6th seal. This major event is not seen in Rev 19. What is seen at the 6th seal is the sun darkened, the moon is darkened to blood, the stars fall, the powers of the heavens are shaken as the sky is rolled like a scroll, a great and mighty earthquake, the tribes of  the earth mourn and hide in caves ------------------------------ THEN-------------------------- Jesus appears, breaks the blackest darkness by His Shekinah Glory, blazing in light, coming on the clouds, seated on a throne..... and then:

 

                            "And He will send forth His angels with a Great Trumpet..... and they will gather                                              together His elect, from the four winds.... from one end of the sky to the other"

 

The Parousia is the coming of our Glorious Savior. It is the one and only Parousia. It is referred to this way 18 times in Scripture and yet, Rev  19 does not use this term.

 

One more point:

 

Satan, the beast and the false prophet know when Jesus is coming in Rev 19. In Rev 16:14-16 we see these three send out demonic spirits to gather the kings of the earth to fight Jesus in the battle of Armageddon. They know Jesus is returning for the final showdown... to fight him.

Yet.... in Math 24 we are told that no-one knows the day or the hour of Jesus' coming..... so Rev 19 can't be that coming. 

 

If the two events were the same.... Matt 24 and Rev 19.... there would be similar symbols.

But there is nothing about the two accounts that are  similar.

They are completely and utterly different. 

 

         Jesus tells us when He is coming back. He tells us in His own words in Matthew 24:29-31. Read it!

That Rev 19 is Jesus return to earth with SAINTS ( church) previously raptured before the great tribulation of the 7 Seals begins.

[JoeCanada]

2 hours ago, TheBlade said:

Many Scholars  disagree with you.  Not sure why you posted this. Well your not here to chat about it that's clear "Jesus coming on a white horse in Revelation 19 is not the second coming" we noticed "is not". Now me I would have started it with "I believe blah blah blah is not the second coming and heres why". 

Thanks for sharing

I agree that they disagree. :)  Many, if not most scholars and bible expositors, students etc think that Rev 19 is indeed the second coming.

But scripture disagrees with them. 

That's the reason I posted this. If a person takes in the whole council of God and not just a few cherry-picked verses, then they will see that scripture does indeed declare that Jesus does come well before Rev 19. 

His appearance and coming in the clouds at the sixth seal is what then? 

It's His return, His second coming, in the clouds as the two men in Acts 1:11 testify....." This same Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven."

How did He go into heaven?..... In a cloud.

How is He coming back ..... He's the cloud rider, throughout scripture. He's coming back in a cloud.

In Rev 19..... heaven is opened up. The earth dwellers see Jesus on a horse and an army of angels following Him. No clouds.

Thanks for your input.

[JoeCanada]

1 hour ago, R. Hartono said:

That Rev 19 is Jesus return to earth with SAINTS ( church) previously raptured before the great tribulation of the 7 Seals begins.

Well..... I agree with part of this reply.

"That Rev 19 is Jesus return to earth"

That I agree with, as scripture declares.

[Marilyn C]

On 4/30/2024 at 3:51 AM, JoeCanada said:

                         Jesus coming on a white horse in Revelation 19 is not the second coming.

 

 

 

 

It is when the Lord comes a second time to the earth. He comes symbolically on a while horse with His angelic army also.

Horse - power,

White - light, glory.

Jesus comes in power and great glory.