Jesus coming on a white horse in Revelation 19 is not the second coming

[Revelation Man]

On 5/27/2024 at 3:21 PM, WilliamL said:

You will instead be humiliated, unless you repudiate much of what you have taught. But if you pay close attention to the events that come to pass in the period from Daniel 11:40 to 11:44, then you will have that chance.

You will get it one day, after the Pre Trib. rapture a light bulb will come on. You can never overcome my points so we get "THIS ABOVE". Great. 

[Revelation Man]

On 5/28/2024 at 3:37 PM, The Light said:

Barley is the dead in Christ. Wheat is the alive that remained. Grapes are Israel

Hosea 9

10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

No, Barley is the Bride of Christ, both dead and alive. Barley needs not be crushed in order to be harvested and sifted. Wheat does, so the Wheat is Israel as a Nation, Jews as individuals who come to Christ during the Church Age are a part of the Bride of Christ and are thus Barley (they do not need to go through the tribulation to be Harvested & Sifted). 

So, the word Tribulation comes from a Greek word "Tribulum" which is a machine used for "Harvesting Wheat" so the very English word we use for tribulation comes from a Greek machine or Greek word for a machine that is used for "CRUSHING WHEAT" and Barley does not need to be crushed in order to be Harvested. The symbolism is sky high, yet you do not seem to grasp it.

1.) The Barley = The Bride of Christ who are in Christ Jesus now, the Bride are saved BY FAITH ALONE, we are ready for Heaven NOW !! We are ready to be Harvested NOW, both Jew & Greek/Gentiles.

2.) The Wheat = Israel they will GROW TOGETHER with the Wicked Tares until the VERY END [of the world as we know it under Satan]. They will be Harvested into God's barn (as humans living in the Kingdom Age) while the Gentile Martyrs or "Remnant Church" will rule with Christ on earth for 1000 years after they are Judged in Rev. 20:4 with Glorious bodies.

3.) The Wicked Grapes & Tares are the exact same people. The Tares remember are bound to be burned LATER (like in a 1000 years at the 2nd Resurrection). The Wicked Grapes are crushed, Jesus slays the Wicked at Armageddon. 

CASE CLOSED !!

On 5/28/2024 at 3:37 PM, The Light said:

Nope. The trumps and vial happen in the timeframe known as the wrath of God.

Yessssss and I stated as much, because the Vials come out of the 7th Trump.

On 5/28/2024 at 3:37 PM, The Light said:

There are two raptures. The grain harvest is made up of barley and wheat, the spring and summers harvests

The fall fruit harvest is when the last trump is blown. It will be when the seed of the woman, the 12 tribes across the earth are raptured.

No, the Rapture means we are taken to Heaven, Jesus marries the Bride in the Father house, there is NO NEED of any other "Rapture" because the Kingdom Age is on this earth. The 5 Million Jews who repent will be the Fathers Bride. Israel is God's Bride. Jacob had two brides, the preferred in Rachel and the forced bride in Leah. Rev. 14 tells you the 5 million Jews (144,000) have the Fathers name on their foreheads, who or what did you think it meant? There will be a 1000 year kingdom age, so prey tell me why another Rapture is needed? Do you even think these things through brother? 

IMHO, you only look straight ahead once you come to an opinion = Blind-spots

On 5/28/2024 at 3:37 PM, The Light said:

Let just use common sense. Do you really think that the wheat harvest occurs at the same time the grapes are harvested?

On 5/27/2024 at 11:43 AM, Revelation Man said:

Yes, the Wheat and TARES grow together until the END.

On 5/28/2024 at 3:37 PM, The Light said:

This is just not true. Christ has already set up His kingdom on earth at the 7th trumpet. 

Revelation 11

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

No, that is just you not being able to put it all together, you can not grasp that the 2nd Woe is mentioned in Revelation 11 BUT ACTUALLY HAPPENS in Rev. 9, why is this SO HARD for you to grasp? Rev. 11 is a Parenthetical Citation Chapter.

John after the first 7 chapters comes to the DOTL/God's Wrath in Rev. 8, then God gives us the full wrath and plagues He alone brings in Rev. 8 (One Asteroid as shown in FOUR PHASES) and in Rev. 9 (Two Woes) and in finally in Rev. 16 the 3rd Woe which is made up of 7 Vials or bowls that are POURED OUT !! Now....where did the 3rd Woe come from? EUREKA.........we are told in Rev. 8:13 !!

Rev. 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

Well, that is pretty plain isn't it? The 7th Trump emits the 3rd Woe, the one the Two-witnesses stated will COME QUICKLY just before they die during the 2nd Woe, and we know the 2nd Woe sees them killed, that Woe which emitted from the 6th Trump. So, when the 7th Trump blows we are only told what the end results will bring, we are not given the DEATAILS because this chapter is ONLY about the 1260 day ministry of the Two-witnesses. Its a Parenthetical chapter, meaning we are being RETOLD what chapters 8, 9 and 16 ALREADY TOLD US, but in a different manner, so the Two-witnesses were ALIVE during Rev. 8 and 9 but dead by the time Rev. 16 happened !! 

We are TOLD what the 7th Trump will bring eventually, why eventually? Because the Two-witnesses are killed and this chapter is about the 1260 day ministry of the Two-witnesses, they were sent forth BEFORE the A.C. becomes the Beast at the 1260, in order to get Israel to repent, so the Jews would have 30 days in order to flee at the 1290, which comes  30 days before the 1260 Beast Conquering Event. The Two-witnesses are the 1335 Blessing. 

One day you will get it all, I'm afraid after the Rapture however.

On 5/28/2024 at 3:37 PM, The Light said:

This is again where you get out your sledgehammer to make things fit. The 7 vials happen in the same timeframe as the trumpets. This timeframe is the wrath of God.

No, this is where you have to play dodge ball because I destroyed all your points with facts. 

Edited May 30, 2024 by Revelation Man

[The Light]

23 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

No, Barley is the Bride of Christ, both dead and alive.

Barley and wheat are the grain harvest. The living do not precede the dead. The dead in Christ rise first. This is the barley harvest. Then those that remained will be caught up in the wheat harvest. Barley is the spring harvest. Wheat is the summer harvest, hence our warning that summer is near.  What do the Jews say after they have missed the summer wheat harvest?

Jeremiah 8

20 The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved.

These are not my opinions that part of Israel will be saved at the fall fruit harvest. This is all in the Word of God. It's past time for you to put down the sledgehammer and quit beating things into place. The Word of God tells us what will happen.

Israel will miss the summer wheat harvest. Part of them, the believing seed of the woman, the twelve tribes across the earth will be raptured on the Feast of trumpets at the Last Trump.

This is the reason there are 144,000 first fruits from the 12 tribes. Because the Jews miss the grain harvest and will be harvested in the fruit harvest.

 

23 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

 

So, the word Tribulation comes from a Greek word "Tribulum" which is a machine used for "Harvesting Wheat" so the very English word we use for tribulation comes from a Greek machine or Greek word for a machine that is used for "CRUSHING WHEAT" and Barley does not need to be crushed in order to be Harvested. The symbolism is sky high, yet you do not seem to grasp it.

1.) The Barley = The Bride of Christ who are in Christ Jesus now, the Bride are saved BY FAITH ALONE, we are ready for Heaven NOW !! We are ready to be Harvested NOW, both Jew & Greek/Gentiles.

2.) The Wheat = Israel they will GROW TOGETHER with the Wicked Tares until the VERY END [of the world as we know it under Satan]. They will be Harvested into God's barn (as humans living in the Kingdom Age) while the Gentile Martyrs or "Remnant Church" will rule with Christ on earth for 1000 years after they are Judged in Rev. 20:4 with Glorious bodies.

3.) The Wicked Grapes & Tares are the exact same people. The Tares remember are bound to be burned LATER (like in a 1000 years at the 2nd Resurrection). The Wicked Grapes are crushed, Jesus slays the Wicked at Armageddon. 

CASE CLOSED !!

You have closed the case long ago without understanding that the 144,000 are exactly what the word says they are. They are the first fruits of the fall fruit harvest. Israel misses the wheat harvest...........summer has ended, and they are not saved. They will be in the second harvest as the fig tree has two harvests.

23 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

 

 

[The Light]

On 5/29/2024 at 11:00 AM, Revelation Man said:

 

Yessssss and I stated as much, because the Vials come out of the 7th Trump.

The vials do not come out of the 7th trumpet. The wrath of God is OVER AT THE 7TH TRUMPET.

Revelation 11

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

I'm not sure why you are unable to understand that when the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord................Christ has set up His kingdom on the earth. Armageddon is over. The wrath of God is over. The vials of wrath are just a different view with different information of the same timeframe as the trumpets.

On 5/29/2024 at 11:00 AM, Revelation Man said:

No, Rapture means taken to Heaven, Jesus marries the Bride in the Father house, there is NO NEED of any other "Rapture" because the Kingdom Age is on this earth. The 5 Million Jews who repent will be the Fathers Bride. Israel is God's Bride. Jacob had two brides, the preferred in Rachel and the forced bride in Leah.

Right. Jacob had two brides, there will be two raptures. 

The Church in the grain harvest.

The twelve tribes across the earth, the seed of the woman Israel is the fruit harvest.

Only those in the nation of Israel that fled to the place of protection and unbelievers will be on the earth during God's wrath. Believers are not appointed to wrath

On 5/29/2024 at 11:00 AM, Revelation Man said:

 

Rev. 14 tells you the 5 million Jews (144,000) have the Fathers name on their foreheads, who did you think it meant? There will be a 1000 year kingdom age, so prey tell me why another Rapture us needed? Do you even think these things through brother? 

The 144,000 are not 5,000,000 Jews. Put away the sledgehammer of opinion. They are the first fruits of the second harvest. Exactly what the Word says they are. No guessing needed.

The fig tree has two harvests.

Hosea 9

10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

The fathers of the Jews were seen as the first fruits of the first harvest. But they served other gods so the Gentiles become the first harvest..........the grain harvest.

Israel is found as grapes in the wilderness. They will be in second harvest. The fruit harvest. 

After the Church is raptured, there has to be first fruits of the second harvest as the fathers of the Jews were not considered first fruits. This is why there are 144,000 first fruits.

We don't have to guess this stuff. It's in the Word of God.

 

On 5/29/2024 at 11:00 AM, Revelation Man said:

IMHO, you only look straight ahead once you come to an opinion = Blind-spots

What you call my opinion I have provided scripture to support everything I have said. I'm not guessing, I am only accepting what is written. Everything fits together perfectly if you just accept what is written and quit making illogical decisions.

On 5/29/2024 at 11:00 AM, Revelation Man said:

 

Well, that is pretty plain isn't it? The 7th Trump emits the 3rd Woe, the one the Two-witnesses stated will COME QUICKLY, after the 2nd Woe saw them killed, which emitted from the 6th Trump. So, when the 7th Trump blows we are only told what the end results will bring,

The results of the 7th trumpet are..........THE KINGDOMS OF THIS WORLD ARE BECOME THE KINGDOMS OF OUR LORD.

Christ has set up His kingdom on earth. Armageddon is over. The millennial kingdom is set up. The vials have already occurred. 

The events of Revelation 13 and 14 occur during Revelation 6. The events of Revelation 15 and 16 occur during the 7th seal. 

On 5/29/2024 at 11:00 AM, Revelation Man said:

 

we are not given the DEATAILS because this chapter is ONLY about the 1260 day ministry of the Two-witnesses. Its a Parenthetical chapter, meaning we are being RETOLD what chapters 8, 9 and 16 ALREADY TOLD US, but in a different manner, so the Two-witnesses were ALIVE during Rev. 8 and 9 but dead by the time Rev. 16 happened !! 

The two witnesses are raptured before the 7th trumpet. The end of Rev 16 occurs at the 7th trumpet.

The trumpets and vials occur in the 7th seal. It is the same timeframe which is the wrath of God.

On 5/29/2024 at 11:00 AM, Revelation Man said:

We are TOLD what they 7th Trump will bring eventually, why eventually? Because the Two-witnesses are killed and this chapter is about the 1260 day ministry of the Two-witnesses, they were sent forth BEFORE the A.C. becomes the Beast at the 1260, in order to get Israel to repent, so they would have 30 days to flee at the 1290, before the 1260 Beast Conquering Event. The Two-witnesses are the 1335 Blessing. 

One day you will get it all, I'm afraid after the Rapture however.

No, this is where you have to play dodge ball because I destroyed al your points with facts. 

Brother, you have destroyed nothing. No dodge ball needed. You gave your opinion. I produced scripture showing you are incorrect about Israel being wheat and not grapes. I produced scripture showing there are two harvests and why there is a need for first fruits. And the Word tells us who those 144,000 are. 

You need to start over and accept what is written. You opinion that the 144,000 is some kind of code for 5 million Jews does not agree with the Word of God.

Edited May 30, 2024 by The Light

[Revelation Man]

On 5/30/2024 at 10:28 AM, The Light said:

Barley and wheat are the grain harvest. The living do not precede the dead.

Good grief, its like talking into the air, I will not rehash a point I already defeated you on, I do not chew my cud twice. SMH

On 5/30/2024 at 10:28 AM, The Light said:

You have closed the case long ago without understanding that the 144,000 are exactly what the word says they are. They are the first fruits of the fall fruit harvest. Israel misses the wheat harvest...........summer has ended, and they are not saved. They will be in the second harvest as the fig tree has two harvests.

Just like the 10 Virgin Brides right They are only 10 females in the whole Church according to you then. When not called to prophecy, defer to those who are.

Not you...However, you would try to teach the Carpet man how to install carpet. When someone refuses to listen to those in the know, that is why after a bit I have to just quit replying to you for a while. It is what it is.

On 5/30/2024 at 11:11 AM, The Light said:

The vials do not come out of the 7th trumpet. The wrath of God is OVER AT THE 7TH TRUMPET.

Revelation 11

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

I'm not sure why you are unable to understand that when the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord................Christ has set up His kingdom on the earth. Armageddon is over. The wrath of God is over. The vials of wrath are just a different view with different information of the same timeframe as the trumpets.

Again, you can not figure out Rev. 11 is Parenthetical, what can I say? That is on you and no one else. Suffice it to say I am correct, you are not. No more cud chewing.

On 5/30/2024 at 11:11 AM, The Light said:

Right. Jacob had two brides, there will be two raptures. 

The Church in the grain harvest.

The twelve tribes across the earth, the seed of the woman Israel is the fruit harvest.

Only those in the nation of Israel that fled to the place of protection and unbelievers will be on the earth during God's wrath. Believers are not appointed to wrath

Brides of Christ get Married in Heaven, God Married Israel on this earth. 

On 5/30/2024 at 11:11 AM, The Light said:

The 144,000 are not 5,000,000 Jews. Put away the sledgehammer of opinion. They are the first fruits of the second harvest. Exactly what the Word says they are. No guessing needed.

The fig tree has two harvests.

You will see, you know it all, but you don't. And we know you will never listen. Again, it is what it is. I do not continue to waste time, once I tell you, its on you then, you will find out in Heaven you were in error on all these things.  I can not taunt you in heaven, but I will have a HUGE GRIN on my face, because I am SPOT ON.

On 5/30/2024 at 11:11 AM, The Light said:

What you call my opinion I have provided scripture to support everything I have said. I'm not guessing, I am only accepting what is written. Everything fits together perfectly if you just accept what is written and quit making illogical decisions.

Knowing scriptures and understanding them are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS !!

On 5/30/2024 at 11:11 AM, The Light said:

The results of the 7th trumpet are..........THE KINGDOMS OF THIS WORLD ARE BECOME THE KINGDOMS OF OUR LORD.

Christ has set up His kingdom on earth. Armageddon is over. The millennial kingdom is set up. The vials have already occurred. 

The events of Revelation 13 and 14 occur during Revelation 6. The events of Revelation 15 and 16 occur during the 7th seal. 

Rev. 16, the 7 Vials are the 3rd Woe and they come from the 7th Trump. You will have to debate this with someone else. To me its not worthy of any further discussion.

On 5/30/2024 at 11:11 AM, The Light said:

The two witnesses are raptured before the 7th trumpet. The end of Rev 16 occurs at the 7th trumpet.

The trumpets and vials occur in the 7th seal. It is the same timeframe which is the wrath of God.

The Seals DO NOTHING, they are Prophetic Utterances. The 7 Trumps/Thunders are God's TOTAL WRATH. The 7 Vials are a part of the 7th Trump. 

The Final THREE WOES come when the FINAL THREE TRUMPS SOUND !!

On 5/30/2024 at 11:11 AM, The Light said:

Brother, you have destroyed nothing. No dodge ball needed. You gave your opinion. I produced scripture showing you are incorrect about Israel being wheat and not grapes. I produced scripture showing there are two harvests and why there is a need for first fruits. And the Word tells us who those 144,000 are. 

You need to start over and accept what is written. You opinion that the 144,000 is some kind of code for 5 million Jews does not agree with the Word of God.

When not called unto Prophesy you should listen to men who have been called, like me for 40 years, but you of course will not. But you will find out 99.7 percent of these things I have spoken unto you are correct, and 99.9 percent of everything you put forth about Eschatology was in error. Find your calling my friend, it is not Prophesy, and do it well. 

Edited June 4, 2024 by Revelation Man

[The Light]

On 5/30/2024 at 2:21 PM, Revelation Man said:

Good grief, its like talking into the air, I will n0t rehash a point I already defeated you on, I do nit chew my cud twice. SMH

The scriptures tell us that Israel is grapes. I believe what is written. No opinion is needed. I'm not sure why you find it acceptable to overrule the Word.

On 5/30/2024 at 2:21 PM, Revelation Man said:

Just like the 10 Virgin Brides right They are only 10 females in the whole Church according to you then. When not called to prophecy, defer to tho0se who are.

The point is we don't need to figure out any code for who the 144,000 are. The Word tells us. Again, how is it you have so much trouble accepting what is written.

On 5/30/2024 at 2:21 PM, Revelation Man said:

 

 

Brides of Christ get Married in Heaven, God Married Israel on this earth. 

You will see, you know it all, but you don't. And we know you will never listen. Again, it is what it is. I do not continue to waste time, once I tell you, its n you then, you will find out in Heaven you were in error on all these things.  I can not taunt you in heaven, but I will have a HUGE GRIN on my face, because I am SPOT ON.

If you could ever provide actual scriptural proof about things I would be happy to listen. Until you accept what is written it's just one mistake leading to another.

On 5/30/2024 at 2:21 PM, Revelation Man said:

Knowing scriptures and understanding them are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS !!

Now we can agree.

On 5/30/2024 at 2:21 PM, Revelation Man said:

Rev. 16, the 7 Vials are the 3rd Woe and they come from the 7th Trump. You will have to debate this with someone else. To me its not worthy of any further discussion.

How is it that you are unable to understand that the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord at the 7th trumpet.

On 5/30/2024 at 2:21 PM, Revelation Man said:

The Seals DO NOTHING, they are Prophetic Utterances. The 7 Trumps/Thunders are God's TOTAL WRATH. The 7 Vials are a part of the 7th Trump. 

Where do you get this stuff? The 1st six seals are what Jesus tells us will happen in Matthew 24. The 7th seal is the wrath of God. How can you possibly claim that the seals do nothing?

On 5/30/2024 at 2:21 PM, Revelation Man said:

The Final THREE WOES come when the FINAL THREE TRUMPS SOUND !!

When not called unto Prophesy you should listen to men who have been for 40 years, but you of course will not.

Have you ever tried starting over and leaving your opinion out of the equation?

On 5/30/2024 at 2:21 PM, Revelation Man said:

 

But you will find out 99.7 percent of these things I have spoken unto you are correct, and 99.9 percent of everything you put forth about Eschatology was in error. Find your calling my friend, it is not Prophesy, and do it well. 

And yet I agree with the Word, and you bring in private interpretation. How does that make you right?

[The Light]

On 5/30/2024 at 2:21 PM, Revelation Man said:

Not you...However, you would try to teach the Carpet man how to install carpet. When someone refuses to listen to those in the know, that is why after a bit I have to just quote replying to you for a while. It is what it is.

 

Okay. You are correct. I cannot deny. It brings to mind something that happened when I was a teenager. It's proof that your contention is correct.

A friend of mine and I went hunting and we slid off a muddy road. It had been raining really, really hard and there was so much rain it was like we slid into a foot deep lake. We were stuck and had to call a for a tow. 

An older man arrived with the tow truck. He swung the tow boom toward the car and started walking down the muddy road with the cable. It was a long walk. He hooked the back of the car to the nearest corner and walked back to the truck. 

He started the winch and pulled the BRAND-NEW car through the foot and a half deep water as it would not be pulled back on the road. After 30 yards my friend could be heard yelling - Stop, Stop. Make him stop. Make him stop! The old man was ready to give up as the car would not be pulled back up on the road. I said wait minute. What if we swing your boom away from the car instead of toward it. And what if we hook up to the far side of the car frame instead of the near side.

The old man looks at me and says, "I've been doing this for thirty years and you're little more than a kid and you think that you can walk up here and tell me how to do my job?????????" After much debate I talked him into swinging the tow boom in the opposite direction away from the car. I told him I would get in the water and hook up the car. When I arrived, I told my friend what went down, and then preceded to hook up the car.

Arriving back to the car I told the guy to start the winch. We pulled the car right out, with ease. When my friend gets back to pay the bill, he greets the guy with this............"Do you realize you've been doing this wrong for 30 years." 

So you are correct. I would tell the carpet guy how to install carpet if he wasn't getting the job done providing a commonsense solution was at the ready. It doesn't matter how long you have been doing something if you are doing it wrong.

Edited June 5, 2024 by The Light

[JoeCanada]

Let's bring this back to the what the original post is all about. Here is a chart that compares Matthew and Revelation 19

The Second Coming
Matthew 24	Revelation 19
Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they shall see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other. Matt 24:29-31 Nevertheless I tell you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven. Matt 26:64 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. 1Thes 4:15-17 And to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, who rescues us from the wrath to come. 1Thes 1:10 ----------------------- So, please show how Revelation 19 is the same as Matt 24, 26 and 1Thes 4	And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and and wages war. His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many diadems; and He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself. He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called the Word of God, And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses.                 Rev 19:11-14 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice, saying to all the birds which fly in midheaven, “come, assemble for the great supper of God, so that you may eat the flesh of kings and the fleas of commanders and the flesh of mighty men and the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them and the flesh 0f all men, both free men and slaves, and small and great……. And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.                     Rev 19:17-19

Edited June 7, 2024 by JoeCanada

[JoeCanada]

Here is something else one should consider.

The main harvest (resurrection/rapture) in Revelation 14, Jesus is shown to be wearing a "golden crown".

Rev 14:14    "Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and sitting on the cloud was one like a son of man, having a golden crown on His head and a sharp sickle in His hand"

Now ..... 

Compare this to Revelation 19:11-12: ....... "And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war.

His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many diadems; and He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself."

Here, in Rev 19, Jesus is seen with many diadems on His head, and He is not harvesting the earth with a sharp sickle in His hand, He is waging war with a sword coming out of His mouth.

These are major differences one should consider. 

[Progressive Truth]

On 4/29/2024 at 1:51 PM, JoeCanada said:

Jesus coming on the clouds in Matthew 24 is the second coming - and Revelation 19's Jesus coming on a white horse is something else.

Joe, you go on to say, "As Scripture will show, these two events have nothing in common. Scripture will interpret Scripture by using shared words or shared events between two passages to show that the two things are the same. There are no shared words or symbols between the events in Matt 24 and Rev 19. If the two events were the same.... Matt 24 and Rev 19.... there would be similar symbols. But there is nothing about the two accounts that are  similar. They are completely and utterly different." 

If this were a valid hermeneutic, then there can be not exception too it. But such is not the case. In Daniel chapter two God revealed to the King of Babylon a sequence of kingdoms from his to God’s kingdom by means of a great image. Head of gold, breast and arms as silver, thighs of brass, legs of iron, feet part iron and clay, and ten toes.

In Dan. 7, Daniel receives a vision in which he sees four different beast coming up out of the sea. The forth which had ten horns, and another little horn appears out of them. 

Based on your hermeneutic, one would conclude that these two visions are not referring to the same kingdoms because the symbols are not the same, nor does the first vision reveal the little horn coming out of the ten horns of the forth kingdom. 

So, are you willing to say here, on this forum, based on your hermeneutic, that these two visions are not speaking of the same kingdoms? Or will you humbly confess that  you were using a invalid hermeneutic to arrive at your interpretation, therefore, it to is  invalid as well? 

The flowing portion of your post I do agree with: “You must always be willing to truly consider evidence that contradicts your beliefs, and admit the possibility that you may be wrong.

Intelligence isn't knowing everything, it's the ability to challenge everything you know.”