Truth and Logistics on Past, Present, and Future Middle Eastern events

[luigi]

Truth: In order to form the current state of Israel in 1948, millions of Palestinians had to be moved, and so, some were killed while others were evicted to various regions throughout the Middle East. This was similar to when Europeans came to North America and some of the indigenous peoples were killed, while others were evicted and put on Indian reservations. While today in North America the treaties for not removing Indian reservations by force remains mostly intact; in the land of Israel, however, the Palestinian reservations are now desired by the current people in power. In order to take these Palestinian reservations, such as those in Gaza and the West Bank, the Israeli government would need some sort of credible justifiable reason, so that they could kill and evict the millions of Palestinians residing on these reservations. Rather than form a two state nation, one comprised of Jews, and the other of Palestinians, Israel's Prime Minister, Netanyahu supported the militant Hamas faction who opposed the two state solution, and wanted Jews dead. As expected, the militant faction Hamas, would soon act on its hatred of Jews, and on the 50th anniversary of the 1973 war, came through a mostly unguarded perimeter of fence separating Gaza from Israel. Hamas, (the war loving Indians), killed, raped, and kidnapped many Israeli citizens. The justifiable means to invade Gaza was provided to the Netanyahu government. While the initial invasion of Gaza to root out the Hamas faction was approved by the vast majority of the worlds nations; it has since lost approval from most nations of the world. Antiwar/Antigenocide protests are now becoming commonplace on university campuses throughout the U.S., with many other nations also calling for an end to the hostilities in Gaza.

Logistics: To date, more than six months after invading Gaza (a city of 2.3 million people), the official death toll in Gaza is under 35,000. Even if Israel were capable to increase this death toll tenfold, it would still represent less than a half million people in a city of 2.3 million people. And what effect that would have with the other worlds nations who are already seeing Israel as a Pariah amongst the worlds nations, would only likely increase. In effect, logistically speaking, Israel has already lost in its endeavor to claim Gaza, and much less so the West Bank, comprised of nearly six million Palestinians.

As such, and in order to succeed in any future endeavor to claim the Indian reservations, the Israeli government will need an ally capable of killing a much greater number of these indigenous peoples. According to Isaiah 28 and Daniel 9 & 11, current Israel will soon ally itself (form a covenant) with one capable of accomplishing the level of desolation required.

Edited April 30, 2024 by luigi
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[Tristen]

31 minutes ago, luigi said:

Truth: In order to form the current state of Israel in 1948, millions of Palestinians had to be moved, and so, some were killed while others were evicted to various regions throughout the Middle East

This is not "truth".

When the Arab extremists responded to the declaration of statehood with terrorism, all peaceful Arabs were invited by the Jewish government to stay where they were.

There was no such thing as a "Palestinian" at the time. The "Palestinian" label was later adopted by the Arabs for purely political purposes - i.e. to give the false impression of indigeneity. In reality, the overwhelming majority of Arabs in Israel at the time migrated from the bankrupted Ottoman Empire in the late 1800s, or from Egypt in the 1920s. In the early 1800s, the land (called Palestine by the Romans) was mostly uninhabited.

 

40 minutes ago, luigi said:

This was similar to when Europeans came to North America and some of the indigenous peoples were killed, while others were evicted and put on Indian reservations.

This is a lie. Jews purchased abandoned land from the diminishing Ottoman Empire and cultivated it. Arabs then moved from the north to where there were opportunities. With a few exceptions, Jews and Arabs largely coexisted peacefully in the land for the following few decades.

The "colonial" narrative is antisemitic gaslighting. Only those unfamiliar with the facts would fall for such deception.

 

46 minutes ago, luigi said:

Rather than form a two state nation, one comprised of Jews, and the other of Palestinians, Israel's Prime Minister, Netanyahu supported the militant Hamas faction who opposed the two state solution, and wanted Jews dead.

Jews accepted the two-state solution offered by the United Nations in 1947 (General Assembly Resolution 181). Arabs rejected this plan in favor of terrorism.

Prior to this, Arabs unanimously rejected the Peel Commision partition of the land between Arabs and Jews (1937). In 1993, the Arabs rejected the offering of a separate Arab state in the Oslo Accords. In 1998, the Arabs again rejected an attempt to reestablish the Oslo principles at Wye River. In 2000, Arabs rejected an offer (by Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barack) to control 10% more land than was currently under Arab authority. In 2008, Ehud Olmert offered the Palestinian Authority near-total withdrawal from the West Bank, as well as the Old City part of Jerusalem. 

In all these instances, the Arabs rejected "a two state nation" in favor of intifada, or Jihad, or some other form of Holy war from this supposed "religion of peace". It is completely disingenuous (a.k.a. a demonstrable lie) to suggest that Israel have been the ones standing in the way of a "two state" solution.

In 2005, Israel forcefully removed its own people from Gaza in order to give the Arabs a mini state under their own authority. Instead of using the opportunity and billions in Aid to establish a thriving state, they used the incoming wealth to turn Gaza into a terror state against Israel.

 

1 hour ago, luigi said:

Hamas, (the war loving Indians), killed, raped, and kidnapped many Israeli citizens

Finally - something true.

 

1 hour ago, luigi said:

The justifiable means to invade Gaza was provided to the Netanyahu government

Yes - it is completely "justifiable".

 

1 hour ago, luigi said:

Antiwar/Antigenocide protests are now becoming commonplace on university campuses throughout the U.S., with many other nations also calling for an end to the hostilities in Gaza

Sadly lacking in these protests is the demand for the Gazans to return Jewish hostages. Thereby demonstrating the innate susceptibility of these protestors to evil lies.

1 John 5:19
We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.

 

 

[luigi]

3 hours ago, Tristen said:

This is not "truth".

When the Arab extremists responded to the declaration of statehood with terrorism, all peaceful Arabs were invited by the Jewish government to stay where they were.

There was no such thing as a "Palestinian" at the time. The "Palestinian" label was later adopted by the Arabs for purely political purposes - i.e. to give the false impression of indigeneity. In reality, the overwhelming majority of Arabs in Israel at the time migrated from the bankrupted Ottoman Empire in the late 1800s, or from Egypt in the 1920s. In the early 1800s, the land (called Palestine by the Romans) was mostly uninhabited.

 

This is a lie. Jews purchased abandoned land from the diminishing Ottoman Empire and cultivated it. Arabs then moved from the north to where there were opportunities. With a few exceptions, Jews and Arabs largely coexisted peacefully in the land for the following few decades.

The "colonial" narrative is antisemitic gaslighting. Only those unfamiliar with the facts would fall for such deception.

 

Jews accepted the two-state solution offered by the United Nations in 1947 (General Assembly Resolution 181). Arabs rejected this plan in favor of terrorism.

Prior to this, Arabs unanimously rejected the Peel Commision partition of the land between Arabs and Jews (1937). In 1993, the Arabs rejected the offering of a separate Arab state in the Oslo Accords. In 1998, the Arabs again rejected an attempt to reestablish the Oslo principles at Wye River. In 2000, Arabs rejected an offer (by Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barack) to control 10% more land than was currently under Arab authority. In 2008, Ehud Olmert offered the Palestinian Authority near-total withdrawal from the West Bank, as well as the Old City part of Jerusalem. 

In all these instances, the Arabs rejected "a two state nation" in favor of intifada, or Jihad, or some other form of Holy war from this supposed "religion of peace". It is completely disingenuous (a.k.a. a demonstrable lie) to suggest that Israel have been the ones standing in the way of a "two state" solution.

In 2005, Israel forcefully removed its own people from Gaza in order to give the Arabs a mini state under their own authority. Instead of using the opportunity and billions in Aid to establish a thriving state, they used the incoming wealth to turn Gaza into a terror state against Israel.

 

Finally - something true.

 

Yes - it is completely "justifiable".

 

Sadly lacking in these protests is the demand for the Gazans to return Jewish hostages. Thereby demonstrating the innate susceptibility of these protestors to evil lies.

1 John 5:19
We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.

 

 

Not only does your history of the formation of Israel in 1948 contradict the historical record, but your perspective also keeps everyone from seeing the Lords Word in its correct context, so that everyone may see how things will soon develop in the Middle East as depicted in Isaiah 28:18-20, with the covenant formation with many in Daniel 9:27, which results are seen in Daniel 11.

Isaiah 28:18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it. 19 From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report. 20 For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch himself on it: and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it.

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

[AdHoc]

5 hours ago, luigi said:

Not only does your history of the formation of Israel in 1948 contradict the historical record, but your perspective also keeps everyone from seeing the Lords Word in its correct context, so that everyone may see how things will soon develop in the Middle East as depicted in Isaiah 28:18-20, with the covenant formation with many in Daniel 9:27, which results are seen in Daniel 11.

Isaiah 28:18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it. 19 From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report. 20 For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch himself on it: and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it.

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

I think that you need more commentary to sell your thesis. For one, you can show why, where and when God authorized Israel to make Covenants with the heathen. Second, you can show Israel, which is under Law that says and eye for eye, can make peace Covenants when they have been attacked and the weak and children raped and killed. Contrariwise to your thesis, God decreed war "from generation to generation" on Amalek for doing this very things to Israel. And maybe it would strengthen your cause to explain why God wants foreigners not dwelling in the Land He gives to Israel.

I am aware that the exegesis of Daniel 9 is controversial, but the singular "HE" is a good place to start. Who is the singular "HE" which will "strengthen THE Covenant" with MANY (not all)" - especially a Covenant containing the daily oblation. Next, if "HE" is plural, not only has God made a grammatical error, but the implication s that it is "HE" that is in authority. Next, if God makes a prophecy that Israel should be in Covenant with the Gazans, is Israel greater than God so as to annul His prophecy? Finally, where in the Covenant with BOTH Abraham and with Moses does God show intention to share Canaan with heathen?

A lot needs to be explained.

[luigi]

1 hour ago, AdHoc said:

I think that you need more commentary to sell your thesis. For one, you can show why, where and when God authorized Israel to make Covenants with the heathen. Second, you can show Israel, which is under Law that says and eye for eye, can make peace Covenants when they have been attacked and the weak and children raped and killed. Contrariwise to your thesis, God decreed war "from generation to generation" on Amalek for doing this very things to Israel. And maybe it would strengthen your cause to explain why God wants foreigners not dwelling in the Land He gives to Israel.

I am aware that the exegesis of Daniel 9 is controversial, but the singular "HE" is a good place to start. Who is the singular "HE" which will "strengthen THE Covenant" with MANY (not all)" - especially a Covenant containing the daily oblation. Next, if "HE" is plural, not only has God made a grammatical error, but the implication s that it is "HE" that is in authority. Next, if God makes a prophecy that Israel should be in Covenant with the Gazans, is Israel greater than God so as to annul His prophecy? Finally, where in the Covenant with BOTH Abraham and with Moses does God show intention to share Canaan with heathen?

A lot needs to be explained.

Hi AdHoc,

Isaiah 28:18-20, indicates the current power in Israel forming a covenant with Hell and Death. As I explained in my original post, with circa less than 50,000 killed in Gaza so far in over half a year; even if the IDF were to kill ten times this figure; logistically they then appear incapable of completing their intended task of killing the 2.3 million residents of Gaza. Even less so in the West bank, with a population of circa six million Palestinians. As such, in order to attain these lands, the current administration in Israel realizing its incapacity in forcibly killing approximately 8.3 million Palestinians, would need an accomplice with the wherewithal to accomplish the level of desolation necessary.  Enter, Hell and Death, with whom the current unjust administration in Israel will form a covenant with in order to attain these Palestinian lands. AKA, the abomination of desolation. According to Isaiah 28:18-20, however, this allegiance will backfire, for by day and by night will aerial sorties going over the land of Israel, daily take the lives of Israeli citizens; with them having nowhere from their Northern to Southern border to rest, or from their Eastern to Western borders to take cover from the daily sorties.

Isaiah 28:18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it. 19 From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report. 20 For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch himself on it: and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it.

[Tristen]

18 hours ago, luigi said:

Not only does your history of the formation of Israel in 1948 contradict the historical record

Which of my claims pertaining to "the formation of Israel in 1948" do you think historically inaccurate? I'm happy to provide evidence supporting everything I wrote.

 

18 hours ago, luigi said:

but your perspective also keeps everyone from seeing the Lords Word in its correct context

I didn't address this part of your argument. However, if your argument is based on a demonstrably incorrect premise, your conclusions will be highly questionable.

 

10 hours ago, luigi said:

logistically they then appear incapable of completing their intended task of killing the 2.3 million residents of Gaza

This is a disgusting and unsupported slur - a demonic lie.

Israel has long had access to weapons of mass destruction (namely, nuclear weapons). Israel has therefore long had the capacity to exterminate/genocide the Arabs from Gaza and the West Bank. They have selected to not do that despite their military capacity because that is not Israel's "intended task".

 

[luigi]

37 minutes ago, Tristen said:

Which of my claims pertaining to "the formation of Israel in 1948" do you think historically inaccurate? I'm happy to provide evidence supporting everything I wrote.

 

I didn't address this part of your argument. However, if your argument is based on a demonstrably incorrect premise, your conclusions will be highly questionable.

 

This is a disgusting and unsupported slur - a demonic lie.

Israel has long had access to weapons of mass destruction (namely, nuclear weapons). Israel has therefore long had the capacity to exterminate/genocide the Arabs from Gaza and the West Bank. They have selected to not do that despite their military capacity because that is not Israel's "intended task".

 

Do your own research, and stop coming to me with lies, how the formation of Israel in 1948 did not come about by evicting the Palestinian peoples, commonly known as Nakba. Below is a Wikipedia site (one of thousands of sites) on the Nakba expulsion of Palestinians from what is now the nation of Israel.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_expulsion_and_flight

[tatwo]

14 minutes ago, luigi said:

Do your own research, and stop coming to me with lies

Luigi,

As you wish...friend as you wish...however...the evil deceptive spirit that brought the harshest of judgment upon Israel for the rejection of the Lord Yahshua Christ in the 1st century...the same which Paul noted in 1st Thessalonians 2 where he wrote..."God's wrath has come upon them (Jews) to the utmost."

The Lord Himself told ancient Israel...and Jerusalem "For the days will come upon you when your enemies will throw up a barricade against you, and surround you and hem you in on every side, and they will level you to the ground and your children within you, and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not recognize the time of your visitation." (Luk 19:43-44 NASB)

Clearly the Lord has delivered the most powerful judgment upon this people and their seed...and we know it is because of the "wickedness" that was in them. Though that people who were condemned by God and is long gone...that religious spirit is now stronger than it ever has been. This is the spirit that is behind the formation of zionism...a murderous, deceptive, ungodly form of governance that has the unmistakable characteristic of "kill...steal...destroy"...people like this one have been so distorted and perverted as to believe these are the attributes of a Holy and Righteous Royal Priest.

That is what you have stirred up here...something I mentioned to you in a post on another forum. The goal of this spirit is to drag you into a fight so that they get you to look and act like them...at least in their minds...it's a trick that can spring a trap...it is spiritual therefore invisible. It makes the Judaizers and law keepers feel like they have truth and power...they have neither. Vile contempt is not considered a "Truth nor a power" except in darkness.

You are right to shine the light...brightly...as you are attempting to do...I am simply reminding you to carefully proceed with this one...he is full of himself just like the Pharisee's who said..."we have no king but Caesar."  

Tatwo...:)

[luigi]

Without the acknowledging of truth about the current motives to annex Gaza and West Bank territories from the Palestinians residing there; understanding references in the Bible to these events will then remain dark. Likewise, without the acknowledging of truth; the formation of a covenant (Daniel 9:27), with a treacherous false ally in order to make this vision of coveting these lands come about (Daniel 11:14), will also remain dark. Instead, all who dismiss truth, will side with the lies/propaganda, as will those who side with death and hell (Isaiah 28:15).

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Daniel 11:14 And in those times there shall many stand up against the king of the south: also the robbers of thy people shall exalt themselves to establish the vision; but they shall fall.

Isaiah 28:15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:

[Neighbor]

On 4/30/2024 at 6:26 AM, luigi said:

While today in North America the treaties for not removing Indian reservations by force remains mostly intact; in the land of Israel, however, the Palestinian reservations are now desired by the current people in power

Hi, I think I find the basic premises  to be somewhat errant including the  comparable I have quoted. For there are some 52 Native American tribes that have lost their "status as nations".

Presidential Candidate Robert F. Kennedy has been fighting for the establishment of their treaty rights  by bringing lawsuits against the USA federal government for years; and if elected President  he will make it a priority  for the USA to honor those rights.

As to Palestinians, there are no Palestinians. The land grant rights of the Jews were established by God, the only such land grant ever issued, and that grant was issued long longlong  before 1948 or even 1920.