Revelation- 30 minutes

[Dave Watchman]

On 4/30/2024 at 10:26 AM, Charlie744 said:

In Revelation there is a period of 30 minutes of silence. 

I thought you were a Daniel guy. Find the 30 minutes in Daniel and you might be finding it in Revelation too.

On 4/30/2024 at 10:26 AM, Charlie744 said:

What is this all about?

That's what I'm asking too. I'm just thinking about it now, trying to figure it out while typing.

There's another forum where a guy's doing a thread about this. He thinks the 30 minutes are 3.5 years, or 1290 days.  He's using Enoch and "forthwith I saw how the shepherds pastured for twelve hours, and behold three of those sheep turned back and came and entered and began to build up all that had fallen down of that house; but the wild boars tried to hinder them, but they were not able.” - 1 Enoch 5:108

He thinks: "The twelve hours in Enoch’s parable equates to the seventy years of exile between Nebuchadnezzar and Cyrus the Great. If twelve hours equals seventy years, then silence in heaven for about half an hour equates to about three years."

It's interesting but I doubt it's just that. He got close to the timing I think it is. I wish he would come and post over here, because I can't post over there.

I think I know what you might be thinking in the other post:

On 5/1/2024 at 11:14 AM, Charlie744 said:

any relationship between the 30 minutes of silence that will take place in heaven at that time with any of the steps / events that are found on earth during the annual Day of Atonement (Yom Kipper)?

Is there any kind of pause the high priest might have to do before or after he enters the Holy of Holies?

Might be a reference to the length of time it took for the High Priest to take the fire from the bronze altar that is in the outer court of the Temple and then to enter the Holy Place and to use the altar fire to burn incense on the golden altar in front of the Holy of Holies where the Ark of the Covenant had been kept and then to return to where the people were assembled to give them the priestly blessing. The whole procedure took about 30 minutes.

"Slowly the incensing priest and his assistants ascended the steps to the Holy Place, preceded by the two priests who had formerly dressed the altar and the candlestick, and who now removed the vessels they had left behind, and, worshipping, withdrew. Next, one of the assistants reverently spread the coals on the golden altar; the other arranged the incense; and then the chief officiating priest was left alone within the Holy Place, to await the signal of the president before burning the incense. It was probably while thus expectant that the angel Gabriel appeared to Zacharias (Luke 1:8-11). As the president gave the word of command, which marked that 'the time of incense had come,' 'the whole multitude of people without' withdrew from the inner court, and fell down before the Lord, spreading their hands in silent prayer. It is this most solemn period, when throughout the vast Temple buildings deep silence rested on the worshipping multitude, while within the sanctuary itself the priest laid the incense on the golden altar, and the cloud of 'odours' (5:8) rose up before the Lord, which serves as the image of heavenly things in this description." - Alfred Edersheim, The Temple: Its Ministry and Services as they were at the time of Jesus, page 167.

It's interesting, but I don't think that's all it is. But if this is it, I could make a case for the 30 minutes to be happening now.

The silence in Revelation's heaven always reminded me of Zechariah 2:13, and Zephaniah 1:7. Interesting they both start with the last letter of our English alphabet.

"Be silent before the Lord GOD! For the day of the LORD is near; the LORD has prepared a sacrifice and consecrated his guests.

"Be silent, all flesh, before the LORD, for he has roused himself from his holy dwelling.

But it's addressing "all flesh". In Revelation, the silence is coming from heaven. The Prophetic Voice is silenced, like a pause or freeze frame suspended animation. Like the Two Witnesses laying dead silent in the streets of the Great City for 3.5 days, the silence is broken then by a loud voice coming from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they ascended to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies saw them.

Go to the main prophecy subject page here and type hora in the search area and hit enter. There's a bunch of smart guys here.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/search/?q=hora&quick=1&type=forums_topic&nodes=11

"The word "hour" comes from the Greek word "hora." The  "Horae" were the three mythological goddesses of the seasons— spring, summer and winter. This was before autumn was recognized  as a season. Their names were Eunomia, Dike and Eirene, mean- ing Good Order, Justice and Peace, guardians of the orderly suc- cession of the processes of nature.
"Hora" therefore meant "season" in a very general sense, almost  synonymous with "a time." It was simply a measurable lapse of  time with a beginning and an end, but with no uniform length of  duration.

That ancient Greek meaning of the word persisted into  New Testament times even after "hora" came to be used also to  mean a division of the day. Consequently, when the translators  came across the word "hora," they found it very difficult to deter- mine what English word to use. Several times they translated "hora" as "day" ; several other  times they rendered it "season," and they were correct in so doing.  But in some verses where "hora" should have been translated  "moment" or "instant," they rendered it "hour."

Even in the many places in the New Testament where the word  "hora" is used to indicate a period of time somewhat corresponding  to our modern hour, it should be understood by the Bible reader  that the New Testament hour varied greatly in length." - Time in Bible Times : Potter, C. F.

https://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1941JRASC..35..163P

So hour is simply a measurable lapse of time with a beginning point, and an ending point. It could even point to a "seven" from Daniel. A heptad, or about the space of half a heptad. About the space of half of a designated duration of time.

This is our finest hour.

 

[Charlie744]

13 hours ago, Dave Watchman said:

I thought you were a Daniel guy. Find the 30 minutes in Daniel and you might be finding it in Revelation too.

That's what I'm asking too. I'm just thinking about it now, trying to figure it out while typing.

There's another forum where a guy's doing a thread about this. He thinks the 30 minutes are 3.5 years, or 1290 days.  He's using Enoch and "forthwith I saw how the shepherds pastured for twelve hours, and behold three of those sheep turned back and came and entered and began to build up all that had fallen down of that house; but the wild boars tried to hinder them, but they were not able.” - 1 Enoch 5:108

He thinks: "The twelve hours in Enoch’s parable equates to the seventy years of exile between Nebuchadnezzar and Cyrus the Great. If twelve hours equals seventy years, then silence in heaven for about half an hour equates to about three years."

It's interesting but I doubt it's just that. He got close to the timing I think it is. I wish he would come and post over here, because I can't post over there.

I think I know what you might be thinking in the other post:

Might be a reference to the length of time it took for the High Priest to take the fire from the bronze altar that is in the outer court of the Temple and then to enter the Holy Place and to use the altar fire to burn incense on the golden altar in front of the Holy of Holies where the Ark of the Covenant had been kept and then to return to where the people were assembled to give them the priestly blessing. The whole procedure took about 30 minutes.

"Slowly the incensing priest and his assistants ascended the steps to the Holy Place, preceded by the two priests who had formerly dressed the altar and the candlestick, and who now removed the vessels they had left behind, and, worshipping, withdrew. Next, one of the assistants reverently spread the coals on the golden altar; the other arranged the incense; and then the chief officiating priest was left alone within the Holy Place, to await the signal of the president before burning the incense. It was probably while thus expectant that the angel Gabriel appeared to Zacharias (Luke 1:8-11). As the president gave the word of command, which marked that 'the time of incense had come,' 'the whole multitude of people without' withdrew from the inner court, and fell down before the Lord, spreading their hands in silent prayer. It is this most solemn period, when throughout the vast Temple buildings deep silence rested on the worshipping multitude, while within the sanctuary itself the priest laid the incense on the golden altar, and the cloud of 'odours' (5:8) rose up before the Lord, which serves as the image of heavenly things in this description." - Alfred Edersheim, The Temple: Its Ministry and Services as they were at the time of Jesus, page 167.

It's interesting, but I don't think that's all it is. But if this is it, I could make a case for the 30 minutes to be happening now.

The silence in Revelation's heaven always reminded me of Zechariah 2:13, and Zephaniah 1:7. Interesting they both start with the last letter of our English alphabet.

"Be silent before the Lord GOD! For the day of the LORD is near; the LORD has prepared a sacrifice and consecrated his guests.

"Be silent, all flesh, before the LORD, for he has roused himself from his holy dwelling.

But it's addressing "all flesh". In Revelation, the silence is coming from heaven. The Prophetic Voice is silenced, like a pause or freeze frame suspended animation. Like the Two Witnesses laying dead silent in the streets of the Great City for 3.5 days, the silence is broken then by a loud voice coming from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they ascended to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies saw them.

Go to the main prophecy subject page here and type hora in the search area and hit enter. There's a bunch of smart guys here.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/search/?q=hora&quick=1&type=forums_topic&nodes=11

"The word "hour" comes from the Greek word "hora." The  "Horae" were the three mythological goddesses of the seasons— spring, summer and winter. This was before autumn was recognized  as a season. Their names were Eunomia, Dike and Eirene, mean- ing Good Order, Justice and Peace, guardians of the orderly suc- cession of the processes of nature.
"Hora" therefore meant "season" in a very general sense, almost  synonymous with "a time." It was simply a measurable lapse of  time with a beginning and an end, but with no uniform length of  duration.

That ancient Greek meaning of the word persisted into  New Testament times even after "hora" came to be used also to  mean a division of the day. Consequently, when the translators  came across the word "hora," they found it very difficult to deter- mine what English word to use. Several times they translated "hora" as "day" ; several other  times they rendered it "season," and they were correct in so doing.  But in some verses where "hora" should have been translated  "moment" or "instant," they rendered it "hour."

Even in the many places in the New Testament where the word  "hora" is used to indicate a period of time somewhat corresponding  to our modern hour, it should be understood by the Bible reader  that the New Testament hour varied greatly in length." - Time in Bible Times : Potter, C. F.

https://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1941JRASC..35..163P

So hour is simply a measurable lapse of time with a beginning point, and an ending point. It could even point to a "seven" from Daniel. A heptad, or about the space of half a heptad. About the space of half of a designated duration of time.

This is our finest hour.

 

First, I am a Daniel guy because it is the only book I have ever studied. But I have heard that Daniel is necessary to understand Revelation. 
 

Regarding the 30 minutes in Daniel- I can’t seem to find a time element that speaks to this… 

It must / will be found in a OT book but I have not yet found it.  But I decided to first look at the Sanctuary and the actions within it to see if there is / was a purposeful silent period within the atonement ritual. 
 

But it seems you have SO much information at your fingertips! You have offered more than a few thoughts on this… neat stuff! 
 

So, the silence in heaven— is that an event that is necessary to take place in heaven or on earth? 
 

Is it to occur to show ALL those in the heavenly realm what will take place there .. does it reveal what God will now do to satan … ?

Thanks for your thoughts!! 
Charlie
 

 

[Revelation Man]

19 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

Regarding the 30 minutes in Daniel- I can’t seem to find a time element that speaks to this… 

It must / will be found in a OT book but I have not yet found it.  But I decided to first look at the Sanctuary and the actions within it to see if there is / was a purposeful silent period within the atonement ritual. 

That is because the Judgments are not a prominent part of Daniel, its only spoken of in terms like this.

Dan. 11:45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

Dn. 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Dan. 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

Dan. 7:26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

I stated what it meant earlier, and how that matched up with God the Father having to flood the whole world. It repented him. 

Edited May 4, 2024 by Revelation Man

[Charlie744]

2 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

That is because the Judgments are not a prominent part of Daniel, its only spoken of in terms like this.

Dan. 11:45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

Dn. 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Dan. 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

Dan. 7:26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

I stated what it meant earlier, and how that matched up with God the Father having to flood the whole world. It repented him. 

Do you see a possible reference in any book of the OT that might speak to a 30 minute pause or a short delay for a specific reason.. thanks, Charlie 

[Dennis1209]

On 4/30/2024 at 9:26 AM, Charlie744 said:

In Revelation there is a period of 30 minutes of silence. 
 

What is this all about?

There are at least five views on this 30-minute silence. To briefly summarize and condense the majority view:

The dramatic pause is “to symbolize the awe and dread with which the heavenly hosts await the events about to happen.^[1]

 

---

^[1] Patterson, Paige. Revelation. Edited by E. Ray Clendenen, vol. 39, B&H, 2012, p. 206.

[Charlie744]

8 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

There are at least five views on this 30-minute silence. To briefly summarize and condense the majority view:

The dramatic pause is “to symbolize the awe and dread with which the heavenly hosts await the events about to happen.^[1]

 

---

^[1] Patterson, Paige. Revelation. Edited by E. Ray Clendenen, vol. 39, B&H, 2012, p. 206.

Thanks, but do any of the 5 reference verses in the OT?

So much of Revelation can be found in the OT… 

[Dennis1209]

7 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

Thanks, but do any of the 5 reference verses in the OT?

So much of Revelation can be found in the OT… 

The book of Revelation chains, cites, or alludes to almost every book in the Bible, by far more than any other book in the Canon.

For Revelation 8:1, the Thompson Chain Bible has no OT references or allusions. The New Treasury of Scriptural Knowledge lists Zec. 2:13 and Hab. 2:20 as potential allusions or illustrations. It is interesting to note that both illusions are the last verse in the chapter.

The silence following the opening of the seventh seal in Revelation 8:1 signifies the final judgment of the world, drawing on various Old Testament and Jewish traditions where silence is linked to divine judgment. The temple imagery in Habakkuk, Zechariah, and Zephaniah emphasizes the cosmic eschatological expectations of the writers. The concept of silence before significant events, such as the end of history and judgment, is highlighted in different texts like Genesis, Exodus, and Wisdom. The duration of "about a half hour" in Revelation 8:1 symbolizes the suddenness and unexpectedness of the decreed judgment, akin to the reaction of Daniel in the Book of Daniel. Overall, the silence in Revelation 8:1 conveys the awe and anticipation surrounding the impending divine judgment.¹

¹Commentary on the New Testament Use of the Old Testament

[Charlie744]

45 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

The book of Revelation chains, cites, or alludes to almost every book in the Bible, by far more than any other book in the Canon.

For Revelation 8:1, the Thompson Chain Bible has no OT references or allusions. The New Treasury of Scriptural Knowledge lists Zec. 2:13 and Hab. 2:20 as potential allusions or illustrations. It is interesting to note that both illusions are the last verse in the chapter.

The silence following the opening of the seventh seal in Revelation 8:1 signifies the final judgment of the world, drawing on various Old Testament and Jewish traditions where silence is linked to divine judgment. The temple imagery in Habakkuk, Zechariah, and Zephaniah emphasizes the cosmic eschatological expectations of the writers. The concept of silence before significant events, such as the end of history and judgment, is highlighted in different texts like Genesis, Exodus, and Wisdom. The duration of "about a half hour" in Revelation 8:1 symbolizes the suddenness and unexpectedness of the decreed judgment, akin to the reaction of Daniel in the Book of Daniel. Overall, the silence in Revelation 8:1 conveys the awe and anticipation surrounding the impending divine judgment.¹

¹Commentary on the New Testament Use of the Old Testament

Very nice and thank you! The only time element I am attempting to compare to the 30 minutes of silence (so far) is the important phrase in Daniel, “within the hour.”

Of course, this is used to convey the sureness and quickness of God’s decision that He made. 
 

Here we have a shorter time element that does seem to convey a shorter time of “terrible sadness,” but it must take place and God is, unfortunately, going to do what He must do and He is not going to delay this terrible action and allow such  sadness to go on more than it has to… 

This is indeed a decision He wish He did not have to make (we have made this necessary for Him to make). 
 

It is an interesting concept that God places at the time before He takes action… It does seem to picture just how sad, unbelievable what will have to take place by the Lord against His creation. He has been sooo forgiving over the thousands of years and paid such a price for His people that “this next action” is almost too much to consider (true wrath) by God. This is something no none in the heavenly realm had or could imagine to take place. 

 

[Dennis1209]

42 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

Very nice and thank you! The only time element I am attempting to compare to the 30 minutes of silence (so far) is the important phrase in Daniel, “within the hour.”

Of course, this is used to convey the sureness and quickness of God’s decision that He made. 
 

Here we have a shorter time element that does seem to convey a shorter time of “terrible sadness,” but it must take place and God is, unfortunately, going to do what He must do and He is not going to delay this terrible action and allow such  sadness to go on more than it has to… 

This is indeed a decision He wish He did not have to make (we have made this necessary for Him to make). 
 

It is an interesting concept that God places at the time before He takes action… It does seem to picture just how sad, unbelievable what will have to take place by the Lord against His creation. He has been sooo forgiving over the thousands of years and paid such a price for His people that “this next action” is almost too much to consider (true wrath) by God. This is something no none in the heavenly realm had or could imagine to take place. 

 

In my mind, Heaven is a constantly bustling place. I view the space of half an hour of silence as unprecedented. The magnitude never seen before in history and never again must elicit shock and awe for what is about to occur. The preparation and execution elicit silence.

I once jokingly commented Revelation 8:1 meant:

It is a proof text that men will be Raptured 30 minutes before women. That comment was irreverent and made light of the most horrific events mankind has ever or will experience.

[Dave Watchman]

On 5/3/2024 at 11:39 PM, Charlie744 said:

First, I am a Daniel guy because it is the only book I have ever studied. But I have heard that Daniel is necessary to understand Revelation. 

I knew it. I was just joking around.

On 5/3/2024 at 11:39 PM, Charlie744 said:

Regarding the 30 minutes in Daniel- I can’t seem to find a time element that speaks to this… 

It must / will be found in a OT book but I have not yet found it.  But I decided to first look at the Sanctuary and the actions within it to see if there is / was a purposeful silent period within the atonement ritual. 

Well if it was there, I bet you would have found it. I was being a smart alec when I said find it in Daniel. I don't think it's that easy because the NT is based on a different language.

"The word "hour" does not occur in the Old Testament until we  come to the Book of Daniel, one of the last books written, and the  only reason we find it in Daniel is because of a poor translation.  The ancient Jews never thought in terms of hours. In the five  places in Daniel where our Bibles have the word "hour," the  Aramaic word so translated is "shaah," which means literally  "look" or "glance" and should have been rendered "moment" or  "in the twinkling of an eye."

"For instance, in the King James version, Daniel 3 : 6 reads:  "And whoso falleth not down and worshippeth shall the same hour  be cast into the midst of a burning fiery furnace." In Dr. Moffatt's  new translation, in place of "the same hour," the word "instantly"  is correctly used. - Time in Bible Times, Potter, C. F. Page 164.

https://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-iarticle_query?bibcode=1941JRASC..35..163P&db_key=AST&page_ind=1&data_type=GIF&type=SCREEN_VIEW&classic=YES

I have other reasons to suspect it's a veiled reference to another of the Prophetic Time periods found in Daniel and Revelation:

1. Time, times and half a time (saints persecuted – Daniel 7:25)
2. 2,300 evenings and mornings (until temple restored – Daniel 8:14)
3. 70 weeks (determined upon the Jews, Messiah crucified – Daniel 9:24,25)
4. Time, times and half a time (when completed, power of the holy people broken – Daniel 12:7)
5. 1,290 days (from the end of the daily to the setting up of the abomination – Daniel 12:11)
6. 1,335 days (blessed is the one who waits for and reaches this day – Daniel 12:12)
7. Half hour of silence (at the opening of the 7th seal – Revelation 8:1)
8. 5 months (length of torture upon those not having the seal of God – Revelation 9:5)
9. Hour, day, month and year (punctiliar event when war begins – Revelation 9:15)
10. 42 months (Gentiles trample holy city – Revelation 11:2)
11. 1,260 days (Two Witnesses empowered for this length of time – Revelation 11:3)
12. 3.5 days (bodies of Two Witnesses lie in the street – Revelation 11:11)
13. 1,260 days (woman fled into the desert – Revelation 12:6)
14. Time, times and half a time (woman fled into the desert – Revelation 12:14)
15. 42 months ( beast was allowed to exercise authority – Revelation 13:5)
16. One hour (ten kings join with beast – Revelation 17:12)
17. One day, one hour (Babylon’s destruction begins – Revelation 18:8,19)
18. 1,000 years (Satan in the abyss – Revelation 20:2)

We need to really review the various uses of the Greek "hora".

https://biblehub.com/greek/5610.htm

It could be a season, a designated period of time, a divinely pre-set time-period; a limited period to accomplish the Lord's specific purpose, i.e. "the hour" in which specific characteristics prevail exactly like that for a limited time, or, based on the context, the final hour of one's life.

And like how Ezekiel lay on his side 40 days, each day for a year.  He was silent for those 40 days after the Crucifixion until the siege of Jerusalem, when the silence was broken. Heaven, the Prophetic voice spoke: 

"Turn your face toward the siege of Jerusalem and with bared arm prophesy against her.

The one I have in mind now is in the midst of the "week", the middle of the week. That's an example where a designated space of time is already split in half for us. About the space of half a heptad.

On 5/3/2024 at 11:39 PM, Charlie744 said:

But it seems you have SO much information at your fingertips! You have offered more than a few thoughts on this… neat stuff! 

Thanks Charlie.

On 5/3/2024 at 11:39 PM, Charlie744 said:

So, the silence in heaven— is that an event that is necessary to take place in heaven or on earth? 
 

Is it to occur to show ALL those in the heavenly realm what will take place there .. does it reveal what God will now do to satan … ?

Both I think. Like how the Two Witnesses lay dead silent in the street for 3.5 days. The Prophetic Voice goes silent.

The angels and the elders already know what's happening. I'm afraid there's a big reason for it. The seventh seal is serious. And, unlike some of the members, I don't think those who dwell in heaven are too worried, or apprehensive about witnessing the wicked being punished. The time has come to destroy the destroyers of the earth. Remember the vials: 

"Just are you, O Holy One, who is and who was,
for you brought these judgments.
For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets,
and you have given them blood to drink.
It is what they deserve!”

And I heard the altar saying,

“Yes, Lord God the Almighty,
true and just are your judgments!”

On 5/3/2024 at 11:39 PM, Charlie744 said:

Thanks for your thoughts!! 
Charlie

Yes thank you as well Charlie for the thread.

That Day of Atonement idea looks big to me. Big. I didn't think of it before. It gave me a new path to investigate. There's a guy, C.F. Lovett. The Rock Island Book guy. Remember the Berisheet prophecy video dissecting the first verse of Genesis? Declaring the end from the beginning?

That guy has a bunch of videos, he makes me nervous. The ones that have 2024 in the title. He thinks the 70th week begins on the Day of Atonement this year. You and I both know the 70th week was from 27AD to 34AD, but there might be more than one way to calculate a heptad, to count a "seven". Some think we're in another count of the "sevens' right now.

Anyway, if you're a video guy, you can search this title on you t u b e:

2024: Mystery of the 4th Day on the LORD'S 1000 Years for a Day Calendar.

Take care Charlie.

 

Edited May 5, 2024 by Dave Watchman