Justice at the judgement

[Desopixi Seilynam]

3 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

Paul's answer to the jailer who asked him what he MUST DO to be saved was to believe in the Lord (Deity) Jesus (humanity) Christ (Messiah-Savior).

We've had all this discussion before.

By believe on the Lord Jesus Christ in Acts 16 it is clear that they meant
believe the teachings of Jesus, because the passage goes on to tell us
that "they told him all the word of the Lord, and to his household,
and they baptized them"

What Paul and the apostles did is exactly what Jesus told them to do.
Teach people His teachings and baptize them; Matthew 28:19-20.

You want to insist that Jesus said:
Go ye into all the world and tell people I died for them
and am their savior.
But Jesus said; Go ye into all the world and teach all nations...
teaching them to observe whatsoever I have commanded you.

Matthew 28:19-20

The good news is the full message that Jesus preached,
the enemy would have us ignore or downplay the message that Jesus preached.

 

[Desopixi Seilynam]

20 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

Read Matt 7:21-23.  These people thought their works would get them Into the kingdom.  They were sadly mistaken.  

What?

Not everyone that says to me Lord Lord shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, but he that DOES the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord Lord,
have we not prophesied in your name?
And in thy name have cast out devils?
And in thy name done many miracles?

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you:
depart from me you who work LAWLESSNESS.

THEREFORE, whoever hears these sayings of mine,
and does them, shall be likened unto a wise man..... 
[ John 5:24  John 10:27 ]
Matthew 7:21-24

Jesus is talking about actually putting His teachings into practice.
Those who get into heaven will be those who actually heeded His teachings, that is what is being said in Matthew 7:21-28.

The will of the Father is that we obey the Son:
Deuteronomy 18:18-19, Acts 3:22-23.

 2 John 1:9-11, 1 Corinthians 16:22, Revelation 22:14-15.

Edited June 10, 2024 by Desopixi Seilynam

[FreeGrace]

1 hour ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

  FreeGrace said:

Paul's answer to the jailer who asked him what he MUST DO to be saved was to believe in the Lord (Deity) Jesus (humanity) Christ (Messiah-Savior).

We've had all this discussion before.

Yes, and I'm surprised that you are still resisting the truth.

1 hour ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

By believe on the Lord Jesus Christ in Acts 16 it is clear that they meant
believe the teachings of Jesus, because the passage goes on to tell us
that "they told him all the word of the Lord, and to his household,
and they baptized them"

What Paul and company did was explain exactly WHO Jesus is, WHAT He did on the cross for them (finished work) and HOW to be saved (believe in all that).

Your answer is way too vague to be of any benefit.  "the teachings" covers a lot of ground, much of which is NOT salvific.  

1 hour ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

What Paul and the apostles did is exactly what Jesus told them to do.
Teach people His teachings and baptize them; Matthew 28:19-20.

Why did you not note v.19?  "make disciples".  That means evangelize people that will result in them becoming believers.  AND THEN v.20, "teaching them what He taught the apostles".

1 hour ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

You want to insist that Jesus said:  Go ye into all the world and tell people I died for them and am their savior.  But Jesus said; Go ye into all the world and teach all nations..teaching them to observe whatsoever I have commanded you.

And what Jesus taught His "eleven" was that "no one comes to the Father EXCEPT through Me" in John 6:1 and 6.

1 hour ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

Matthew 28:19-20

The good news is the full message that Jesus preached,
the enemy would have us ignore or downplay the message that Jesus preached.

 

[FreeGrace]

1 hour ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

FreeGrace said:

Read Matt 7:21-23.  These people thought their works would get them Into the kingdom.  They were sadly mistaken. 

What?

I'm not surprised.  <sigh>

1 hour ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

Not everyone that says to me Lord Lord shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, but he that DOES the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord Lord,
have we not prophesied in your name?
And in thy name have cast out devils?
And in thy name done many miracles?

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you:
depart from me you who work LAWLESSNESS.

THEREFORE, whoever hears these sayings of mine,
and does them, shall be likened unto a wise man..... 
[ John 5:24  John 10:27 ]
Matthew 7:21-24in

Jesus is talking about actually putting His teachings into practice.

Not at all.  Jesus was telling the people about the crowd who will be kneeling at the Great White Judgment of Rev 20.  "in that day" in v.21 is a reference to Judgment Day for the unsaved.

Just consider what that crowd was basing their entrance into the kingdom on:  their own works, deeds.  There is NO mention of faith Jesus Christ.  They were trusting in their own efforts.

1 hour ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

Those who get into heaven will be those who actually heeded His teachings, that is what is being said in Matthew 7:21-28.

That is not true!!  He condemned them for the ABSENCE of faith in him.

1 hour ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

The will of the Father is that we obey the Son:
Deuteronomy 18:18-19, Acts 3:22-23.

OK, now read John 14:1 and 6.  

1 hour ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

 2 John 1:9-11, 1 Corinthians 16:22, Revelation 22:14-15.

Why you persist in thinking that anything you can do will save you is beyond me.

I've given you very clear verses and yet you keep rejecting them.  

Unless you have ever put your full trust in Christ alone and what He did on the cross for YOU and believe that He will save those who trust in His Work on the cross, you are NOT saved.

If anyone adds ANY work of their own, He will NOT save them.

Your basic problem is that you don't either believe or understand Eph 2:8.

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith —and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—

Salvation is NOT from yourself.  It is a gift of God.  Received through faith.

Please address eph 2:8 and tell me what you think it means.

[Mr. M]

56 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

Not at all.  Jesus was telling the people about the crowd who will be kneeling at the Great White Judgment of Rev 20.  "in that day" in v.21 is a reference to Judgment Day for the unsaved.

Just consider what that crowd was basing their entrance into the kingdom on:  their own works, deeds.  There is NO mention of faith Jesus Christ.  They were trusting in their own efforts.

Please forgive the intrusion, but this makes me wonder

what He meant by "in Your Name"?

22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’

[FreeGrace]

8 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

FreeGrace said:

Not at all.  Jesus was telling the people about the crowd who will be kneeling at the Great White Judgment of Rev 20.  "in that day" in v.21 is a reference to Judgment Day for the unsaved.

Just consider what that crowd was basing their entrance into the kingdom on:  their own works, deeds.  There is NO mention of faith Jesus Christ.  They were trusting in their own efforts.

Please forgive the intrusion, but this makes me wonder

what He meant by "in Your Name"?

22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’

Do you really NOT read what I post?  Did you not see what the crowd was appealing to for entering the kingdom?  Their own works.

And Jesus was only quoting what they were saying.  They were religious unbelievers.  They claimed they did miracles "in His name".  So what?  Religious people are able to lie.  

They were trying to base their intranace into the kingdom on their WORKS, just as you seem to be doing.

There are a lot of unbelievers who "name the name of Jesus" but have no relationship with Him".  Like the Mormons and the RCC.  Both have a works salvation kind of theology.  

[NConly]

 

Help understand these verses, please.

Gen 2

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Edited June 10, 2024 by NConly
add

[Mr. M]

29 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

Do you really NOT read what I post

Yes, that is what I was responding to...

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

There is NO mention of faith Jesus Christ

Are you going to respond to what I asked?

57 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

what He meant by "in Your Name"?

I understand they thought their works were

good enough. Is claiming you have faith in that name

sufficient, by quoting Ephesians 2:8?

10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

James 4:17 Therefore, to him who knows to do good

and does not do it, to him it is sin.

Herein lies the error. Jesus died for the sins of the flesh, not of the spirit.

They claimed to have done things in His Name, but were not of the Spirit.

Matthew 25:45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’

Not for me, or in My Name, but to me!

This is what the Spirit means by "neglecting so great a Salvation".

What does it mean to be blameless, or without fault? 

Does this pertain to the flesh, or the Spirit?

Is a half-hearted Christian a sinner of the flesh, or Spirit?

Psalm 119:34 Give me understanding, and I shall keep thy law; 

yea, I shall observe it with my whole heart.

[TheBlade]

On 5/29/2024 at 5:19 AM, Desopixi Seilynam said:

What actually happens at the judgement seat of Christ?

First, let us pretend Hitler said a prayer to Jesus in his bunker, does he get into heaven for saying a prayer sincerely?
"Oh Lord Jesus, I realize I was wrong in all of this, please forgive me... I repent.... ... what else can I do Lord,
please! ...."  Would such a sincere prayer from Hitler have been enough to get him into heaven?

For those who would say yes, then we arrive at the judgement seat of Christ in an interesting way.

What is the justice that would happen?

Hitler would get no crowns, cry during the award ceremony, and sit in the corner somewhere, but yet in heaven, immortal living forever?
He gets in but is turned into a literal pillar of the temple in heaven, conscious, but just a nice piece of stone?
Or Matthew 22:11-13 would apply in such a situation?

 

 

 

For we must all stand before the judgement seat of Christ,
that everyone may receive the things done in their body, according to what they have done,
whether they receive good or bad
Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men
2 Corinthians 5:10-11

It is not an award ceremony. It is the terror of the Lord.

Because Christ died for all, that they which live should henceforth
not live unto themselves but unto Him that died for them and rose again.
2 Corinthians 5:15

 

 

Well Christ came to save His creation not people we like or dislike. There's no measure system when it comes to sin. The simple fact no sin enters heaven. So at the bema seat we get rewards or we don't. The great white throne judgement is for those that rejected Him, and those that never heard. Its where Satan and the fallen angels will be judged. The bema seat is not judgement for there is no judgement for us because we believe in trust in Yeshua Christ as lord.

"For the LORD sees not as man sees; for man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart.”

[FreeGrace]

21 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

Yes, that is what I was responding to...

Are you going to respond to what I asked?

Would be nice to include some context.  Like your request again.  

21 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

I understand they thought their works were

good enough. Is claiming you have faith in that name

sufficient, by quoting Ephesians 2:8?

What one claims is irrelevant, since people can lie and even misunderstand what they are claiming.

It is what one believes, or trusts in that is the biblical issue.

Or, do you have verses that say otherwise?

21 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

I wonder what you think this verse means.  It is clear to me that regenerated believers are God's workmanship, for good works.  And note: that we SHOULD walk in them.

iow, Because we are God's workmanship, we SHOULD walk in the good works that God has prepared for us.

21 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

James 4:17 Therefore, to him who knows to do good

and does not do it, to him it is sin.

Of course.

21 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

Herein lies the error. Jesus died for the sins of the flesh, not of the spirit.

The error is believing this claim.  All sin comes from our flesh.  In fact, only believers have a functioning living human spirit, and believers CANNOT sin from that nature.

1 John 3:9 doesn't stay that believers cannot sin, it says believers cannot sin from their born again nature.

21 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

They claimed to have done things in His Name, but were not of the Spirit.

So what?  Doesn't matter what they DID, even.  They never believed in Jesus Christ for salvation, but rather, performed "works" that they thought would earn them entrance into the kingdom.  They were not believers.

Do you believe that a believer is able to do anything that results in loss of salvation?

21 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

Matthew 25:45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’

Not for me, or in My Name, but to me!

This is what the Spirit means by "neglecting so great a Salvation".

Correct!  The crowd in Matt 7:21 neglected salvation by trying to earn it.

21 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

What does it mean to be blameless, or without fault? 

Does this pertain to the flesh, or the Spirit?

Could you provide the verse that you are quoting from?  Thanks.

21 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

Is a half-hearted Christian a sinner of the flesh, or Spirit?

Again, it is impossible to sin in the spirit.  I'm curious as to what verse you are thinking of.

21 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

Psalm 119:34 Give me understanding, and I shall keep thy law; 

yea, I shall observe it with my whole heart.

Yes, that was David's desire and goal.  However, when he saw Bathsheba, all that "went out the window" and he didn't keep God's law.  

In fact, rape and murder are against God's law.