General- Controversial- Humor- Question?

[Neighbor]

10 minutes ago, Marathoner said:

However, the umbrella of beliefs and theological peculiarities of what is now known as "Calvinism" were established and codified after Calvin passed from this earth. It's good to point toward that fact. 

Actually, I think it was the other way round;  The followers of a then dead ( 1609) Jacobus Arminius challenged the church's existing stand which aligned with the presentations of an also by then dead John Calvin (1564)  stand on some 18 points.

The conference at Dort (Synod of Dort)  I think of 1618-19 selected five of the Arminians 18  points for discussion and rejected all five.

The re-emergence of Arminianism as i understand it only dates back to about John Wesley and the Methodists of the 1800s. Personally I reject it.

 

[Marilyn C]

On 5/30/2024 at 9:19 PM, Neighbor said:

I do not know which (See title) is the correct home category for this little statement /question/chuckle;

If I am of the mind that  Romans 8:29-30 is a correctly presented inspired of God statement then is Paul a Calvinist?

And if I find God has foreknown and predestined me personally, am I a Paulian Calvinist?

Or, since I do believe that  I could not have reasonably chosen to resist the irresistible and very specific call  from the Holy Spirit to  me to turn about  from my own sin against God, and to instead acknowledge Jesus as My Lord, God, and personal savior,  might I be the freewill Calvinist I think that I know I am? And perhaps be the world's only Freewill - Calvinist? 

 . .

 . .

 . .

INCOMING!

There is a door and on it is `whosoever will may come,` then as you go through the door on the other side is `predestined to be made into the image of Christ. `

In the time of the building of the Body of Christ we will be made into the image of Christ.

Those of the nations, eg. the great multitude will not be like that but given eternal life on the new earth.

 

[RdJ]

6 hours ago, Neighbor said:

Actually, I think it was the other way round;  The followers of a then dead ( 1609) Jacobus Arminius challenged the church's existing stand which aligned with the presentations of an also by then dead John Calvin (1564)  stand on some 18 points.

The conference at Dort (Synod of Dort)  I think of 1618-19 selected five of the Arminians 18  points for discussion and rejected all five.

The re-emergence of Arminianism as i understand it only dates back to about John Wesley and the Methodists of the 1800s. Personally I reject it.

I believe they were both wrong. I think I agree with Wesley, but I don't know everything he said. Calvin just did not listen when a guy warned him that he had to repent when he got people killed. He did not care.

Arminius was a nicer guy. But the flipside of that is that like the Lutherans say you become a cosavior. If I'm lazy and don't pray for whoever to get saved he goes to hell and it's my fault and God is too weak to do something about it, although He wants him saved. That's Arminianism. But Calvinism is go lay in bed because God does it all Himself and if your family member is not saved that may be because God hates him. So don't bother to pray like Timothy says because God wants everyone saved and don't bother binding that demon who blinds him, because God gave us the authority to bind and unbind.

And that text from somewhere around John 666. It's not given to them, so they don't get saved. Why was it not given to them? God is not a respector of persons. He kicks nobody out who comes to Him. But they did not come to ask for salvation. Why? Because they were evil. If that happened in Holland that someone walked around and multiplied bread and fishes to feed a few thousand and raised someone from the dead and healed loads of sick, the whole country would be saved. That's what He said about Sodom. They would have repented if they had seen these miracles.

 

 

[farouk]

@Willa Thanks for the 'like'; chapters such as Romans 8 are so far reaching, so encouraging and so life changing in their potential that it's hard to forget or overlook them in one's reading of Scripture...............

[Neighbor]

3 hours ago, RdJ said:

Calvinism is go lay in bed because God does it all Himself and if your family member is not saved that may be because God hates him.

Hi,

Was that Calvin the cat?

All I know is that I was brought to God in answer to the rightly asked prayers of others. That in spite of me, God called me out for He is faithful to answer prayer. I had no choice this side of my own sanity but to turn about ( repent-change my mind). Then and ever since, I have been called not to lay in bed, but to be about the work of my Lord Jesus. Never knowing the where when  how or why of it till I am well into whatever it is I have been called upon ot do as a soldier in the army of my Lord.

Seems the work is always, as I see it, being a little cog, one  needed however to allow the bigger mechanisms to  work, a ministry of "helps". So no I do not see having been foreknown and predestined as a opportunity to sit or lay in bed. Instead it has been the call to go about helping those that  do have active ministries sharing the gospel of Jesus- that many may be found mature at his return.

 I tend to think of myself as a "Freewill - Calvinist". I freely choose to be obedient to the absolutely irresistible call  of the Holy Spirit. No works on my part, no merit on my part, just repentance, and then being used of God for some, gosh, 45 years or so now. Always in what I call  "helps" mode. For me, it is what it is.

[Neighbor]

10 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

There is a door and on it is `whosoever will may come,` then as you go through the door on the other side is `predestined to be made into the image of Christ. `

 

Yes and there is a day  of the Lord as well. 

That some have such experiences even now.  It is not a who is it knocking gently at my door, come in.

Instead it is a Hey you! Come now or be left behind it is now or never.  Kind of interrupts one's day, I confess to that.

[BibleStudent100]

On 5/30/2024 at 4:19 AM, Neighbor said:

And if I find God has foreknown and predestined me personally, am I a Paulian Calvinist?

I love all these insightful (and even a little philosophical) thoughts!  Indeed, this can be a challenging concept to fully understand, but like a lot of you in the forum, I have thought a lot about this matter too.  If I may add some thoughts:

God’s almightiness is undeniably perfect and is infinite in capacity.  Yet his perfection in strength does not require him to use his power to the full extent of his omnipotence in any or in all cases.  If, in certain respects, God chooses to exercise his infinite ability of foreknowledge in a selective way and to the degree that pleases him, then assuredly no human or angel can rightly say: “What are you doing?” (Job 9:12;) It is therefore not a question of ability, what God can foresee, foreknow, and foreordain, for “with God all things are possible.” (Mt 19:26) The question is what God sees fit to foresee, foreknow, and foreordain, for “everything that he delighted to do he has done.”—Ps 115:3.  Selective exercise of foreknowledge might is therefore not simply an unleashing of limitless power but is constantly governed by his purpose and, where merited, tempered by his mercy.

[Neighbor]

9 minutes ago, BibleStudent100 said:

I love all these insightful (and even a little philosophical) thoughts!  Indeed, this can be a challenging concept to fully understand, but like a lot of you in the forum, I have thought a lot about this matter too.  If I may add some thoughts:

God’s almightiness is undeniably perfect and is infinite in capacity.  Yet his perfection in strength does not require him to use his power to the full extent of his omnipotence in any or in all cases.  If, in certain respects, God chooses to exercise his infinite ability of foreknowledge in a selective way and to the degree that pleases him, then assuredly no human or angel can rightly say: “What are you doing?” (Job 9:12;) It is therefore not a question of ability, what God can foresee, foreknow, and foreordain, for “with God all things are possible.” (Mt 19:26) The question is what God sees fit to foresee, foreknow, and foreordain, for “everything that he delighted to do he has done.”—Ps 115:3.  Selective exercise of foreknowledge might is therefore not simply an unleashing of limitless power but is constantly governed by his purpose and, where merited, tempered by his mercy.

Hi, Well put and interesting too! Gives material to think upon, and what a privilege from God for us to be able to do so.

[Neighbor]

4 hours ago, RdJ said:

But the flipside of that is that like the Lutherans say you become a cosavior

Hi and ha! a little side note: You tripped my mind back to a time I worked amongst a whole bunch of Lutherans that were always engaging in  intersectional combat,  the Missouri Synod versus the American Lutheran sect of that time 1965 -1985 .

And I was the company atheist, known by each sect  as "Dudley DoRight" of the Royal Canadian Mounties for my own moralism code of conduct.-opening doors for ladies, being a gentleman, that kind of moralism. All at a time of developing woman's rights in the USA.

What a chuckle this morning to think back on those times. How did we all survive being ourselves?

[RdJ]

 

He didn't say be lazy but how can you pray for salvation of someone when doubt is preached, but I think that's hypercalvinism.

Edited June 1, 2024 by RdJ