When There No Longer Remains A Sacrifice For Sin

[Who me]

On 6/14/2024 at 3:25 PM, Mr. M said:

A problem indeed!

Luke 17:

1 Then said he unto the disciples,

It is impossible but that offences will come:

but woe unto him, through whom they come!

2 It were better for him that a millstone was hanged about his neck,

and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him;

and if he repent, forgive him.

4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times

in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.

 

I was discussing a teaching in 1 John yesterday with @tatwo,

1 John 5:

16 If anyone sees his brother committing a trespass which does not lead to death,

he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit a trespass not leading to death. 

There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. 

17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a trespass not leading to death.

 

I was "wondering aloud" about a trespass leading to death, if the death

that resulted was the one offended.

Matthew 24:

10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another,

and will hate one another. 

11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 

12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 

13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 

You are mixing two different  situations.

How one response  to an offence against one is different to how one response to witnessing an offence.

As Christians we should have a humble attitude, ready to acknowledge our mistakes, offences etc and to ask for forgiveness. 

[Mr. M]

11 minutes ago, Who me said:

How one response  to an offence against one is different to how one response to witnessing an offence.

I was not addressing witnessing an offense.

John says there is an offense that results in death,

and I asked if that is the death of the offender, or

the one who was offended. If because of an offense,

someone dies in their own offenses, Woe to the one

by whom that offense was given.

[FreeGrace]

1 hour ago, Mr. M said:

There are great and precious promises made to all who have ears to hear what the Spirit is saying to the churches.

Yes, believers must be in fellowship with the Lord in order to hear the Spirit speaking.  When a believer is out of fellowship, they are grieving (Eph 4:30) and/or quenching (1 Thess 5:19) the Spirit and won't hear a thing.

1 hour ago, Mr. M said:

These promises are for those who overcome. When we feel that we are being overcome, there is an appeal for mercy.

The issue was about sin.  We don't "appeal to mercy" when we sin.  We are instructed to confess our sins and God is faithful and just(ified) to forgive us our sins and cleanse (purify) us from all unrighteousness.

Being overcome can come in many ways, not just sin.  

[Who me]

On 6/17/2024 at 6:48 PM, Mr. M said:

asked if that is the death of the offender, or

the one who was offended

How can a just God punish someone who has been sinned against? 

We know that God will punish the unrepentant  sinner.

God repeatedly  calls for us/Israel to protect the weak and vulnerable, so to say that God would punish those who have suffered oppression/persecution/been victims is to turn God's justice upside down.

 

[Mr. M]

1 hour ago, Who me said:

How can a just God punish someone who has been sinned against? 

We know that God will punish the unrepentant  sinner.

God repeatedly  calls for us/Israel to protect the weak and vulnerable, so to say that God would punish those who have suffered oppression/persecution/been victims is to turn God's justice upside down.

 

You misunderstood me. God gives justice for the victim.

That is why I said an "offense that leads to death"?

If the resulting death is the victim,

then the offender faces the most severe punishment,

which I think you agree.

Justice in that case is essentially "eye for an eye".

If the resulting death is the offender well,

he has reaped as he has sown.

Would you agree?

[RdJ]

On 6/14/2024 at 4:25 PM, Mr. M said:

 

 

I was discussing a teaching in 1 John yesterday with @tatwo,

1 John 5:

16 If anyone sees his brother committing a trespass which does not lead to death,

he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit a trespass not leading to death. 

There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. 

17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a trespass not leading to death.

 

I was "wondering aloud" about a trespass leading to death, if the death

that resulted was the one offended.

 

Trespass leading to death is second death I think. That's that they have sinned against the Spirit. Jesus didn't pray for Jude nor the pharisees who sinned against the Spirit. 

Practically for now: I have no idea who sinned against the Spirit. Had I lived in 1940 I would not have prayed for Hitler to get saved. There was then a preacher who said he and Mussolini would soon be in hell.

I don't pray for the antichrist. A woman got Bin Laden on her heart to pray for. I just pray for whoever God puts on my heart or in general everyone like Timothy says. I got Milosevic on my heart and a dream about him and his wife.

Edited June 19, 2024 by RdJ