Begotten Son or Eternal Son?

[First and the Last]

What do you guys think?

[Jayne]

3 hours ago, First and the Last said:

What do you guys think?

It doesn't matter what I think.  What matters is what the Bible teaches.

Begotten or begat CAN mean physically birthed by mortal humans.  Mother and Father.  That context is in the Bible lots of times.

Begotten, in its true koine Greek meaning in context of Christ and used by Christ, Himself, in John 3:16 means "single one of its kind; only"

Jesus Christ was the single and only Son of God from the beginning WITH the Father.  As John 1:1 says, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word WAS God."

Jesus Christ was, from the eternal beginning, the only Son of God.

 

[enoob57]

Every moment in God's Word increases in value to the heart and mind... staying in the Word will produce a value that exceeds that of self and all else in this world... then one is ready to teach it's precepts to others...

[First and the Last]

3 hours ago, Jayne said:

It doesn't matter what I think.  What matters is what the Bible teaches.

Begotten or begat CAN mean physically birthed by mortal humans.  Mother and Father.  That context is in the Bible lots of times.

Begotten, in its true koine Greek meaning in context of Christ and used by Christ, Himself, in John 3:16 means "single one of its kind; only"

Jesus Christ was the single and only Son of God from the beginning WITH the Father.  As John 1:1 says, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word WAS God."

Jesus Christ was, from the eternal beginning, the only Son of God.

 

The term "The Word" (Greek: "Logos") in John 1:1 KJV is understood to represent God's self-expression and self-revelation. John 1:1 states, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." The Word is the very essence of God’s thought, plan, and creative power, which was always inherent in God from eternity. It is not seen as a separate entity but as an intrinsic aspect of God's nature and being.

"The Word" in John 1:1 signifies God's self-revelation that would later become manifest in the flesh as Jesus Christ. The Logos is not considered a pre-existing second person but rather the divine mind or rational expression of God Himself. This understanding aligns with the idea that God’s word (or Logos) is active, dynamic, and creative. It is through this Word that all things were made, as John 1:3 further elaborates.

When John 1:14 states, "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us," This is the incarnation, where God's eternal Word took on human form in the person of Jesus Christ. This means that Jesus is the full and complete embodiment of the divine Word. In Jesus, the invisible God has made Himself visible and relatable to humanity. The Word became flesh indicates that the same divine essence and nature of God were now present in Jesus Christ.

In essence, "The Word" in John 1:1 is understood as God's self-expression and plan, which was fully realized in the person of Jesus Christ. There is no distinction of persons; rather, there is one God who manifested Himself in the flesh. Jesus is both the human and divine expression of the one true God, making the nature and character of God known to us through His life, teachings, death, and resurrection. This perspective underscores the absolute oneness of God and the complete deity of Jesus Christ, who is the incarnate Word, fully revealing God to the world.

[First and the Last]

John 3:16 calls Jesus the only begotten Son of God. However, many people use the phrase “eternal Son.” Is this latter phrase correct? No. The Bible never uses it, and it expresses a concept contradicted by Scripture. The word begotten is a form of the verb beget, which means “to procreate, to father, to sire.” Thus begotten indicates a definite point in time—the point at which conception takes place. By definition, the begetter (father) always must come before the begotten (offspring). There must be a time when the begetter exists and the begotten is not yet in existence, and there must be a point in time when the act of begetting occurs. Otherwise the word begotten has no meaning. So, the very words begotten and Son each contradict the word eternal as applied to the Son of God.

“Son of God” refers to the humanity of Jesus. Clearly the humanity of Jesus is not eternal but was born in Bethlehem. One can speak of eternal existence in past, present, and future only with respect to God. Since “Son of God” refers to humanity or to deity as manifest in humanity, the idea of an eternal Son is incomprehensible. The Son of God had a beginning.

[Neighbor]

14 hours ago, First and the Last said:

What do you guys think?

Hi, I think it to be a false choice, as one understanding does not eliminate the other. Both are quite valid and compatible. Both can be embraced and are.

Good ol' Got Guestions has a nice presentation on the subject under the title "What is the doctrine of eternal Sonship and is it biblical?"

[Who me]

7 hours ago, First and the Last said:

When John 1:14 states, "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us," This is the incarnation, where God's eternal Word took on human form in the person of Jesus Christ. This means that Jesus is the full and complete embodiment of the divine Word. In Jesus, the invisible God has made Himself visible and relatable to humanity. The Word became flesh indicates that the same divine essence and nature of God were now present in Jesus Christ.

Yes but it was not God who became flesh, but God the Son who became human.

You are proposing  that there is only one God, which is not supported by the Bible, neither is the idea that Jesus only came into existence  at his incarnation.

[First and the Last]

1 hour ago, Who me said:

Yes but it was not God who became flesh, but God the Son who became human.

1 Timothy 3:16

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

 

We should consider the dual nature of Christ in the framework of biblical terminology. The term “Father” refers to God Himself—God in all His deity. When we speak of the eternal Spirit of God, we mean God Himself, the Father. “God the Father,” therefore, is a perfectly acceptable and biblical phrase to use for God (Titus 1:4). However, the Bible does not use the phrase “God the Son” even one time. It is not a correct term because the Son of God refers to the humanity of Jesus Christ. The Bible defines the Son of God as the child born of Mary, not as the eternal Spirit of God (Luke 1:35). “Son of God” may refer to the human nature or it may refer to God manifested in flesh—that is, deity in the human nature.

 

“Son of God” never means the incorporeal Spirit alone, however. We can never use “Son” correctly apart from the humanity of Jesus Christ. The terms “Son of God,” “Son of man,” and “Son” are appropriate and biblical. However, the term “God the Son” is inappropriate because it equates the Son with deity alone, and therefore it is unscriptural.

1 hour ago, Who me said:

You are proposing  that there is only one God, which is not supported by the Bible

Bible emphatically declares One God.

Isaiah 44:6: "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God." (This verse emphasizes God's existence as the first and last, implying there is no other savior.)

Isaiah 43:11: "I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no savior." (This verse directly states there is no savior besides God.)

Hosea 13:4: "Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no savior beside me." (This verse emphasizes God's role as the only savior for Israel.)

Deuteronomy 6:4: "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:"

Isaiah 42:8: "I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images."

Isaiah 43:10: "Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be any after me."

Isaiah 44:6: "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God."

Mark 12:29: "And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:"

1 Corinthians 8:6: "But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him."

Ephesians 4:6: "There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;" (This verse emphasizes oneness within the Godhead)

1 Timothy 2:5: "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;"

[First and the Last]

1 hour ago, Who me said:

neither is the idea that Jesus only came into existence  at his incarnation.

The Sonship—or the role of the Son—began with the child conceived in the womb of Mary. The Scriptures make this perfectly clear. Galatians 4:4 says, “But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law.” The Son came in the fullness of time—not in eternity past. The Son was made of a woman—not begotten eternally. The Son was made under the law—not before the law. (See also Hebrews 7:28.) The term begotten refers to the conception of Jesus described in Matthew 1:18-20 and Luke 1:35. The Son of God was begotten when the Spirit of God miraculously caused conception to take place in the womb of Mary. This is evident from the very meaning of the word begotten and also from Luke 1:35 "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.", which explains that because the Holy Ghost would overshadow Mary, therefore her child would be the Son of God. We should notice the future tense in this verse: the child to be born “shall be called the Son of God.”

Hebrews 1:5-6 also reveals that the begetting of the Son occurred at a specific point in time and that the Son had a beginning in time: “For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? And again, when he bringeth the first begotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.” We can deduce the following points from these verses: the Son was begotten on a specific day in time; there was a time when the Son did not exist; God prophesied about the Son’s future existence (“will be”).

Other verses of Scripture emphasize that the Son was begotten on a certain day in time—“this day” (Psalm 2:7; Acts 13:33). All the Old Testament verses that mention the Son are clearly prophetic, looking forward to the day when the Son of God would be begotten (Psalm 2:7, 12; Isaiah 7:14; 9:6). (Daniel 3:25 refers to an angel. Even if it describes a theophany of God, it could not mean the then-nonexistent body of Jesus Christ.)

[Jayne]

10 hours ago, First and the Last said:

The term "The Word" (Greek: "Logos") in John 1:1 KJV is understood to represent God's self-expression and self-revelation. John 1:1 states, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." The Word is the very essence of God’s thought, plan, and creative power, which was always inherent in God from eternity. It is not seen as a separate entity but as an intrinsic aspect of God's nature and being.

"The Word" in John 1:1 signifies God's self-revelation that would later become manifest in the flesh as Jesus Christ. The Logos is not considered a pre-existing second person but rather the divine mind or rational expression of God Himself.

Yes, I am aware that Logos is Koine Greek for "word" and "Word". 

And the Bible says that, in context, this is the name of Jesus Christ.  Revelation 19:11-14 - " I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war. His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself.  He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God."

 I never said that Jesus Christ was a separate entity from God.  Jesus is the Son of God and God.  The Bible is clear on that.  The Son is not the Father and the Father is not the Son, but they are ONE.  That's taught in both Old and New Testament.

I DID say that Jesus Christ was pre-existing. That is clear from John 1 and Revelation 19.