Understanding the Gifts of the Spirit and Order in Worship (Check here often, slow process)

[First and the Last]

1 Corinthians 14:1, "Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy," 

Underscores the paramount importance of love (charity) as the guiding principle for all spiritual pursuits. This verse is an encouragement for believers to prioritize love in their interactions and ministry, ensuring that their desire for spiritual gifts is motivated by a genuine concern for others' edification and well-being. The emphasis on prophecy is seen as an endorsement of its role in building up the church, offering guidance, encouragement, and correction under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Prophecy, in this context, is not merely foretelling future events but speaking forth God’s word to provide insight and edification to the congregation. Thus, this verse is a call to balance the pursuit of spiritual gifts with a foundational commitment to love, using these gifts, especially prophecy, to strengthen and nurture the church community.

1 Corinthians 14:2, "For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries," 

Highlights the profound and personal nature of speaking in tongues as a form of communication with God. Speaking in tongues is a vital manifestation of the Holy Spirit, signifying a direct and intimate dialogue between the believer and God. This practice is seen as a deeply spiritual experience where the individual utters divine mysteries that transcend human understanding. It underscores the idea that speaking in tongues is not primarily for public edification unless interpreted, but rather for personal edification and spiritual connection with God. This aligns with the emphasis on the baptism of the Holy Spirit, where speaking in tongues serves as the initial evidence of this experience,(Acts 2:1-4) reinforcing a personal and spiritual communion with the divine.

1 Corinthians 14:3, "But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort," 

Highlights the vital role of prophecy in the life of the church. In this context, prophecy is understood as a divine utterance inspired by the Holy Spirit, which serves three key functions: edification, exhortation, and comfort. Edification refers to building up the faith and spiritual maturity of the congregation, helping believers grow in their understanding and relationship with God. Exhortation involves encouraging and urging individuals to pursue righteous living and remain steadfast in their faith, providing motivation and guidance. Comfort denotes offering solace and reassurance, particularly in times of trial and distress, reminding believers of God's presence and promises. Prophecy is a powerful tool for ministering to the spiritual needs of the church, promoting unity, spiritual growth, and emotional support. This perspective underscores the belief that spiritual gifts, especially prophecy, are meant to be exercised in love for the benefit and strengthening of the entire church body.

1 Corinthians 14:4, "He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church," 

Highlights the different roles and impacts of speaking in tongues and prophesying within the Christian community. Speaking in tongues, a significant practice in worship, is seen as a personal edification experience, where the individual is spiritually uplifted and strengthened by direct communion with God. This private benefit, however, contrasts with the broader, communal benefit of prophecy. Prophesying is considered a higher gift in the context of public worship because it communicates God's message in an understandable language, thereby edifying, exhorting, and comforting the entire congregation. This verse is emphasizing the need for balance between personal spiritual growth and the edification of the church body. While speaking in tongues is highly valued for personal spiritual development, prophecy is especially esteemed for its capacity to build up the church, reinforcing the communal and interdependent nature of Christian life and worship.

[AdHoc]

9 hours ago, First and the Last said:

1 Corinthians 14:1, "Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy," 

Underscores the paramount importance of love (charity) as the guiding principle for all spiritual pursuits. This verse is an encouragement for believers to prioritize love in their interactions and ministry, ensuring that their desire for spiritual gifts is motivated by a genuine concern for others' edification and well-being. The emphasis on prophecy is seen as an endorsement of its role in building up the church, offering guidance, encouragement, and correction under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Prophecy, in this context, is not merely foretelling future events but speaking forth God’s word to provide insight and edification to the congregation. Thus, this verse is a call to balance the pursuit of spiritual gifts with a foundational commitment to love, using these gifts, especially prophecy, to strengthen and nurture the church community.

1 Corinthians 14:2, "For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries," 

Highlights the profound and personal nature of speaking in tongues as a form of communication with God. Speaking in tongues is a vital manifestation of the Holy Spirit, signifying a direct and intimate dialogue between the believer and God. This practice is seen as a deeply spiritual experience where the individual utters divine mysteries that transcend human understanding. It underscores the idea that speaking in tongues is not primarily for public edification unless interpreted, but rather for personal edification and spiritual connection with God. This aligns with the emphasis on the baptism of the Holy Spirit, where speaking in tongues serves as the initial evidence of this experience,(Acts 2:1-4) reinforcing a personal and spiritual communion with the divine.

1 Corinthians 14:3, "But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort," 

Highlights the vital role of prophecy in the life of the church. In this context, prophecy is understood as a divine utterance inspired by the Holy Spirit, which serves three key functions: edification, exhortation, and comfort. Edification refers to building up the faith and spiritual maturity of the congregation, helping believers grow in their understanding and relationship with God. Exhortation involves encouraging and urging individuals to pursue righteous living and remain steadfast in their faith, providing motivation and guidance. Comfort denotes offering solace and reassurance, particularly in times of trial and distress, reminding believers of God's presence and promises. Prophecy is a powerful tool for ministering to the spiritual needs of the church, promoting unity, spiritual growth, and emotional support. This perspective underscores the belief that spiritual gifts, especially prophecy, are meant to be exercised in love for the benefit and strengthening of the entire church body.

1 Corinthians 14:4, "He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church," 

Highlights the different roles and impacts of speaking in tongues and prophesying within the Christian community. Speaking in tongues, a significant practice in worship, is seen as a personal edification experience, where the individual is spiritually uplifted and strengthened by direct communion with God. This private benefit, however, contrasts with the broader, communal benefit of prophecy. Prophesying is considered a higher gift in the context of public worship because it communicates God's message in an understandable language, thereby edifying, exhorting, and comforting the entire congregation. This verse is emphasizing the need for balance between personal spiritual growth and the edification of the church body. While speaking in tongues is highly valued for personal spiritual development, prophecy is especially esteemed for its capacity to build up the church, reinforcing the communal and interdependent nature of Christian life and worship.

There are going to be those who object to the above, so I'd like to get in early and add a few points.

All the gifts are speaking gifts. They transmit divine essence to the hearer. Even miracles causes speaking and speaking cause faith. Peter's raising of Tabitha caused many conversions. "My words are SPIRIT and LIFE" says John 6 in the context of heavenly bread -manna. "Faith comes from hearing and hearing from the Word". In Ephesians 4 the model for edifying the Church is set forth. Christ the Head Speaks to the individual and the individual brings it with to speak in the meeting. All edifying turns around God's Word. The born again man or woman has three parts, spirit, soul and body, and we know that all three profit from God's Word. The human spirit is fed by the spoken Word, the soul is enlightened by its wisdom and instruction, and the body needs it besides bread only.

But the astute student of scripture will make an observation that will challenge the emphasis you have put on tongues. They will point to it restriction to three utterances per meting. They will point to its prohibition if no gifted translator is known to be present. Beside those, he will point the quotation from Deuteronomy 28 and Isaiah 28 that being among a multitude of people speaking in foreign tongues is a sign of UNBELIEF in the Assembly (1st Cor.14:22). But there is another serious shadow for tongues. In the case of Pentecost, Cornelius' House and Ephesus of Acts 19, tongues were evident as they were "filled with the Holy Spirit". But in four other cases - Acts 4, 9 and twice in 13 men were filled with the hioly Spirit WITHOUT tongues in evidence. Finally, thy will point out that men speaking in tongues is only a "sign" of believers and would only "follow" them. That is, it would be the exception - not the rule.

The lessening and diminishing of the value of tongues is prominent when all the evidence is gathered. It must be answered. The objector might even deduce, and rightly so, that the Assembly speaking in tongues more than just a few, is a sign that we Christians are "mad" and the gospel will suffer (14:23). These points cannot be ignored. We must be ready to answer them. And, as always, the Holy Spirit, with His unlimited intellect, gives so a simple and so an effective reason. And it resolves another issue too - the unbelief of the Jew.

Because Israel rejected their Messiah, the still look for His coming. Matthew 24 warns of this - false Christs. Israel look toward Bethlehem, Egypt, the wilderness, this House and that family. They are ripe to be deceived. And many there have been in the last 2,000 years claiming this high position. So Jesus, Head and Lord of the Church does a very simple but effective thing that annuls the efforts of every Guru from anywhere. He connects Joel and the giving or filling (or furnishing - lit. Gk.) of the Holy Spirit FOR POWER (Lk.24:48, Act.1:8) with the events of JERUSALEM that weekend when the Messiah is murdered. Joel, an Old Testament prophet is connected to Jesus via 120 Believers of Jesus in Jerusalem. No Guru can come from Tibet claiming to be the Christ. The "Christ-Movement started in Jerusalem by the same source as Joel.

And then the claim of events at the House of Cornelius are "And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning" (Act.11:15). The gospel and Baptism going to the GENTILES is irrevocably connected to Jerusalem, Jesus Joel and Abraham by the tongues. No Guru from China can claim the gospel comes from him to the Nations. Then, some years later a Church has the wrong doctrine on Baptism. Apollos was in Ephesus and though the 12 "Believers" had been Baptized as Peter had commanded in Acts 2:38, they had not received the "Furnishing" ("pletho" - Gk.) of the Holy Spirit. Then came one connected to Joel, Jesus, Pentecost, Jerusalem, the crucifixion and Abraham with tongues like Pentecost. And the number was TWELVE - the number of God's people and New Jerusalem. 12 Tribes and 12 Apostles! The whole Israelite history and the events of Jerusalem and Jesus are inextricably intertwined forever. The four times recorded when the Holy Spirit was given WITH TONGUES chained the Holy Spirit historically to Jesus and an imposter can be discovered if he comes from anywhere else, or nay other line.

The four times the Holy Spirit was given WITHOUT tongues is (1) a stark contrast to emphasize when it was given, and (2) a proof that to receive the Holy Spirit FOR POWER does not have to be accompanied by an open display. Thousands of Christian suffer every day under diverse accusations that thy are NOT SAVED because they never spoke in tongues. Brilliant teachers who only start teaching after ten years of study, and brilliant pastors who only start to shepherd God's flock after they have taken wife and had children to qualify them are sometimes lost because they were told that they were not saved because they did not have the manifestation of tongues. But the four cases when no tongues where given, the characters involved where established Christians

And so with good reason we admit that tongues are given BOTH to reach the foreigner and to confirm the connection of the Christian movement on earth to Jerusalem and Jesus. With equally good reasoning we uphold scripture which asks rhetorically; "Do ALL speak in tongues???"

[Marilyn C]

28 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

 

But the astute student of scripture will make an observation that will challenge the emphasis you have put on tongues.

Hi Ad Hoc,

I don`t see the emphasis on tongues. It is a balanced and clear presentation of prophecy and tongues with the emphasis on LOVE.

[warrior12]

1 hour ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Ad Hoc,

I don`t see the emphasis on tongues. It is a balanced and clear presentation of prophecy and tongues with the emphasis on LOVE.

Yes, as to the poster clear outline of both gifts and their uses in their proper context biblically. 

But your response would be met with vehement opposition by deliverence ministries and some or most Pentecostals, as for the most part, as far as I understand, the Pentecostal Church is founded on the gifts of tonges and Pentecost as in the book of Acts. 

Really, do we witness tonges being exemplified today, as to the poster clear outline and presentation of it, is a question .

[warrior12]

14 hours ago, First and the Last said:

1 Corinthians 14:1, "Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy," 

Underscores the paramount importance of love (charity) as the guiding principle for all spiritual pursuits. This verse is an encouragement for believers to prioritize love in their interactions and ministry, ensuring that their desire for spiritual gifts is motivated by a genuine concern for others' edification and well-being. The emphasis on prophecy is seen as an endorsement of its role in building up the church, offering guidance, encouragement, and correction under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Prophecy, in this context, is not merely foretelling future events but speaking forth God’s word to provide insight and edification to the congregation. Thus, this verse is a call to balance the pursuit of spiritual gifts with a foundational commitment to love, using these gifts, especially prophecy, to strengthen and nurture the church community

For my limited understanding of these spiritual matters, because I have not spoken in tonges, I can relate to the spiritual realm and the truths of its' existence as real encounters with the body and spirit,  but is the gift of tongue practiced or displayed biblical as you so clearly outlined.   

My question though, since these are spritual gifts, can they be conterfiets and how would one really know if they are really authentic ?.  To me these are very serious spiritual mystries that believers must speak the truths and testify about, because serious harm can be done to the mental status of an individual.   I say this, becuase I can testify that the spiritual realm of seduction and inducements do exist and can manipulate the soul of a man if he is not aware of what he is receiving into his soul, boday and spirit.

Of course, if the Lord gives a person a gift or gifts , no devil or counterfieter can take that away or interfere with those, as who the Lord bless, none can curse.  The point I stress is the authentication of those gifts, that are not visible, and my conclusion is that is between the believer and God. The believer has to be true to himself as to how he see the manifestation of his gifts are used in the proper biblical context.    

Prophecy as you explained very well, and the edifying of the Church , used in the context as outlined is a visibly, audible act ,that though, we hear and see the person, still has to be reasoned and can be compared with scripture and commented or other.  

Thank you for your well presented and non-bias outline of your topic.

Edited June 22, 2024 by warrior12

[First and the Last]

1 hour ago, warrior12 said:

My question though, since these are spiritual gifts, can they be counterfeits and how would one really know if they are really authentic ?.  To me these are very serious spiritual mysteries that believers must speak the truths and testify about, because serious harm can be done to the mental status of an individual.   I say this, because I can testify that the spiritual realm of seduction and inducements do exist and can manipulate the soul of a man if he is not aware of what he is receiving into his soul, body and spirit.

Speaking in tongues is regarded as a genuine spiritual gift and the initial physical evidence of receiving the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. However, the possibility of counterfeits is acknowledged. To discern the authenticity of speaking in tongues, several criteria are emphasized. Firstly, the context in which the gift is manifested is considered crucial; authentic speaking in tongues should occur within a sincere, worshipful, and orderly environment as described in Acts 2 and 1 Corinthians 14. Secondly, the fruits of the Spirit, such as love, joy, peace, and righteousness, as outlined in Galatians 5:22-23, should be evident in the life of the individual speaking in tongues, demonstrating a genuine transformation and alignment with God’s will. Thirdly, the guidance and confirmation from church leaders and the community of believers play a vital role in discerning authenticity, as they can provide spiritual oversight and discernment. I believe that through prayer, scriptural alignment, and the witness of the Holy Spirit within the church, believers can distinguish true manifestations of speaking in tongues from counterfeits, ensuring that this spiritual gift is used for the edification of the church and the glory of God.

[First and the Last]

1 Corinthians 14:5, "I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying," 

Highlights the primacy of edification within the church community. While speaking in tongues is valued as a significant spiritual gift and a personal means of communication with God, prophecy holds a higher place in communal worship because it directly edifies the congregation. Prophecy, which involves conveying messages from God that offer encouragement, instruction, and correction, serves to build up the church more effectively than speaking in tongues, unless the tongues are interpreted. The interpretation of tongues bridges the gap, making the message accessible and beneficial to the entire church. Thus, this scripture is seen as guiding believers to seek spiritual gifts that not only enhance their personal spirituality but also contribute to the collective strength and edification of the church body.

1 Corinthians 14:6, "Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?" 

Highlights the importance of intelligible communication within the church for edification. While speaking in tongues is highly valued as an evidence of the baptism of the Holy Spirit and a personal prayer language, this verse emphasizes that public ministry should primarily focus on understandable messages that build up the church. Speaking in tongues, unless interpreted, does not benefit the congregation because it lacks clear communication. Therefore, Paul urges believers to prioritize delivering revelations, knowledge, prophecies, and doctrines in a language the congregation understands. This approach ensures that the church is instructed, encouraged, and edified. This passage is advocating for a balanced practice of spiritual gifts, where the edification of the church body through comprehensible teachings and prophetic insights takes precedence in corporate worship settings.

1 Corinthians 14:7, "And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?" 

This is understood as an illustration emphasizing the need for clarity and intelligibility in the use of spiritual gifts within the church. Just as musical instruments must produce distinct and recognizable notes to convey a melody or harmony, so too must spiritual gifts, particularly speaking in tongues and prophecy, be used in a manner that edifies and instructs the congregation. This verse underscores the importance of making spiritual expressions understandable and meaningful to the listeners. In the context of worship and ministry, it calls for orderly and clear communication so that the congregation can be edified and encouraged. The Church advocates for the proper interpretation and application of spiritual gifts, ensuring that they contribute to the spiritual growth and unity of the church body, much like distinct musical notes contribute to a cohesive and beautiful piece of music.

1 Corinthians 14:8, "For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?" 

Highlights the critical importance of clarity and distinctiveness in spiritual communication and leadership within the church. This verse as a metaphor emphasizing the need for clear, understandable, and authoritative preaching and teaching of God's Word. Just as a clear trumpet sound is essential for soldiers to recognize and respond to a call to battle, so must the messages delivered within the church be clear and unambiguous to effectively guide, edify, and prepare believers for spiritual challenges. This clarity is especially vital in the exercise of spiritual gifts, such as prophecy and tongues, ensuring that their use edifies the congregation and aligns with scriptural truths. The verse underscores the responsibility of church leaders and believers to communicate God's message with precision and authority, fostering a spiritually prepared and vigilant community.

[Sower]

25 minutes ago, First and the Last said:

However, the possibility of counterfeits is acknowledged. To discern the authenticity of speaking in tongues, several criteria are emphasized.

I have always wondered why there is not at least two interpreters present listening and writing down their own understanding of what they heard. Then compare and see if the two are the same and evaluate, true or counterfeit. Then show the body what was said.

I do not speak in tongues. I personally have never witnessed a program where there was an interpreter present, and that gave his/her interpretation. My wife has said she has spoken in tongues, I have never heard her, and she says nobody else either. It is private.
When I watch it on tv with the whole body speaking in tongues with jumping and shouting I do not "feel/believe" God is honored.
God is not the author of confusion. I cannot evaluate what I do not understand nor have experienced.

And for some reason God's small voice has not encouraged me to seek it. Yet I'm still able to communicate and have fellowship, and feel no loss of that gift, or loss of what I've never experienced. The generations of bible interpreters have given me very accurate words of scripture in my own language to fully understand in my bible.

Thanks, First an the Last..

[warrior12]

10 minutes ago, First and the Last said:

Speaking in tongues, unless interpreted, does not benefit the congregation because it lacks clear communication. Therefore, Paul urges believers to prioritize delivering revelations, knowledge, prophecies, and doctrines in a language the congregation understands. This approach ensures that the church is instructed, encouraged, and edified. This passage is advocating for a balanced practice of spiritual gifts, where the edification of the church body through comprehensible teachings and prophetic insights takes precedence in corporate worship settings.

I will say again, scripture does mention and gives the direction and instructions as to how the gift is to be utilized.  I do believe and have engaged with spiritual beings which is termed spiritual warfare and I recently made a post with some description of events I have encountered, so my questions are more of an understanding of how what is written in the word and how it is actually executed in the real life here is performed and accounted.   So, my questions is not one of rejection and defaming, but undersanding how these very important events takes place in our lives here, which affects millions of believers.

That said,  as you mentioned "unless interpreted" and I would take that as an person in a congregation that is felt called by the divine interpretor to interpret what the spoke tongue message is.  Now, if is an unknown language, the person doing the interpetation , obviously has to be true to what he says and thats fine, only the rest of the congregation has to in turn accept that as the absolute truth.    Again, how can we authenticate that interpretation, we cannot and as I see it, has to be the person doing the interpretation being truthful as God will be his judge.   That is all good, except, lets say that person is dishonest, there is no way , the congregation can know that and things can go horribly wrong.    I did not want to say that, but it is what in my mind and I have to be thuthful as to my questions, and I like your way of explaining things.

Also, could those interpretion include prophecies of fortelling future things, even in small matters like a person delima in everyday life, and not necessarily world events ?.   These are some of the questions that I have with this gift as it is used  today .

[warrior12]

I remember a few weeks or months ago, I had a brief dialogue with a guy about tongues here , and he seemed genuine in his post. I asked him to give the experience where he started to speak in tongues and I believed him.  I still don't know if it was genuine, but as per our conversation I felt that he was speaking the truth.  I will see if I can find that and repost it here if it is ok with you. 

Edited June 22, 2024 by warrior12