Works III - The Origin of Good Works

[enoob57]

2 hours ago, Sower said:

          

Good one, Pat. As I have become more aware of the Bema seat judgement the older I get, I've been reconsidering my own motives in the past/present. This is not so easy to do. Was it me, or Christ in me? Was I motivated by God's spirit prompting me, or self?

There are times I feel the need as I see the need, and I do not always consult God, or acknowledge him, but just do it.
Much of the works I have done can not be hidden or unseen working together. I have learned the wisdom in praying for enemies, those I don't like, that hurt me etc. In Christ have no permission/reason to be in flesh.

I would like to believe  I am on 'auto pilot' in most of my 'good works', as having maybe an instant desire pops up to help seeing a need. I do not always mentally say something like to God the glory in this, though later will thank him for the opportunity to help .

But I think/hope it is to God's glory in most any good work I do because if it hadn't been for God within me, I probably wouldn't have been moved or motivated to do it to begin with.
I think of times in my involvement, say at a church project, church voluntary army construction crew constructing class rooms etc.
Did I do a good work? I enjoyed being there, enjoyed using my talents as a construction carpenter.

And yes, enjoyed the satisfaction of a job well done and as seen by others, and the pat on the back is nice.
Like grandma enjoying to hear the grand kids compliment her cookies she labored over.

If I'm not careful I tend to over think it worrying about every motive.

From what I studied, the bema seat is a raised stage for the judge, and we believers will have our good works judged.
Wood hay stubble, silver gold precious stones. Works motivated by the spirit vs motivated by self for recognition.
Am I glorifying/praising God or glorifying myself. I remember  we are not judged for our sins there, but our works, good/bad.

What about those who did not receive attention as a child in their formative years and then needing reinforcement/approval doing many things to receive attention to fulfill their missing need? Not bad but not good?  My understanding is if we have received our rewards on earth for a good work, well then we won't receive it again at judgement. Not a sin but not a good work, our sins will already have been judged. God did not receive the Glory but I received it, and was recognized already on earth.

We have to be very careful not to do wrong things and sin, and, have to be careful when doing the right thing, for the right reason/motive.                 The necessity to take EVERY thought captive.....

A really neat book on this subject below on E bay less than 5-10 bucks, pre owned/used.

"The Judgment Seat of Christ : A Biblical and Theological Study"    by Samuel L. Hoyt  (The Bema Seat)

 

Thanks again Pat.  Glad this bema seat topic came up.

                          

                           "For we are His workmanship,
             having been created in Christ Jesus for good works
      which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them"

"By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit and so prove to be my disciples"

Just as no branch can bear fruit by itself unless it remains in the vine, neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in Me.

                          “Every good and perfect gift is from above”

                               

                                                    Philippians 2:13

"For it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose"

 

 

 

 

The truth sets us free from this worry:
All that is of this world will be burnt up and forgotten (all of it)
 

Knowledge will cease:

1Cor 13:8 

Rev 21:1-5

Isa 65:17

Some contend that the earth will be renovated but according to God's Word 'all things will be made new' ... God is going to make all things new cf. 

Isa 42:9

Isa 48:6

Isa 66:22

2 Peter 3:13

 

Isa 62:2

 

1.            new things, Isa 42:9  Isa 48:6

2.            new song, Isa 42:10 (cf. Rev 5:9 Rev 14:3)

3.            something new, Isa 43:19 (cf. Rev 3:12)

4.            new name, Isa 62:2 (cf. Isa 56:5)

5.            new heavens and a new earth, Isa 65:17 

                        Isa 66:22 (cf. 2 Peter 3:13)

 

The "new" day (cf. Rev 21:5) was, in reality, the day that God always wanted for humans, but the Fall in Gen 3 caused a terrible disruption! It is surely possible that the Bible's imagery of heaven is a restored Garden of Eden (cf. Rev 21:2

And that which will be can not be known now... why? Because God in His infinite exist has told us -the above- and if we had that knowledge now it also would be slated to be removed... God cannot lie!

Be at peace in becoming like little children 'without clue' yet believing

Matthew 18:3 (NKJV)

[3] and said, “Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. [4] “Therefore whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. [5] “Whoever receives one little child like this in My name receives Me.

How this helps in this discussion - if all things are removed and forgotten then that which remains is of God and kept by God and God has got this!

1 John 3:2 (NKJV)
[2] Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.

The waiting... yet right now
1 Corinthians 2:9 (NKJV)

[9] But as it is written:

“Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,

Nor have entered into the heart of man

The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”

[10] But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. [11] For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God.

Notice our flesh is not happy with this= how evident it is not part of us and is slated for destruction and forgetting...

 

[AdHoc]

10 hours ago, Cntrysner said:

@AdHoc,Are you saying that the men Christ will tell to "depart from me" "in that day" were baptized by the Spirit, resurrected, born again Christians?

Yes.

I'll go through the proofs again.
1. According to the grammar on Chapter 5:1 our Lord was speaking to His disciple. "...  and He taught THEM
2. Jesus referred to MY, YOUR and OUR Father. He could only say that if the disciples had been born to the Father
3. The Lord spoke of the Kingdom. You are only eligible for the Kingdom if you are born again (Jn.3:3) and baptized (Jn.3:5)
4. The men knew Jesus during their lifetime - doing works in His name
5. The men had power to do Christ's works. This only comes from the receiving of the Holy Spirit economically* (Act.1:8)
6. One can only receive the Holy Spirit economically* after being Baptized (Act.2:38, 19:1-7)
7. Jesus did not deny their claims.
8. Jesus refused the Kingdom to these men based on works
9. Not the works were judged but the will of the Father
10. At the Bema only Christians will be present (Rom.14:10, 2 Cor.5:10)
11. The following verses show that Jesus spoke to those who "heard His Words"
12. The word "know" is "ginosko" in Greek. It means "intimate knowledge". This gives the reason why men did wondrous works in Jesus' Name and were not within the will of the Father.They did not sit at His feet to learn when to apply the works.

* The Holy Spirit is given twice to a believer. Once to impart the divine life and rebirth to the believer (Jn.20:22, 30-31) and Once for power to serve (Lk.24:49, Act.1:8). God's work on earth needs men who have the divine life INTERNALLY (Jn.3:6) and who have power OUTWARDLY. The Greek word for God's work on earth is "oikonomia" meaning "household management" of "dispensing"

[AdHoc]

9 hours ago, PATrobas said:

I'm not sure about this, but I don't believe Judas Iscariot was a believer yet he did things as commanded by Jesus, being one of the twelve.

Mark 6:7 "And he called unto him the twelve, and began to send them forth by two and two; and gave them power over unclean spirits;

Mark 6:13  And they cast out many devils, and anointed with oil many that were sick, and healed them."

If he did no miracles, I would think his partner would have noticed and brought it up to Jesus, No? We can't say for sure, but it would seem a glaring omission in Scripture if that had been the case.

I always did, and still assume that those saying 'Lord, Lord' were not saved. Interesting point though and I'll look into it further, thanks.

 

The Holy Spirit is given to men in two ways. One so that the divine life is imparted to a believer, and one for power to serve God and build His House. In John 20:30-31 it tells us that the end of BELIEVING is life. Then, once Christ has breathed the Holy Spirit INTO His disciples (Jn.20:22), He ordered them to wait in Jerusalem for the giving of the Holy Spirit for POWER (Lk.24:49, Act.1:8). The prophets of old received the OUTWARD Holy Spirit to write the word and do miracles. Balaam's donkey was also furnished by the Holy Spirit to take, but afterwards he was still a donkey. The INTRINSIC Holy Spirit could only be given AFTER Christ's resurrection (Jn.7:39). The OUTWARD Holy Spirit is given as God desires for SERVICE at any time. So there is no conflict concerning Judas. He was EMPOWERED though and enemy of Christ. So was Peter who denied the Lord.

The narrative of Matthew 7:21-23 is not about salvation. It is a day of decision by the Lord as to which Christians may be co-kings with Him in the Kingdom when He rules the Nations (Lk.19:17-19). The FAITH of the men standing before the Judge is not questioned. The source of the WORKS is not disputed. What is judged is whether the man will do what the Father says. This was the mark of a KING. Those who were not intimate with Christ and who did their own thing will not be appointed kings.

5 Because David did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, and turned not aside from any thing that he commanded him all the days of his life, save only in the matter of Uriah the Hittite. 1 Kin.15:5.

[AdHoc]

1 hour ago, LaMonte said:

 

 

     2 Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

     The scriptures is the only inspired book I know, any other book is only man's opinion. I look at all other books but the "Scriptures" as commentaries. The scriptures I read have no "copyright" it’s not own by man, Its free, just like Jesus, Apostles and the writers of the Scriptures they freely gave us the word. 

I read other books from Believer, but they are just books to me. I personally never recommend other books outside the Scripture. I personally don't think God ever fits His word to suit me; He fits me to suit His word. 

A noble sentiment no doubt. But don't forget that God gave Teachers to build up the saints (Ephesians 4)

[Sower]

1 hour ago, LaMonte said:

 The scriptures is the only inspired book I know, any other book is only man's opinion.

 

1 hour ago, LaMonte said:

I read other books from Believer, but they are just books to me. I personally never recommend other books outside the Scripture. I personally don't think God ever fits His word to suit me; He fits me to suit His word. 

Cool. So LaMonte, how did you decide which of those other man's books to read/purchase?
Was there some reason to chose one vs another? Advertisement or word of mouth?
How can you justify participating here on this "un inspired" forum of men/women, discussing scripture?

Just curious.

Thanks LaMonte..

PS. I do understand the bible is the word of God. Jesus is the Word.     And, I do not know it all.

                          "Where no wise guidance is, the people falleth;

                        But in the multitude of counselors there is safety"
                                               Proverbs 11:14

[LaMonte]

59 minutes ago, Sower said:

how did you decide which of those other man's books to read/purchase?

    Reading a book to me from a believer would be no different than me telling you what I think about the subject we are discussing. I am giving you, my thoughts. When I read a book, I look at it the same way.

     It’s like the Bereans in Acts 17:11. Though zealous to hear, they first tested it for themselves from the Scriptures and then submitted themselves to following it. The Bereans received it only because it agreed with the Scriptures, which they searched daily.

     Yes, I will buy a book from a believer to read what they have to say. I do like to hear other’s opinion on Doctrinal subjects, but to me they are only opinions.

     I have never written a book on the Scriptures, If I did, I would never charge for it. I would never merchandise the word of God to make a profit or a living.

     1 Cor 9:18 What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel. The disciples received the message from Jesus for free and they were to offer it freely to all who would come and hear and believe. 

When it comes to this subject Pat is talking about, I want to be like the Bereans.

[TheBlade]

On 7/26/2024 at 1:54 PM, PATrobas said:

Reminders – Works III - Origins

            What are good works? How can we do them? Will we get rewarded for them? We’ve examined these topics lately and the role works play in God’s just judgement of mankind. Now we will look at what makes works good or bad, the source of works, and whether we are to judge our works.

            Jesus said, “Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you.”   ^-23 The works done ‘in Jesus’ name’ by these people, were ‘good works’ in the eyes of the world, but they were done by the will of their flesh. It is not the deeds themselves that are judged as good or bad, but God judges the source and motivation behind the works. ^{Hebrews 4:12-13} God says, “Whatsoever is not of faith is sin.” ^{Romans 14:23} Whatever God does through someone is a good work. His power. His idea. God revealing His will to us by hearing His voice, agreeing with Him, and then yielding to Him. In other words, by faith. When faith takes place in us, we are believing what He says and consequentially, He empowers us to do what He asks us to do. Jesus said, “But I say unto you which hear. Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.” ^{Luke 6:27-28} These things are impossible to do in the flesh. God must do them in us. When He does, they are put to our account as good works. Good works are whatever is done by faith, and “faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.” ^{Romans 10:17} Jesus is our example. He could have done whatever He willed to do. Instead, He always submitted Himself to His Father’s will by faith.  He said, “I can of my own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge, and my judgement is just; because I seek not my own will, but the will of the Father which has sent me.” ^{John 5:30} “but the Father that dwells in me, He does the works.” ^{John 14:10} Paul rhetorically questioned the churches of Galatia, “He therefore that ministers to you the Spirit, and works miracles among you, [does he do them] by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?” ^{Galatians 3:5} We aren’t to look for or try to do good things for God. Rather, God is looking for yielded vessels that He can manifest His power through, and be glorified in. ^{2 Corinthians 4:7}

            Final Thoughts: We must be careful in judging works. If we have hardened our hearts to the conviction of the Holy Spirit, and are continually behaving in an un-godly manner, or engaging in questionable activities, Paul told us to examine ourselves to see if we are saved. ^{2 Corinthians 13:5} If we observe these things done without shame or repentance in others, then there are steps of correction that should be followed. ^{(See 1 Corinthians 5)} But if we get entangled in judging every motive or action as to whether the Lord has indeed directed it, then Paul said don’t do that.  “But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged…of man's judgment: yea, I judge not my own self. For I know nothing by myself…but he that judges me is the Lord.” ^{1 Corinthians 4:3-4} My business is to stay focused on what He is telling me to do, without worrying what others might be doing. ^{John 21:21-22} We are here to represent Jesus, “created in Christ Jesus unto good works which God has before ordained that we should walk in them.” ^{Ephesians 2:10} Let’s be attentive to His voice that reveals His will, and then walk in His good works.      _ph

 

Hi.. you have to know I am guessing that in Matt there you understand they were all still under the law all doing the law. The fact He says with in that verse "on that day". Its not us believers that will be there. Context.  There were no Christians there. He was talking to the Jewish people.  There is no your saved by what you did and didn't do. Praise GOD you touched on good works yet where's the faith? Never touched that. With out faith its worthless. Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Like our Father we call those things that be not as though they were. Its praying asking the Father for what we need, we believe we receive it, meaning we can't see it feel it but we know we have already received it.. hello Salvation. That is faith you can't see it you can't feel it but you know you have received it simply because you believe what GOD said.

 

This is what He's talking about when he says faith with out works is dead.  Its right there within what you said yet you can't see it. 

 

[PATrobas]

9 minutes ago, TheBlade said:

Hi.. you have to know I am guessing that in Matt there you understand they were all still under the law all doing the law. The fact He says with in that verse "on that day". Its not us believers that will be there. Context.  There were no Christians there. He was talking to the Jewish people.  There is no your saved by what you did and didn't do. Praise GOD you touched on good works yet where's the faith? Never touched that. With out faith its worthless. Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Like our Father we call those things that be not as though they were. Its praying asking the Father for what we need, we believe we receive it, meaning we can't see it feel it but we know we have already received it.. hello Salvation. That is faith you can't see it you can't feel it but you know you have received it simply because you believe what GOD said.

 

This is what He's talking about when he says faith with out works is dead.  Its right there within what you said yet you can't see it. 

 

Hi Blade, I guess you missed this in my OP. My point is that God is the one who does good works in us by FAITH. Hebrews 11:6 "Without faith it is impossible to please Him..." The basis of all good works is faith.

'God says, “Whatsoever is not of faith is sin.” ^{Romans 14:23} Whatever God does through someone is a good work. His power. His idea. God revealing His will to us by hearing His voice, agreeing with Him, and then yielding to Him. In other words, by faith. When faith takes place in us, we are believing what He says and consequentially, He empowers us to do what He asks us to do. Jesus said, “But I say unto you which hear. Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.” ^{Luke 6:27-28} These things are impossible to do in the flesh. God must do them in us. When He does, they are put to our account as good works. Good works are whatever is done by faith, and “faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.” ^{Romans 10:17} Jesus is our example. He could have done whatever He willed to do. Instead, He always submitted Himself to His Father’s will by faith.  He said, “I can of my own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge, and my judgement is just; because I seek not my own will, but the will of the Father which has sent me.” ^{John 5:30} “but the Father that dwells in me, He does the works.” ^{John 14:10} Paul rhetorically questioned the churches of Galatia, “He therefore that ministers to you the Spirit, and works miracles among you, [does he do them] by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?” ^{Galatians 3:5'}

^{Blessings. Pat}

[steve morrow]

THE  ORIGIN  OF  GOOD  WORKS ??

 

GENESIS 1:1  in the beginning  GOD  created the heaven and the earth 

DANIEL 4:37  now I Nebuchadnezzar praise and extol and honor the king of heaven all whose works are truth and  HIS  ways judgment and those that walk in pride  HE  is able to abase 

PSALM 7:11  GOD  judgeth the righteous and  GOD  is angry with the wicked every day

PROVERBS 17:15 he that justifieth the wicked and he that condemned the just even they both are abomination to  THE  LORD

PSALM 119:155  salvation is far from the wicked for they seek not  MY  statutes

 

GENESIS 26:5  because that Abraham obeyed --MY  voice  --  and kept  MY  charge  --  MY  commandments  --  MY  statutes  --  and  MY  laws

GENESIS 18:18  seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him 

--18:19--  for I know him that he will command his children and his household after him and they shall keep the way of  THE  LORD  to do justice and judgment that  THE   

LORD  may bring upon Abraham that which  HE  hath spoken of him

 

PSALM 19:8  the statutes of  THE  LORD  are right rejoicing the heart the commandment of  THE  LORD  is pure enlightening the eyes 

--19:9--  the fear of  THE  LORD  is clean enduring forever the judgments of  THE  LORD  are true and righteous altogether 

--19:10--  more to be desired are they than gold yea than much fine gold sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb 

--19:11--  moreover by them is thy servant warned and in keeping of them there is great reward

 

ACTS 13:26  men and brethren children of the stock of Abraham and whosoever among you feareth  GOD  to you is the word of this salvation sent

GALATIANS 3:7  know you therefore that they which are of faith the same are the children of Abraham 

 

JAMES 2:23 and the scripture was fulfilled which saith Abraham believed  GOD  and it was imputed unto him for righteousness and he was called the friend of  GOD

 

JOHN 15:13  greater love hath no man than this that a man lay down his life for his friends 

--15:14--  you are  MY  friends --IF--  you do whatsoever I command you 

 

HEBREWS 11:7  by faith Noah being warned of  GOD  of things not seen as yet moved with fear prepared an ark to the saving of his house by the which  HE  condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith 

 

HEBREWS 11:8  BY  FAITH  Abraham when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance  --OBEYED--  and he went out not knowing whither he went

 

JAMES 2:17  even so faith if it hath not works is dead being alone 

 

1 JOHN 3:10  in this the children of  GOD  are manifest and the children of the devil  whosoever doeth not righteousness ---IS  NOT  OF  GOD--- neither he that loveth not his brother 

1 JOHN 2:10  he that loveth his brother abideth in the light and there is none occasion of stumbling in him

JOHN 12:46  I am come a light into the world that whosoever believeth on  ME should not abide in darkness

 

LOVING  THE  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST 

[Marathoner]

17 hours ago, AdHoc said:

The Holy Spirit is given to men in two ways. One so that the divine life is imparted to a believer, and one for power to serve God and build His House. In John 20:30-31 it tells us that the end of BELIEVING is life. Then, once Christ has breathed the Holy Spirit INTO His disciples (Jn.20:22), He ordered them to wait in Jerusalem for the giving of the Holy Spirit for POWER (Lk.24:49, Act.1:8). The prophets of old received the OUTWARD Holy Spirit to write the word and do miracles. Balaam's donkey was also furnished by the Holy Spirit to take, but afterwards he was still a donkey. The INTRINSIC Holy Spirit could only be given AFTER Christ's resurrection (Jn.7:39). The OUTWARD Holy Spirit is given as God desires for SERVICE at any time. So there is no conflict concerning Judas. He was EMPOWERED though and enemy of Christ. So was Peter who denied the Lord.

The narrative of Matthew 7:21-23 is not about salvation. It is a day of decision by the Lord as to which Christians may be co-kings with Him in the Kingdom when He rules the Nations (Lk.19:17-19). The FAITH of the men standing before the Judge is not questioned. The source of the WORKS is not disputed. What is judged is whether the man will do what the Father says. This was the mark of a KING. Those who were not intimate with Christ and who did their own thing will not be appointed kings.

5 Because David did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, and turned not aside from any thing that he commanded him all the days of his life, save only in the matter of Uriah the Hittite. 1 Kin.15:5.

I appreciate the manner in which you articulate how we receive the Spirit in two different ways. It's something I understood from experience but never put forth in a manner comparable to the above.  Well done, brother.