Bema Seat Judgment

[FreeGrace]

On 8/20/2024 at 5:10 AM, Desopixi Seilynam said:

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus,
who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Rom 8:1 is a verse about eternal security.  Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus

And reflects John 5:24 which is also about eternal security - 5:24 - Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

On 8/20/2024 at 5:10 AM, Desopixi Seilynam said:

That the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us
who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit.

Notice the "might be" potential.  The righteous requirement of the law SHOULD BE fulfilled in believers.  It is potential.  

On 8/20/2024 at 5:10 AM, Desopixi Seilynam said:

What does the Lord require of thee, but to do justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God.
Micah 6:8

Yes, God requires all of His children to do justly and love mercy.

On 8/20/2024 at 5:10 AM, Desopixi Seilynam said:

Circumcision is that of the heart.  Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart...love ye therefore the stranger. Deuteronomy 10:16,19

Speaks of conversion, regeneration, being born again.

On 8/20/2024 at 5:10 AM, Desopixi Seilynam said:

Grumble not one against another, lest you be condemned, behold, the judge stands at the door.
James 5:9

This cannot be about losing salvation, or Jesus wasn't telling the truth when He said that those who believe (present tense) HAVE (present tense) eternal life in Johbn 5:24 and then in 10:28 said, "I give them (believers-5:24) eternal life, and they shall NEVER PERISH".

There is no wriggle room here.  Eternal security is a guarantee for every believer.  But every believer will be evaluated (judged) on their lifestyle and recompensed accordingly, per 2 Cor 5:10 - For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

[Desopixi Seilynam]

On 8/21/2024 at 7:57 AM, FreeGrace said:

This cannot be about losing salvation, or Jesus wasn't telling the truth when He said that those who believe (present tense) HAVE (present tense) eternal life in Johbn 5:24 and then in 10:28 said, "I give them (believers-5:24) eternal life, and they shall NEVER PERISH".

Grumble not one against another, lest you be condemned.
James 5:9

 

John 5:24
"Verily, verily, I say unto you,
he that hears my words, and BELIEVES ON HIM THAT SENT ME,
has everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation;
but is passed from death to life."

 

What does it mean to hear Jesus' words?

And what does it mean to believe in the One that sent Jesus?

Because that is the belief Jesus is speaking about in John 5:24.
Not passive belief in His death and resurrection,
but an active belief in His words and in the One who sent Him.

 

 

What does it mean to hear Jesus' words!?

That all men should honor the Son,
even as the honor the Father
John 5:23

Verily verily I say unto you,
he that honors my words,
and believes on Him that sent me.....
John 5:24

 

That is what it means,
an active honor full, obedient, belief,
not a passive one time belief.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 27, 2024 by Desopixi Seilynam
meaning

[FreeGrace]

2 hours ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

  FreeGrace said:

This cannot be about losing salvation, or Jesus wasn't telling the truth when He said that those who believe (present tense) HAVE (present tense) eternal life in Johbn 5:24 and then in 10:28 said, "I give them (believers-5:24) eternal life, and they shall NEVER PERISH".

Grumble not one against another, lest you be condemned.
James 5:9

Cute!  But I'm not grumbling.  I'm quoting Scripture.  Are you grumbling about my quoting Scripture?

2 hours ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

John 5:24
"Verily, verily, I say unto you,
he that hears my words, and BELIEVES ON HIM THAT SENT ME,
has everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation;
but is passed from death to life."

Eternal security!!

2 hours ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

What does it mean to hear Jesus' words?

To believe them.  

2 hours ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

And what does it mean to believe in the One that sent Jesus?

To believe what God has promised about His Son.  That He gives eternal life to those who believe in Him.

2 hours ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

Because that is the belief Jesus is speaking about in John 5:24.
Not passive belief in His death and resurrection,
but an active belief in His words and in the One who sent Him.

There is no such thing as "passive belief" in the Bible.  There is belief and unbelief.

Either one believes the promise, or they don't.  

It's always dicey when one adds unbiblical adjectives to God's Word.

2 hours ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

What does it mean to hear Jesus' words!?

I just explained.

2 hours ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

That all men should honor the Son, even as the honor the Father
John 5:23

Verily verily I say unto you, he that honors my words, and believes on Him that sent me.....
John 5:24

Why stop there?  The very next words are "HAS (present tense) eternal life".  

2 hours ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

That is what it means, an active honor full, obedient, belief, not a passive one time belief.

See there?  You did it again!  Adding unbiblical adjectives that aren't found in the Bible.

The Greek word for 'believe' is to "trust".  That means putting your faith in what it is that you believe.

Do you believe that Jesus gives eternal life to those who trust in Him to do so?

Your answer will reveal how much you understand the Bible.

I look forward to it.

[Desopixi Seilynam]

On 8/27/2024 at 7:21 AM, FreeGrace said:

Do you believe that Jesus gives eternal life to those who trust in Him to do so?

 

"My sheep hear my voice, I know them and they follow me
and I give unto them (that hear my voice and follow me)
eternal life, and they (that hear my voice and follow me) shall never perish,
neither shall any pluck them (that hear my voice and follow me)
out of my hand" John 10:27-28

"I say unto you that hear, love...." Luke 6:27

"And if you love me, keep my commandments"
John 14:15

"This is my commandment, that you love one another"
John 15:12

"Judas said to Him, not Iscariot,
Lord, how is it that you will reveal yourselves to us and not to the world?"
And Jesus said, If any man loves me, he will keep my words:
and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him,
and make our abode with him"
John 14:22-23

"You disciples go out into all the world and teach all nations,
baptizing  them in them in the name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost,
teaching them to observe all of my words"
Matthew 28:19-20

"He that does not love me, does not keep my sayings"
John 14:24

"was Paul crucified for you?
Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?"
1 Corinthians 1:13

"If anyone does not love the Lord Jesus Christ,
let that person be Anathema! Oh Lord Come!"
1 Corinthians 16:22

 

"In conclusion treat people the way you would
want to be treated, for this is the law and the prophets.....
And they were astonished at His doctrine
for He taught as one with authority and not as the scribes"
Matthew 7:12, 28

"If anyone transgresses (disobeys the Torah 1 John 3:4)
and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ,
they do not have God. Whoever abides in the doctrine of Christ
has both the Father and the Son.
If anyone comes to you (preaching)
and does not bring this doctrine
do not give him a greeting neither
let him into your house lest you be partaker of his evil deeds"

2 John 1:9-11

"If any man preaches otherwise and consents not to wholesome
words, even to the words of our Lord Jesus Christ,
and to the doctrine that is according to godliness
he is proud knowing nothing"
1 Timothy 6:3-4

 

"I am the vine you are the branches"
John 15:5

"and if some of the branches be broken off
and you being a wild olive tree were grafted in.
Boast not against the branches...

"Because of disobedience they were broken off,
and thou stands by faith. Be not high minded but fear.
Because if God spared not the natural branches
take heed lest He also spare not you."

Romans 11:17-20

"If a man does not abide in me,
he is cast forth as a branch,
and is withered;
and men gather them and they are burned"
John 15:6

"If you keep my commandments,
you shall abide in my love"
John 15:10

 

"You have been bought with a price
therefore glorify God in your body and in you spirit,
which are Gods"
1 Corinthians 6:20

"Christ died for all that they which live
should henceforth not live unto themselves
but unto Him that died for them and rose again"
2 Corinthians 5:15

"And they that belong to Christ have crucified
the flesh with its passions and lusts"
Galatians 5:24

 

"I am Alpha and Omega the beginning and the end,
the first and the last"
"Blessed are they that keep the commands of Jesus,
that they may have right to the tree of life
and may enter through the gates into the city...."
"I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify these 
things in the Churches"

Revelation 22:13-16

 

[FreeGrace]

1 hour ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

"My sheep hear my voice, I know them and they follow me
and I give unto them (that hear my voice and follow me)
eternal life, and they (that hear my voice and follow me) shall never perish,
neither shall any pluck them (that hear my voice and follow me)
out of my hand" John 10:27-28

"I say unto you that hear, love...." Luke 6:27

"And if you love me, keep my commandments"
John 14:15

"This is my commandment, that you love one another"
John 15:12

"Judas said to Him, not Iscariot,
Lord, how is it that you will reveal yourselves to us and not to the world?"
And Jesus said, If any man loves me, he will keep my words:
and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him,
and make our abode with him"
John 14:22-23

"You disciples go out into all the world and teach all nations,
baptizing  them in them in the name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost,
teaching them to observe all of my words"
Matthew 28:19-20

"He that does not love me, does not keep my sayings"
John 14:24

"was Paul crucified for you?
Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?"
1 Corinthians 1:13

"If anyone does not love the Lord Jesus Christ,
let that person be Anathema! Oh Lord Come!"
1 Corinthians 16:22

 

"In conclusion treat people the way you would
want to be treated, for this is the law and the prophets.....
And they were astonished at His doctrine
for He taught as one with authority and not as the scribes"
Matthew 7:12, 28

"If anyone transgresses (disobeys the Torah 1 John 3:4)
and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ,
they do not have God. Whoever abides in the doctrine of Christ
has both the Father and the Son.
If anyone comes to you (preaching)
and does not bring this doctrine
do not give him a greeting neither
let him into your house lest you be partaker of his evil deeds"

2 John 1:9-11

"If any man preaches otherwise and consents not to wholesome
words, even to the words of our Lord Jesus Christ,
and to the doctrine that is according to godliness
he is proud knowing nothing"
1 Timothy 6:3-4

 

"I am the vine you are the branches"
John 15:5

"and if some of the branches be broken off
and you being a wild olive tree were grafted in.
Boast not against the branches...

"Because of disobedience they were broken off,
and thou stands by faith. Be not high minded but fear.
Because if God spared not the natural branches
take heed lest He also spare not you."

Romans 11:17-20

"If a man does not abide in me,
he is cast forth as a branch,
and is withered;
and men gather them and they are burned"
John 15:6

"If you keep my commandments,
you shall abide in my love"
John 15:10

 

"You have been bought with a price
therefore glorify God in your body and in you spirit,
which are Gods"
1 Corinthians 6:20

"Christ died for all that they which live
should henceforth not live unto themselves
but unto Him that died for them and rose again"
2 Corinthians 5:15

"And they that belong to Christ have crucified
the flesh with its passions and lusts"
Galatians 5:24

"I am Alpha and Omega the beginning and the end,
the first and the last"
"Blessed are they that keep the commands of Jesus,
that they may have right to the tree of life
and may enter through the gates into the city...."
"I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify these 
things in the Churches"

Revelation 22:13-16

I asked a simple question and you responded with many verses, but you didn't address my question.  I know what the Bible says but your posts highly suggest that you believe that salvation can be removed, revoked, forfeited, lost, or what ever word you may be thinking of that means someone who has believed can still end up in the lake of fire.

So, do you believe that Jesus gives the believer eternal life WHEN they believe?

It's real simple:  either yes or no.

[Desopixi Seilynam]

8 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

So, do you believe that Jesus gives the believer eternal life WHEN they believe?

Jesus gives His sheep eternal life.  

Jesus' sheep hear His voice (Luke 6:27-49 is a record of His actual voice)

And Jesus' sheep follow Jesus (they obey His teachings)

My sheep hear my voice, I know them
and they follow me. And I give unto them eternal life

John 10:27-28

A true "believer" will therefore hear and follow,
otherwise their faith is not genuine,
because Jesus' sheep hear and follow Jesus.

If we do not abide in the doctrine of Jesus, we do not have God.
2 John 1:9-11

If we do not love Jesus, we are Anathema, and that is, destined for destruction.
1 Corinthians 16:22

Love for Jesus is shown by obedience to Jesus.
John 14:15

 

[FreeGrace]

7 hours ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

  FreeGrace said:

So, do you believe that Jesus gives the believer eternal life WHEN they believe?

Jesus gives His sheep eternal life.

And who are His sheep?

7 hours ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

Jesus' sheep hear His voice (Luke 6:27-49 is a record of His actual voice)

And Jesus' sheep follow Jesus (they obey His teachings)

My sheep hear my voice, I know them
and they follow me. And I give unto them eternal life

John 10:27-28

It seems you understand v.27 as HOW one becomes a sheep of Jesus?  Yes?  No?  But there are no conditions in v.27 on HOW to become a sheep.

The condition for possessing eternal life is found in John 5:24 - Very truly I tell you, whoever hears (present tense) my word and believes (present tense) him who sent me has (present tense) eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

So, in fact, one possesses eternal life when they become believers.  At that moment.

So John 10:28 is about believers who receive eternal life.  The single condition for having eternal life is to believe in Jesus Christ.

Thinking v.27 describes HOW to become one of Jesus' sheep and therefore receiving eternal life leads to the erroneous conclusion that receiving eternal life is based on "hearing and following Jesus", which is what Jesus' sheep DO.

So v.27 is a description of what Jesus' sheep DO, not about HOW to become a sheep.

7 hours ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

A true "believer" will therefore hear and follow, otherwise their faith is not genuine, because Jesus' sheep hear and follow Jesus.

In fact, v.27 is a statement of policy, or about what Jesus' sheep (believers) OUGHT to do, or SHOULD do.  It certainly isn't a statement of fact regarding all believers.

King David was a mature believer when he raped Bathsheba and had her husband murdered.  That's NOT what Jesus' sheep ought to do.  But David did.  And suffered for it by God's painful hand of discipline.

7 hours ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

If we do not abide in the doctrine of Jesus, we do not have God.
2 John 1:9-11

v.7 - I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.

v.8 - Watch out that you do not lose what we have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully.

v.9 - Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.

v.7 is about unbelievers.  v.8 is a warning about earning eternal reward for works.

v.9 is about staying in the truth.  Those who don't aren't living their lives according to what God commands.

7 hours ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

If we do not love Jesus, we are Anathema, and that is, destined for destruction.
1 Corinthians 16:22

Here is Gal 1:8,9

But though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach unto you any gospel other than that which we preached unto you, let him be anathema. As we have said before, so say I now again, If any man preacheth unto you any gospel other than that which ye received, let him be anathema.

This is Paul's attitude toward false teaching.  It's not a dogmatic doctrinal statement about the soul condition of such a person.

1 Cor 16:22 - If any man loveth not the Lord, let him be anathema.

Same principle here.  Paul isn't saying they ARE destined for the lake of fire.  He is saying they ARE destined for God's discipline which may lead to physical death, just as 1 Cor 5:5 and 11:30 clearly teach.

7 hours ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

Love for Jesus is shown by obedience to Jesus.
John 14:15

Yes it is.  But receiving eternal life is based on faith in Him.  And all believers are commanded to love God and Jesus.  That is not for salvation.

[enoob57]

It is not rocket science... If we fill our hearts with His Word and it is truth to us, (believed), we will live in the precepts that are within it... thus we will contain the living oracles of His Word in our being
Matthew 24:35 (KJV)

[35] Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

[Desopixi Seilynam]

On 9/1/2024 at 2:51 PM, FreeGrace said:

The single condition for having eternal life is to believe in Jesus Christ.

hears my word and believes on Him that sent me

John 5:24

The condition is hearing His word and believing on Him that sent.

And He is talking about His word, not words about Him,
but His own actual teachings.

John 10:27 describes who believers are, their state of being.

My sheep hear my voice, I know them, and they follow me
and I give unto them eternal life

Nothing is said about how, but rather who.

If one is really a sheep, then that one hears and follows, period.

I say unto you that hear, love

Luke 6:27

[FreeGrace]

1 hour ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

FreeGrace said:

The single condition for having eternal life is to believe in Jesus Christ.

hears my word and believes on Him that sent me

John 5:24

The condition is hearing His word and believing on Him that sent.

Of course one MUST hear before they can believe.  Or else, how can one believe the gospel if they haven't heard it first??

1 hour ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

John 10:27 describes who believers are, their state of being.

My sheep hear my voice, I know them, and they follow me
and I give unto them eternal life

No, v.27 describes what believers DO, or should be doing.  If it was about a "state of being", then there would be no need of all the warnings, admonitions, and commands in the Bible about how to live.  It would be automatic, which it isn't.

I'm curious as to why you seem to think so?

1 hour ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

Nothing is said about how, but rather who.

Right.  v.27 is about doing, now how to be a sheep.  That is directly addressed in John 3:15,16, 5:24, 6:40, 47.  It's all about believing and receiving eternal life.

1 hour ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

If one is really a sheep, then that one hears and follows, period.

This assumption/opinion is not found in the Bible.  As I've shown.

1 hour ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

I say unto you that hear, love

Luke 6:27

Yes, every believer should love the Lord who saved them.  And we are commanded to love Him.  But that doesn't save us.  The command is to those who ARE already saved.