Warning: Don't be caught sleeping when the "Thief" comes!

[Marilyn C]

Just now, NConly said:

Can you tell me where to read about the 7 year final chastisement?

Yes. Daniel 9: 24 concerning the 70 x 7 `weeks` of years. 483 have been before the cross and thus 7 to be fulfilled. (Dan. 9: 25 - 27)

[Marilyn C]

53 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

Since when was Israel "servants"? Are they not "enemies"?

 

You see what happens when you go down the wrong road?

`O seed of Israel His servant, you children of Jacob, His chosen ones!.` (1 Chron. 16: 13)

`But you, Israel, are my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the descendants of Abraham My friend.` (Isa. 41: 8)

`Remember these, O Jacob, and Israel, for you are My servant; I have formed you, you are My servant; O Israel, you will not be forgotten by Me.` (Isa. 44: 21)

`He has helped His servant Israel, in remembrance of His mercy, as He spoke to our fathers, to Abraham and to His seed forever."` (Luke 1: 54 & 55) 

I think you are on the wrong road!

[Thomas2]

9 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

`O seed of Israel His servant, you children of Jacob, His chosen ones!.` (1 Chron. 16: 13)

`But you, Israel, are my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the descendants of Abraham My friend.` (Isa. 41: 8)

`Remember these, O Jacob, and Israel, for you are My servant; I have formed you, you are My servant; O Israel, you will not be forgotten by Me.` (Isa. 44: 21)

`He has helped His servant Israel, in remembrance of His mercy, as He spoke to our fathers, to Abraham and to His seed forever."` (Luke 1: 54 & 55) 

I think you are on the wrong road!

Do you notice the actions of servants, or of enemies, is it difficult to see a difference and to know evil from good, light from darkness.

Come forward 2000 years to now, and we see what the people of Israel do, the very same they did to our Lord Jesus Christ.

How could more wrath be filled up by Israel, what would you suggest could be done to add to the uttermost..

 

Matthew 27:24 When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it.
25 Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.

Acts 13:45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.
46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

1 Thessalonians 2:14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:
15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:
16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.

[Thomas2]

We are caught sleeping by the many false prophet teachers,. what else do you think catches the word and the forum is here for that purpose, except that it has a little warning, the same as our Lord Jesus Christ warned us.

 

Matthew 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

[AdHoc]

13 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

`O seed of Israel His servant, you children of Jacob, His chosen ones!.` (1 Chron. 16: 13)

`But you, Israel, are my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the descendants of Abraham My friend.` (Isa. 41: 8)

`Remember these, O Jacob, and Israel, for you are My servant; I have formed you, you are My servant; O Israel, you will not be forgotten by Me.` (Isa. 44: 21)

`He has helped His servant Israel, in remembrance of His mercy, as He spoke to our fathers, to Abraham and to His seed forever."` (Luke 1: 54 & 55) 

I think you are on the wrong road!

Yes. I'm on the wrong road. You take a prophecy from the end of our age and support it with random quotes from Isaiah. If you are happy to do this, why, we can annul man's evil by quoting that "God saw that it was very good" from Genesis 1.

What a way to debate. I'm surely on the wrong road. What a pity your Bible does not contain Romans 11:28;

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

They are enemies in this age and are only "beloved" for the fathers Abraham, Isaac and Jacob's sake - not even for themselves. And you knew what you were doing because you completely ignored by query how an enemy would be given rule over God's Household. My ... my

[AdHoc]

4 hours ago, Thomas2 said:

Do you notice the actions of servants, or of enemies, is it difficult to see a difference and to know evil from good, light from darkness.

Come forward 2000 years to now, and we see what the people of Israel do, the very same they did to our Lord Jesus Christ.

How could more wrath be filled up by Israel, what would you suggest could be done to add to the uttermost..

 

Matthew 27:24 When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it.
25 Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.

Acts 13:45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.
46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

1 Thessalonians 2:14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:
15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:
16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.

 

4 hours ago, Thomas2 said:

We are caught sleeping by the many false prophet teachers,. what else do you think catches the word and the forum is here for that purpose, except that it has a little warning, the same as our Lord Jesus Christ warned us.

 

Matthew 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Well said my friend. It is a sad day when Church members must use these tactics. Imagine calling Israel "servants" when they were guilty of such conspiracy. And their darkest hour is yet to come as they choose the Beast to sit in their Temple (2nd Thess.2:1-4)

[Mr. M]

14 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

`O seed of Israel His servant, you children of Jacob, His chosen ones!.` (1 Chron. 16: 13)

`But you, Israel, are my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the descendants of Abraham My friend.` (Isa. 41: 8)

`Remember these, O Jacob, and Israel, for you are My servant; I have formed you, you are My servant; O Israel, you will not be forgotten by Me.` (Isa. 44: 21)

`He has helped His servant Israel, in remembrance of His mercy, as He spoke to our fathers, to Abraham and to His seed forever."` (Luke 1: 54 & 55) 

I think you are on the wrong road!

Just out of curiosity...

Do you think the scriptures are identifying Israel

as the servant of God, or are the proven servants

of God identified as the Israel of God?

Galatians 6:

15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision

nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation.

16 And as many as walk according to this rule,

peace and mercy be upon them,

and upon the Israel of God.

Only a few are identified my name:

Moses, the Lord's servant.

David, the Lord's servant.

Elijah, the Lord's servant.

Christ the servant who fulfills

the Law and the prophets.

And those who serve in Christ...

Paulos doulos

Edited September 8, 2024 by Mr. M

[farouk]

On 9/7/2024 at 8:03 AM, Thomas2 said:

Israel and the Gentiles are one in Christ, its empty to think otherwise, as the apostles are the first followers and Paul, Jews.

Salvation is not different for anyone, it is in believing that Jesus Christ died and rose again the third day for our sins.

The day of the Lord comes unawares by all who do not walk in the light of life, as Jesus Christ is our light of life.

Jesus did not continue to be stuck in discussion with the Pharisees, they reason and dispute until now, but Christ left off from that vain conversation, because He told them plainly, if they do not believe that He is He, they shall die in their sins.

Not only is dispute worthless, it is also denial of the Lord Jesus Christ rising, as that alone is what saves us from vanity and pride.

2000 years of dispute is ending soon, why not break it off slightly before the time is up.

Hi @Thomas2 1 Corinthians 10.32 makes it clear that there is a distinction between Jews, Gentiles and the church of God.

cc @NConly

Edited September 9, 2024 by farouk

[Cntrysner]

On 9/7/2024 at 6:55 PM, AdHoc said:

Okay. I don't mind discussing but in a previous posting I gave certain arguments that we re simply ignored. One was that spirits can't die. Let's make it easier. Just show me two verses that sa that spirits die and two spirits that died.

If that proves to be impossible, then show me two humans that went to heaven dead.

I apologize … did not intend to ignore your arguments, restate them if necessary.    

I never said that spirits die and agree that they don‘t, you may be referring to my use of  “spiritually died”. It is the process of surrendering our spirit, will, power and emotion to the Spirit that dwells in us… born again by the Spirit into eternal life, never die. 
 

On 9/7/2024 at 6:55 PM, AdHoc said:

Please explain how you can DIE naturally but not DIE?

Natural death of the flesh is a given, it will return to dust. Christ’s body of flesh died yet He by the Spirit was still fully functional ..alive… when he descended.  We have Christ dead in the flesh and outside of His flesh body but not dead in the eternal Spirit and it is a pattern that believers will follow yet we will not descend in death, He paid that price for us, we will ascended to Him who is seated at the right hand of God. 
1Pe 3:18  For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 
1Pe 3:19  By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 

The only other option at death of the flesh is to descend and wait to be resurrected and in the flesh.
 
Heb 9:27  And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Rom 5:12  Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: 
But not die….
Eternal live is by the Spirit and it can not die, it is gift of God. His Spirit indwells us and circumcises us from the flesh body (Col 2:11). We become a new creature not of the flesh but of the Spirit.
Heb 6:1  Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 
Heb 6:2  Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 

Heb 6:3  And this will we do, if God permit. 
2Co 5:16  Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. 
2Co 5:17  Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Joh 11:26  And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?  

On 9/7/2024 at 6:55 PM, AdHoc said:

You use John 11:26 to show that we do not die. here is the text:

23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. 24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. 25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?  (Jn.11:23–26).

Christ said He is both the resurrection and the life…two different truths and both not necessarily applied to Lazarus at that time. 

“the resurrection“…he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 
“and the life”…And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
 

On 9/7/2024 at 6:55 PM, AdHoc said:

Jesus said that Lazarus was dead.
Martha said Lazarus was dead
The witnesses said he had been dead for over 3 days
Jesus said that Lazarus would rise again (future tense) "AT THE LAST DAY".

True

On 9/7/2024 at 6:55 PM, AdHoc said:

You say that he was already risen and in heaven.

Not true.

On 9/7/2024 at 6:55 PM, AdHoc said:

Jesus said that that believers die but "YET shall live". This means that they are really dead

True, their flesh body is dead.

On 9/7/2024 at 6:55 PM, AdHoc said:

Jesus said "whosoever LIVETH". He is talking about the LIVING when the last day comes.

Negative, you are mixing two truths together. Resurrection of the dead is for judgment at the last day. Whosoever liveth is in the present yet Lazarus was dead therefore it cannot apply to Lazarus. “Believeth in me”, what must one believe to have eternal life and never die? Show me with scripture that Lazarus believed it. At this point Christ had not suffered the cross, do you believe the gospel was revealed progressively?

On 9/7/2024 at 6:55 PM, AdHoc said:

That he will never die is guaranteed by 1st Corinthians 15:50-53. You quoted it yourself. Thia also agrees with 1st Thessalonians 4:13-17. There, the dead RISE. How could they if they were in heaven? Then TOGETHER with the living they are "caught away" TO MEET THE LORD. You have them already in His company.

You need to prove with scripture that Lazarus was a member of the Body of Christ. All those before the cross had to wait in death…

Heb 9:15  And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. 
Heb 9:16  For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 
Heb 9:17  For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. 
 

On 9/7/2024 at 6:55 PM, AdHoc said:

What about David in Acts 2. He is still in his grave. His soul is in Hades. He has NOT ascended to heaven!

His body is in the grave, and will likely take part in the resurrection of the dead.
 

On 9/7/2024 at 6:55 PM, AdHoc said:

What about 1st corinthians 15:22-23. Who then is raised "WHEN HE COMES"?

In the clouds…those that are alive and remain both physically and Spiritually.  I believe at rapture we will be separated from the physical body as Christ was and quickened by the Spirit. 

1Co 15:22  For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 
1Co 15:23  But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 

[AdHoc]

11 hours ago, Cntrysner said:

I apologize … did not intend to ignore your arguments, restate them if necessary.    

I never said that spirits die and agree that they don‘t, you may be referring to my use of  “spiritually died”. It is the process of surrendering our spirit, will, power and emotion to the Spirit that dwells in us… born again by the Spirit into eternal life, never die. 
 

Natural death of the flesh is a given, it will return to dust. Christ’s body of flesh died yet He by the Spirit was still fully functional ..alive… when he descended.  We have Christ dead in the flesh and outside of His flesh body but not dead in the eternal Spirit and it is a pattern that believers will follow yet we will not descend in death, He paid that price for us, we will ascended to Him who is seated at the right hand of God. 
1Pe 3:18  For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 
1Pe 3:19  By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 

The only other option at death of the flesh is to descend and wait to be resurrected and in the flesh.
 
Heb 9:27  And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Rom 5:12  Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: 
But not die….
Eternal live is by the Spirit and it can not die, it is gift of God. His Spirit indwells us and circumcises us from the flesh body (Col 2:11). We become a new creature not of the flesh but of the Spirit.
Heb 6:1  Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 
Heb 6:2  Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 

Heb 6:3  And this will we do, if God permit. 
2Co 5:16  Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. 
2Co 5:17  Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Joh 11:26  And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?  

Christ said He is both the resurrection and the life…two different truths and both not necessarily applied to Lazarus at that time. 

“the resurrection“…he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 
“and the life”…And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
 

True

Not true.

True, their flesh body is dead.

Negative, you are mixing two truths together. Resurrection of the dead is for judgment at the last day. Whosoever liveth is in the present yet Lazarus was dead therefore it cannot apply to Lazarus. “Believeth in me”, what must one believe to have eternal life and never die? Show me with scripture that Lazarus believed it. At this point Christ had not suffered the cross, do you believe the gospel was revealed progressively?

You need to prove with scripture that Lazarus was a member of the Body of Christ. All those before the cross had to wait in death…

Heb 9:15  And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. 
Heb 9:16  For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 
Heb 9:17  For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. 
 

His body is in the grave, and will likely take part in the resurrection of the dead.
 

In the clouds…those that are alive and remain both physically and Spiritually.  I believe at rapture we will be separated from the physical body as Christ was and quickened by the Spirit. 

1Co 15:22  For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 
1Co 15:23  But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 

Thank you very much for your answer. I have read it and noted it.