For us, every day is the Sabbath

[PATrobas]

3 hours ago, Cntrysner said:

1Jn 3:9  Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Correct. It is the NEW man that cannot sin. The OLD man died at the cross and when we were born again we became a new man. Old things passed away 2 Cor. 5:17. This is how God sees us; in Christ.  The problem arises when we walk according the flesh which we still carry around until the resurrection of our bodies, when we will be changed and will finally be like Him without our sinful flesh. Though our old man is dead, the old nature still hangs around and that is where our battle lies, between the flesh (old nature) and the spirit. Gal. 5:16 The verse you quote is often misinterpreted as "...does not practice sin..." but it says does not "...commit.." My flesh practices sin all the time. It is all it does, and all it can do, sin. But because I have a new nature now, I don't want to walk in sins anymore, thus the battle ensues. Jesus cannot sin. I am in Jesus. I cannot sin (as a member of the body of Christ.) I'm not talking of sinless perfection as some do. Before John stated that verse (3:9) he said, "1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. :9  If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. :10  If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us." So, to understand this we have to correctly "rightly divide the Word of truth" and separate our 'position' in Christ from our 'experience,' until our sanctification is complete and we are fully "conformed to the image of Christ" as we are predestined to.

[Neighbor]

1 hour ago, Ray12614 said:

Interesting article.

BTW: I will be working on Monday because evidently farmers don't take holidays . . . LOL

LOL  Privilege of being an overseer/ commander; feed the troops first. 

[AdHoc]

On 8/31/2024 at 9:26 PM, PATrobas said:

OK, fair enough on definitions, however, Israel didn't enter in because of UNBELIEF (same word as disobedience) Heb.3:18-19 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? :19  So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

The three scriptures you cite are not about believers. They are speaking about those who have never been born again. Believers are Righteous. We have the Righteousness of Christ. Imputed by faith. But look closely below. "...the unrighteous..."

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,:10  Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God :11  And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

It is no accident that Paul refers to those who are born again as 'Saints.' We are no longer drunkards, thieves, etc. We are no longer 'sinners saved by grace' but saints. We were sinners, but now we are Holy (called so by God) We may occasionally fall in those sins but we (if born again) are no longer characterized by those things. A truth not emphasized enough is Romans 5. Mankind is condemned NOT by what he does, but by who he is in; i.e. ADAM. When we were conceived we received the nature of our father Adam, thus were condemned because of his sin. 1 Cor.15:21-22 For since by man [Adam] came death, by man [Jesus] came also the resurrection of the dead. :22  For as in Adam all die,   Rom 5:18  Therefore as by the offense of one [Adam] judgement came upon all men to condemnation;

A man commits sins because he is in Adam and has his nature, and his condemnation is because he is 'in' him.

But as soon as we by faith are born from above, we receive a new nature [God's] from a new Father [God] and receive the righteousness of His Son, Jesus. Thus we now do righteousness [good works] because we are in Christ and have His nature.

We will no longer be judged for sins because Christ was judged for the sins of the world. We will be judged for our works (as will all men). Our judgement for our works will be at the Bema seat of Christ. Unbelievers at the great white throne.

Since all men's sins are paid for, the difference between us and an unsaved person is that we have eternal life by faith in the Gospel and they are still dead (abiding) in their sins. They have no life. They don't realize their sins have been paid for, they haven't submitted to Jesus and obeyed the Gospel. They are dead.

So, to conclude, Heb. 11:6  But without faith it is impossible to please him:

Faith always produces good works.

We live by faith and good works follow us.

Our entrance into the Kingdom is by faith in the Gospel. Our inheritance (or lack thereof) is according to our works. Blessings.

Okay. You have built a case on half the story. A Christian has TWO righteousnesses. (1) The righteousness imputed to Him by believing in Christ's work. It is called "the righteousness of God" (e.g. Phil.3:9). (2) The result of obeying God. It is called "YOUR righteousness" (Matt.5:20), or, "the righteousness of the saints" (Rev.19:8). The first is established by Christ and taken over by God to impute a standard of righteousness that can never be achieved by the saint. It is imputed for (i) God to put away sins, (ii) God to dwell IN a man, and (iii) God to have audience with a fallen man. The second is to establish if the man will carry out the will of God. For the Kingdom a man must have HIS righteosness.

Let us put to test your understanding of  1st Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:21 and Ephesians 5:5. Here is who they were written to;

1 Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother, 2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours: (1 Co 1:1–2.)

2 And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia: (Ga 1:2).

1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus: (Eph 1:1.)

I'm sure you will agree that there is no mistake in who are recipients of these warnings.

But let us apply your argument to then to Moses. You say that he was in "Unbelief", but Hebrews 3:2, 5 & Chapter 11 establish his faith. You have him as an unbelieving infidel who was never born again. How so then is he in the Kingdom in Matthew 17? Is not John 3:3 emphatic? You MUST be born again to enter the Kingdom! Why is his body fought for in Jude? Was he not banned from the inheritance for what HE DID?

You brought up the argument of the meaning of UNBELIEF in Hebrews 3:19, but stopped short. The word means; "unable to be convinced". But more than this, the grammar gives unbelief as the reason why they DISOBEYED and MURMURED. If you go back to Numbers 14:22 the reason given is that they "have not hearkened to my voice" - a WORK. They are accused of MURMURING - a work. They are accused of "tempting the Lord ten times" - works

The rich man in Matthew 19 calls Him Lord and "good" and the gospel of Mark says that Jesus loved him. But he will not enter the Kingdom for failing to sell all and follow the lord - works

[AdHoc]

8 hours ago, PATrobas said:

Correct. It is the NEW man that cannot sin. The OLD man died at the cross and when we were born again we became a new man. Old things passed away 2 Cor. 5:17. This is how God sees us; in Christ.  The problem arises when we walk according the flesh which we still carry around until the resurrection of our bodies, when we will be changed and will finally be like Him without our sinful flesh. Though our old man is dead, the old nature still hangs around and that is where our battle lies, between the flesh (old nature) and the spirit. Gal. 5:16 The verse you quote is often misinterpreted as "...does not practice sin..." but it says does not "...commit.." My flesh practices sin all the time. It is all it does, and all it can do, sin. But because I have a new nature now, I don't want to walk in sins anymore, thus the battle ensues. Jesus cannot sin. I am in Jesus. I cannot sin (as a member of the body of Christ.) I'm not talking of sinless perfection as some do. Before John stated that verse (3:9) he said, "1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. :9  If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. :10  If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us." So, to understand this we have to correctly "rightly divide the Word of truth" and separate our 'position' in Christ from our 'experience,' until our sanctification is complete and we are fully "conformed to the image of Christ" as we are predestined to.

Brother, read this again and ask yourself if it makes sense. You have scripture that says we are liars if we say that we do not sin and scripture says that which is born of God does not sin. These are immutable statements. They do not have to be rightly divided. You have stated in a previous posting that sinners in Corinth, Galatia and Ephesus were not even Christians. Is the answer not so simple? John 3:6 says that which is born is the human spirit ONLY. A man still possesses flesh and a soul, but these are not born of God and wage war against the spirit (Gal.5.17). The spirit is the Holy of Holies of a Christian and is occupied by God. That is why the "BROTHER" of 1st Corinthians 5 is to be killed - to spare the spirit because sexual sins are WITHIN the body?

[Sower]

50 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

A Christian has TWO righteousnesses. (1) The righteousness imputed to Him by believing in Christ's work. It is called "the righteousness of God" (e.g. Phil.3:9). (2) The result of obeying God. It is called "YOUR righteousness" (Matt.5:20), or, "the righteousness of the saints" (Rev.19:8). The first is established by Christ and taken over by God to impute a standard of righteousness that can never be achieved by the saint. It is imputed for (i) God to put away sins, (ii) God to dwell IN a man, and (iii) God to have audience with a fallen man. The second is to establish if the man will carry out the will of God. For the Kingdom a man must have HIS righteosness.

I have always been troubled by others when saying, we can 'do the right thing, our righteousness.' Christ enables us, we chose.
I give them the verse in 1 John 3:7 but am always told that is God's righteousness not ours.

"Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous"

Many were called righteous in the scriptures. The Bible defines “righteousness” as simply doing that which is right (1 John 3:7-10; Acts 10:35).  You are the first one I have heard saying we have our own righteousness apart from the righteousness of Christ that was needed for the perfect sacrifice for our forgiveness, and salvation. Personal righteousness, as a believer, due to HIS righteousness.

Thanks AdHoc...

(The Judgement seat of Christ will reveal our works, whether we were doing the right thing, or for our own selfish glory)

[PATrobas]

Consider this: Isa 64:6  But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags;

Php 3:8  Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, :9  And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, (OR BY WORKS ph) but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Rom 4:1  What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?:2  For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.:3  For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.:4  Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.:5  But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.:6  Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,:7  Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.:8  Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

 

Jer.23:6 ... and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

As bro, 'Sower" quotes 1 Jn3:7 we must be righteous first (having Christ's righteousness) before we can do righteousness (i.e. good works) Why? because He does the works in us! And when we do, the scriptures put them to our account and they are now our good works, even though He was the one doing them in and through us.

As I've said in other posts, Faith ALWAYS produces good works. Why? Because faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the  Word of God [rhe-ma of Christ.] Christ informs us of His will in our spirits while He provides the faith to believe Him. We make the choice to believe and then DO what He has prompted us to do. [obey]. He then does the work using us as His "tools" and the will of God is accomplished.

A good example is Matt. 14:22-33 Jesus sent the disciples to the other side of the lake, then came to them walking on the water. Being afraid, Peter cries out to Jesus, "if it be you bid me to come." [Seeking the will of God] Jesus says "Come." [revealing His will] Peter believes the Word [come] decides to obey and does what he has been trained to do since he was a baby; walk. God performs His work [walking on the water] in Peter, using Peter as His instrument to do His will.

2 hours ago, AdHoc said:

Brother, read this again and ask yourself if it makes sense. You have scripture that says we are liars if we say that we do not sin and scripture says that which is born of God does not sin. These are immutable statements. They do not have to be rightly divided. You have stated in a previous posting that sinners in Corinth, Galatia and Ephesus were not even Christians. Is the answer not so simple? John 3:6 says that which is born is the human spirit ONLY. A man still possesses flesh and a soul, but these are not born of God and wage war against the spirit (Gal.5.17). The spirit is the Holy of Holies of a Christian and is occupied by God. That is why the "BROTHER" of 1st Corinthians 5 is to be killed - to spare the spirit because sexual sins are WITHIN the body?

I'm not sure I follow. I think I agree with what you are saying here. Yes, they are immutable truths but to understand them we must rightly divide [correctly interpret] the Word. In 1 jn.1 he says 8-10 we [while still in these bodies of flesh] commit sins. In chapter 2 he says he wills that we sin not. then in chap.3 he correctly identifies that the new creature in Christ [that walks in the Spirit] cannot sin, thus if we walk in the Spirit we will not fulfill the lust of the flesh. But again, I think I agree with you, but yes, this all makes perfect sense as the Spirit has given understanding. Blessings.

[Cntrysner]

12 hours ago, AdHoc said:

Brother, read this again and ask yourself if it makes sense. You have scripture that says we are liars if we say that we do not sin and scripture says that which is born of God does not sin. These are immutable statements. They do not have to be rightly divided.

The flesh desires sinful things and the soul and spirit are incapable of completely refusing all the desires of the flesh. To be acceptable to God and receive anything he has to offer we must have His righteousness, completely without sin only found in Christ. How God deals with our sin... He completely removes it by cutting away the flesh and seals us with the Spirit of promise (Eph 1:13).

Col 2:11  In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Circumcision is not by our will or works, it is the work of God in us creating the new creature which is not of the flesh thus can not sin, God rightly divided with His Word, the way God sees it.... the old man is dead with his works and resurrected to walk newness of life with the works of Christ. We groan in this body of flesh and desire to leave it and be clothed with the body of Christ. We don't look forward to resurrection of the flesh, we already have been resurrected in the flesh with Christ and if we believe it our next step in the process is to follow Christ in ascension and participate in His transfiguration into Glory.

 Col 2:12  Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. 

Heb 10:20  By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;  
2Co 3:16  Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. 
2Co 3:17  Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 
2Co 3:18  But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.  

Edited September 2, 2024 by Cntrysner

[debrakay]

At at 70, every day is a sabbath for me.  I retired in 2021, husband died in 2022, 2023 was pretty much a blur, same with most of 2024, so Labor Day means nothing to me, except I will not have to walk down to the mailbox.

Now you men can continue with your conversation regarding Labor day. 

[AdHoc]

19 hours ago, PATrobas said:

Consider this: Isa 64:6  But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags;

Php 3:8  Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, :9  And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, (OR BY WORKS ph) but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Rom 4:1  What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?:2  For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.:3  For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.:4  Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.:5  But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.:6  Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,:7  Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.:8  Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

 

Jer.23:6 ... and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

As bro, 'Sower" quotes 1 Jn3:7 we must be righteous first (having Christ's righteousness) before we can do righteousness (i.e. good works) Why? because He does the works in us! And when we do, the scriptures put them to our account and they are now our good works, even though He was the one doing them in and through us.

As I've said in other posts, Faith ALWAYS produces good works. Why? Because faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the  Word of God [rhe-ma of Christ.] Christ informs us of His will in our spirits while He provides the faith to believe Him. We make the choice to believe and then DO what He has prompted us to do. [obey]. He then does the work using us as His "tools" and the will of God is accomplished.

A good example is Matt. 14:22-33 Jesus sent the disciples to the other side of the lake, then came to them walking on the water. Being afraid, Peter cries out to Jesus, "if it be you bid me to come." [Seeking the will of God] Jesus says "Come." [revealing His will] Peter believes the Word [come] decides to obey and does what he has been trained to do since he was a baby; walk. God performs His work [walking on the water] in Peter, using Peter as His instrument to do His will.

I'm not sure I follow. I think I agree with what you are saying here. Yes, they are immutable truths but to understand them we must rightly divide [correctly interpret] the Word. In 1 jn.1 he says 8-10 we [while still in these bodies of flesh] commit sins. In chapter 2 he says he wills that we sin not. then in chap.3 he correctly identifies that the new creature in Christ [that walks in the Spirit] cannot sin, thus if we walk in the Spirit we will not fulfill the lust of the flesh. But again, I think I agree with you, but yes, this all makes perfect sense as the Spirit has given understanding. Blessings.

I think we are drawing closer. Perhaps an example will help.

A "garment" in parable is one's works (Rev.19:7-8). So the carefully crafted ephod of Aaron is not his. he did not make it. But he has a very specific day when he may put it on. It is the Day of Atonement and it is to cover his nakedness with a garment up to God's standard. When Aaron dies his successor will not take this garment to swim in, to play tennis in or to sleep in. It is made for one thing - that he survivve the audience witha most Holy God on the Day of Atonement.

After leaving the Holy of Holies Aron strips off the Ephod and pt on HIS garment - a shirt ans skirt of pure Egyptian cotton. But alas .... in the making of this garment Aaron accidentally mixed some wool and about 2% of the garment is wool. He is struck dead. He broke Leviticus 19:19 and Deuteronomy 22:11. How is it that Aaron can survive a fearsome and dangerous God in the place between the Cherubim, but 15 minutes later he is dead over some wool. But suppose Aaron liked his mixed garment and, knowing that it was UNRIGHTEOUS to wear it, put on the Ephod t protect himself. Would he survive?

He would not survive because the Ephod is for another occasion. No provision is made for the Ephod to protect anybody outside of the Holy of Holies. For all its beauty the Ephod is not made for battle either.

In the Holy of Holies no other garment is effective in putting Aaron on the right sanding before God.

In his daily life it is not the Ephod which keeps him alive but adhering to the Law of Moses.

In Numbers 20 Aaron dies. What happened? His garments were not enough to stop God exacting retribution for Meribah. He did nothing wrong in the Holy of Holies, but in his daily life he angered God and was judged. The garment made by another saved him. His own garment failed. How come Caleb did not die in the wilderness? He had no Ephod, but he DID that which was pleasing to God.

[Bruce_Leiter]

I am working today to fulfill the name of the holiday, fellow believers! The early church, because of the new covenant that Jesus instituted in the Lord's Supper, changed the day of rest and worship to Sunday. It is those two principles I see in the Scriptures about the Sabbath that continue into the new covenant. In my retirement from full-time ministry in churches, God has given me both Internet and book ministries, from which I rest on Sundays. May the God of the Bible bless you! Bruce_Leiter.