soul & spirit

[Jean Beck]

The soul and the spirit are connected, but separable (Hebrews 4:12). The soul is the essence of humanity’s being; it is who we are. The spirit is the immaterial part of humanity that connects with God.

[Neighbor]

Hi,  I find myself asking when I read of that; separable by whom or to what purpose? Seems to me the passage is stating that Jesus, and only Jesus, has the ability (like no other entity) to see and split  the very soul and spirit of all beings that have spirit and soul.

And for what  good purpose of God but in order to discern the truth of one's heart regarding belief on Him ( Jesus) as Lord, God, and personal savior.

[missmuffet]

9 hours ago, Jean Beck said:

The soul and the spirit are connected, but separable (Hebrews 4:12). The soul is the essence of humanity’s being; it is who we are. The spirit is the immaterial part of humanity that connects with God.

It looks like you are right. And welcome to Worthy. It is nice to have you with us.

The soul and the spirit are the two primary immaterial parts ascribed to humanity in Scripture. Discerning the precise differences between the two can be confusing. The word spirit refers only to the immaterial facet of humanity. Human beings have a spirit, but we are not spirits. However, in Scripture, only believers are said to be spiritually alive (1 Corinthians 2:11; Hebrews 4:12; James 2:26); unbelievers are spiritually dead (Ephesians 2:1–5; Colossians 2:13). In Paul’s writing, the spiritual is pivotal to the life of the believer (1 Corinthians 2:14; 3:1; Ephesians 1:3; 5:19; Colossians 1:9; 3:16). The spirit is the element in humanity that gives us the ability to have an intimate relationship with God. The word spirit refers to the immaterial part of humanity that “connects” with God, who Himself is spirit (John 4:24).

Edited October 18, 2024 by missmuffet

[AdHoc]

10 hours ago, Jean Beck said:

The soul and the spirit are connected, but separable (Hebrews 4:12). The soul is the essence of humanity’s being; it is who we are. The spirit is the immaterial part of humanity that connects with God.

Hello and welcome.

I agree with your assessment, but go further. According to Genesis 2:7 and 1st Thessalonians 5:23 man has three parts Body, spirit and soul. When he was made, man was a body of elements and God added His vitality The result was a third and distinct part - the soul. From that time on, man is called a "Soul" (Gen.12:5 etc.). A study of these parts shows that they make the "whole" man (1st Thess.5:23). It will show that they are sundered at death - which explains Hebrews 4:12. Our Lord Jesus sent His spirit to God, His Body was laid in a tomb and His soul went to Hades in the heart of the earth (Matt.12:40, Act.2:25-34).

The body is made of billions of parts. It returns to the elements at death.

The spirit has substance (God is a Spirit) and it is also a PLACE. In John 4 it is contrasted with two places. (See verse 24). The spirit has three parts; 1. conscience, 2. fellowship and 3. intuition. The human is constructed like the Temple/Tabernacle - 3 parts. The spirit speaks for the Holy of Holies and God dwells there in a believer (Jn.3:6). The spirit contains man's vitality. At death the spirit returns to God Who gave it (Eccl.3:21, 12:7).

The soul is the man. It is also made of three organs; 1. Mind, or thinking organ, 2. Emotions, or feeling organ, and 3. the will, or deciding organ. The soul speaks for the Holy Place where he receives Christ as Light (the Lampstand), Christ as food (the shewbread altar) and Christ as High Priest (Mediator - the altar of Incense).

Each part must be saved;
The spirit must be born a second time by the Holy Spirit
The soul must be transformed
The body must be resurrected

But, if I judge the wording of your posting, you already know some of this. Go well.

[Dennis1209]

Yes, I agree with the OP. We are triune beings consisting of body, soul, and spirit. We all know where our corrupt body goes when we die and the promise of a glorified body.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

As mentioned, in the flesh, I believe the soul and spirit are somehow connected and intertwined, possibly separated at death. As implied, the spirit is that part that ingrains us in knowing right from wrong and directly communicating with God, especially after the wall of separation was torn in twain at Jesus's death.

Our souls seem to be our individualities, like snowflakes, no two of a kind. The intent of our hearts, thoughts, preferences, talents, gifts, likes, dislikes, individual personalities, abilities, etc.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

I suspect all humanity's spirits return to the Lord at death, the saved and the lost. In Hades (hell), and the Lake of Fire, all hope is lost, the presence of God and any blessings whatsoever are wholly removed and lost forever.

As Abraham said to the Rich Man, Luke 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

I suspect those who died in their sins and are condemned, their spirits are separated from their souls, and their resurrected bodies and souls are cast into perdition (destruction) forever.

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

To communicate with God, we pray in the spirit.

1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Those condemned to Hell are not blameless; they will not be preserved.

[Neighbor]

On 10/18/2024 at 6:20 PM, missmuffet said:

The soul and the spirit are the two primary immaterial parts ascribed to humanity in Scripture. Discerning the precise differences between the two can be confusing. The word spirit refers only to the immaterial facet of humanity. Human beings have a spirit, but we are not spirits. However, in Scripture, only believers are said to be spiritually alive (1 Corinthians 2:11; Hebrews 4:12; James 2:26); unbelievers are spiritually dead (Ephesians 2:1–5; Colossians 2:13). In Paul’s writing, the spiritual is pivotal to the life of the believer (1 Corinthians 2:14; 3:1; Ephesians 1:3; 5:19; Colossians 1:9; 3:16). The spirit is the element in humanity that gives us the ability to have an intimate relationship with God. The word spirit refers to the immaterial part of humanity that “connects” with God, who Himself is spirit (John 4:24).

Credit to:  Got Questions a generally good  extra biblical resource  This subject is also at their website in a  short video format. I am also liking  Got Questions more  now, since they now give credit to their authors and presenters. It all used to  be presented  without credit to it's authorship.

[AdHoc]

On 10/19/2024 at 3:17 PM, Dennis1209 said:

Yes, I agree with the OP. We are triune beings consisting of body, soul, and spirit. We all know where our corrupt body goes when we die and the promise of a glorified body.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

As mentioned, in the flesh, I believe the soul and spirit are somehow connected and intertwined, possibly separated at death. As implied, the spirit is that part that ingrains us in knowing right from wrong and directly communicating with God, especially after the wall of separation was torn in twain at Jesus's death.

Our souls seem to be our individualities, like snowflakes, no two of a kind. The intent of our hearts, thoughts, preferences, talents, gifts, likes, dislikes, individual personalities, abilities, etc.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

I suspect all humanity's spirits return to the Lord at death, the saved and the lost. In Hades (hell), and the Lake of Fire, all hope is lost, the presence of God and any blessings whatsoever are wholly removed and lost forever.

As Abraham said to the Rich Man, Luke 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

I suspect those who died in their sins and are condemned, their spirits are separated from their souls, and their resurrected bodies and souls are cast into perdition (destruction) forever.

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

To communicate with God, we pray in the spirit.

1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Those condemned to Hell are not blameless; they will not be preserved.

As earlier posted, judgment is for those alive. But Lazarus and the rich man pose us with difficulties. Let's see if we can answer them satisfactorily. The aim is to reasonably answer why the rich man was tormented while in Hades? He called Abraham "father" so he must be a Jew and thus subject to Law. His resurrection is when Ezekiel 37 is fulfilled, and this is after the Church is raptured (Act.15:14-16, Dan.12:1-2). I propose the following.

2nd Corinthians 5:1-5 tells us that in death we are naked and "groan". Romans 8 says that in this life, and in this flesh we "groan" (v.23). That is, BOTH the rich man and Lazarus "groaned". That is why Lazarus needed to be "comforted". Remember, he should really have rejoiced if it was his body that gave him the troubles. In Hades men are sundered from their bodies, so Lazarus' physical suffering was over. Yet he needed "comfort" which the Lord seems to supply by (i) His presence and (ii) Paradise. Not so the rich man.

In 1st Corinthians 15:35-50 we are informed that just as the body is planted, so it will be raised. An unbeliever is planted in death as eartlhy and so, although he is raised with an incorruptible body, its glory is "TERRESTRIAL". In Daniel 12:2 the Jews who were planted in dishonor are raised to dishonor. My conclusion then is that if you were an enemy of God, a deep sinner, a Law-breaker, or any other factors that establishes you in dishonor, you will experience its consequences in Hades. Planted a sinner, you will carry the torment of your behavior in Hades NOT BECAUSE YOU HAVE BEEN JUDGED, but because you made yourself an enemy of God. This conclusion would of course exempt the innocent like still-born children, or those murdered by Herod's troops.

This does not mean a man can avoid judgment. Once he is resurrected, he will face either the Bema in the air, or the "Throne" on the earth. The rich man is still in Hades. He is tormented by his Law-breaking. He still has to be resurrected and face his Messiah.

The Lord has deemed the region of the dead off limits. Necromancing carried the death penalty under Law. We have relatively little information about Hades. Even Paul was forbidden to speak of Paradise. So here is a quiz question that I have not been able to answer. If Hades has Abraham's Bosom, and later Paradise, how was Abraham "gathered to his fathers" (Gen.15:15) if they were idol worshipers?

[WilliamL]

The Levels and Origins of Loves, and Their Ultimate Fulfillment

      Each of the four worlds – the three heavens and the one earth – has both a corresponding element and a corresponding love.

     The Greek language has a specific word for each of these four loves:

Eros: sexual love, the ultimate love of the flesh. Eros is earthly/physical in nature.

Storgē: familial love: the affection for one’s closest blood-relatives, and also for one’s clans, tribe, and race. Storgē is soulish/psuchikos in nature.

Philia: the love of friends that transcends soul-ties: trans-familial “brotherly love.” Philia is spiritual/pneumatikos in nature.

Agapē: all-encompassing love, Divine love, including for one’s enemies. Matt. 5:45 Agapē originates in the Holy Breath-Light of God, and is rebreathed through His children.

     The elements corresponding to these four loves are earth, water, wind/air, and fire/light.

     All of these worlds, loves and elements derive from a higher source, Divine Life, which is able at will to infill each:

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God…breathed into his [Adam’s] nostrils Breath of Life, and the man became a living soul.

     When operating in flesh, Divine Life produces fruitful (and thus fulfilled) eros; in soul, fruitful storgē; in spirit, fruitful philia; and in breath, fruitful agapē.

     To earthly flesh is given the sense of touch. To watery soul is given the closely-related fluidic senses of taste and smell. To airy spirit is given the sense of hearing. And to fiery breath-light is given the sense of sight.

     Flesh corresponds to the pinky finger. Soul, and thus storgē/familial love, whose root is marriage, corresponds to the ring finger. Spirit corresponds to the powerful middle finger. Breath-light corresponds to the pointer-of-the-way, the index finger. And the thumb, which is able to face, touch, and encompass them all, corresponds to life.

     Life (Hebrew Chayyim/ Greek Zoē) derives from and is infilled with an even higher level of Divine Love, that being Unity (Hebrew Yechidah/ Greek Henotēs), which is both the ultimate source and the ultimate purpose of God’s Divine workmanship:

Psalm 133:1 Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity.

Galatians 3:28 …you are all one in Christ.

Ephesians 4:1 I [Paul]…beseech you to walk worthy of the calling with which you were called… 3 endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace… 13 until we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a completed/fulfilled man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.

God’s people will become “completed/fulfilled” only after they are purified in all of their love-natures at the return of Christ. Only then will they be able to stand before the Divine Presence, fulfilling the Divine Plan.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1297-the-levels-and-origins-of-loves-and-their-ultimate-fulfillment/