Has the 70th week of Daniel begun?

[The Light]

On 10/27/2024 at 4:42 AM, DeighAnn said:

So, I don't believe we are currently in the last week because we are not even hearing of peace, but still hearing of wars and rumors of wars...the beginning of sorrows.




 

Do you not understand that the beginning of sorrows are the 1st 4 seals?

Also, something you should be aware of. Daniel 8 is talking about a different person than Daniel 11. There are two beasts in Revelation.

It was a great post though. Great use of scripture.

[The Light]

On 10/27/2024 at 2:12 PM, WilliamL said:

 

"Temple" is not an accurate of translation of the Greek term naos used here. Temple in Greek is heiros; naos more accurately means "a holy place or structure." That can mean, depending upon the situation, a sanctuary building; a sanctuary tent/tabernacle; or a physical location, such as the Temple Mount, or, more specifically, the very site of the original sanctuary.

It will be the buildings of the Temple as there is still one stone upon another.

On 10/27/2024 at 2:12 PM, WilliamL said:

 This appears to fulfill the Abomination of Desolation, wherein the King of the North sets himself up upon the Temple Mount, "showing himself that he is a god." Not, "proclaiming himself to be God," as so many people try to read into 2 Thes. 2.

 

Or could it be a former King of the North?

[WilliamL]

1 hour ago, The Light said:

It will be the buildings of the Temple as there is still one stone upon another.

None of Herod's temple remains. Some of the foundation wall he built does remain, but Jesus did not speak about that.

Matthew 24:1 Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”

Micah 3:12 Therefore because of you
Zion shall be plowed like a field,
Jerusalem shall become heaps of ruins,
And the mountain of the temple
Like the bare hills of the forest.

This was fulfilled when Roman Emperor Hadrian so obliterated the remains on the Temple Mount (he literally had it plowed up), so that in later generations no one was able to determine where the Temple was actually located.

[The Light]

On 10/27/2024 at 8:29 PM, DeighAnn said:

I'm a bit lost here.  You stated 'The 12 tribes of Israel were supposed to be the first fruits of the first harvest' but because they served other gods, they were not to be of 'the first harvest', they will be of a '2nd harvest'. 

The first harvest will be the grain harvest, barley and wheat. Look at the feasts of God. However, Israel was found as wild grapes.

Hosea 9

10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

The Jews cannot be the first harvest because they have not accepted Jesus as the Messiah.

On 10/27/2024 at 8:29 PM, DeighAnn said:

You state there will be 2 harvests because the fig tree has two harvests.  Is that the only reason?  Does God ever say anything like that anywhere?

The word of God continually points to two harvests.

Grain harvest, fruit harvest

One coming like the days of Noah and one coming like the days of Lot.

One coming at the trump of God or voice of God and coming at the last trump blown on the feast of trumpets.

One coming the Lord Himself comes and one coming He sends His angels.

One coming the dead in Christ rise first and one coming the dead and alive are changed in the twinkling of an eye.

On 10/27/2024 at 8:29 PM, DeighAnn said:

Doesn't the FIG represent Israel, and not the gentiles? So why would the 'gentiles' be any part of what would be two harvests for Israel?  How do they 'qualify' on the one hand but not on the other?  It always seems Israel gets all the work and tribulation and the church gets a free ride and a rapture.  

A really good question. We can only go by the Word of God. The Word shows us in Hosea 9 that the fathers of the Jews were supposed to be the first fruits of the first harvest. But since they served other Baalpeor they would not be the first harvest. This is what God says. It's His plan and we can see today that most of the 12 tribes do not accept Jesus as Messiah.

 

On 10/27/2024 at 8:29 PM, DeighAnn said:

 

Also, how can the first fruits/first harvest be 'gentiles' when we read 

1And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. 2And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, 3Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

144,000 Sealed

What you are posting is when the 144,000 become believers. In Revelation 14 we see the 144,000 are first fruits, meaning they are redeemed from the earth and are presented to the throne.

The 144,000 that become first fruits cannot happen until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

Romans 11

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

On 10/27/2024 at 8:29 PM, DeighAnn said:

How do you account for 'The Book of Remembrance' in Mal 3?

16Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name. 17And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him. 18Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.

These verses in Malachi refer to the time after the wrath of God when the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord. That happens after Armageddon. The harvests occur BEFORE the wrath of God. The wrath of God is the 7th seal and the second harvest occurs at the 6th seal.

 

Revelation 11

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

On 10/27/2024 at 8:29 PM, DeighAnn said:

How can the Word say '2 harvests' when we read

Rev 14:14  And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. 15And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. 16And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

There are two harvests in the feasts of God. The grain harvest and the fruit harvest.

Pentecost is a harvest feast. It is when the barley and wheat cakes are presented. The barley harvest happens in the spring and the wheat harvest happens at the end of summer.

Then there is the fruit harvest which happens in the fall. The Feast of Trumpets is when the fruit harvest occurs.

The verses you have quoted above is the fruit harvest which occurs at the 6th seal BEFORE the wrath of God.

Revelation 14

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

On 10/27/2024 at 8:29 PM, DeighAnn said:

EITHER the gentiles are 'grafted in' amongst the natural branches or they are not. 

Natural branches are broken off so that the Gentiles can be grafted in

On 10/27/2024 at 8:29 PM, DeighAnn said:

 

 

 

 

 




 

 

[The Light]

8 hours ago, Diaste said:

Nope. The original people of God, the Israel of God, began with the patriarchs. That hasn't changed.

Which has nothing to do with which fold believes in Jesus currently and whom the Lord will bring with Him first.

8 hours ago, Diaste said:

The Jews are a religion, not a people. The Jews are more interested in liturgy and ritual than a relationship with God. This is stark contrast to the Israel of God in the faith of Abraham. 

Romans 11

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

8 hours ago, Diaste said:

Yes, and that 1st fold is the original people of God, of the faith of Abraham, the Israel of God. The Gentiles are grafted into that group of the people of faith. The Gentiles have the sonship of adoption, grafted into the natural olive tree, the Gentiles are not a stand alone group of believers apart from the Israel of God, of the faith of Abraham, in Christ. 

Again. This has nothing to do with who sees Jesus as the Messiah first as the first fold. After the rapture of the Church Pretrib, what will the 12 tribes say?

Jeremiah 8

20 The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved.

They will know that they missed the first harvest.

8 hours ago, Diaste said:

One general gathering, the 144k are taken immediately prior to the ones that came out from within GT.

The 144,000 from the 12 tribes of Israel are the first fruits of the harvest that occurs at the 6th seal. The harvest at the 6th seal is the gathering from heaven and earth prior to the wrath of God. 

8 hours ago, Diaste said:

 

Everyone else waits till the 1000 years is over.

Pre trib rapture of the Church before the seals are opened.

Pre wrath rapture of the 12 tribes across the earth at the 6th seal.

The nation of Israel, those that flee to a place of protection, will be on earth during the wrath of God along with the unbelievers.

8 hours ago, Diaste said:

This sort of scripture doesn't mean every last person of any age that's of Israel and called a Jew. Generally, Israel and the Jews did this, not each and every man woman and child. There are always people of faith in Christ at all times, even in the backsliding of the nation of Israel.

The scripture speaks for itself.

God saw the fathers of Israel as the first fruits of the first harvest, but they served  Baalpeor. They would not be the first harvest.

Why do you think there are 144,000 first fruits in Revelation 14? Because the grain harvest or 1st harvest has happened..........pretrib.

[The Light]

1 hour ago, WilliamL said:

None of Herod's temple remains. Some of the foundation wall he built does remain, but Jesus did not speak about that.

Matthew 24:1 Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”

Micah 3:12 Therefore because of you
Zion shall be plowed like a field,
Jerusalem shall become heaps of ruins,
And the mountain of the temple
Like the bare hills of the forest.

This was fulfilled when Roman Emperor Hadrian so obliterated the remains on the Temple Mount (he literally had it plowed up), so that in later generations no one was able to determine where the Temple was actually located.

Contrary to popular opinion there is still one stone upon another.

Luke 21

5 And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,

6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

If there are not currently one stone upon another as to the buildings of the Temple, What sign was there when these things came to pass?

[WilliamL]

3 minutes ago, The Light said:

Contrary to popular opinion there is still one stone upon another.

Luke 21

5 And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,

6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

If there are not currently one stone upon another as to the buildings of the Temple, What sign was there when these things came to pass?

Matthew provides a different and more complete quote:

Matthew 24:3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, [1] when will these things be? And [2] what will be the sign of Your Parousia, and of the end of the age?”

Two different questions for two different events:

1) the destruction of the Temple in the first century AD; and

2) the Parousia of the Son of Man at the End of the Age.

Luke was not an eyewitness of the events during the time of Jesus. He relied upon second-hand testimony; and in doing so, not infrequently got the order of events wrong. That is why the sequence of events in his gospel is more helter-skelter than the historical narratives of the other three Gospel authors.

So in this case, he misunderstood the order of events. Like the other NT authors, and the general belief of the Church at that time, he presumed that the Lord would return in their days. That presumption tainted how he understood this saying of Jesus.

Both quotations of Jesus's words cannot be accurate. I believe the account of Matthew was more accurate with respect to the two questions. But his account does not record Jesus' answer to the first question, and only records what Jesus said about the End of the Age. Whereas Luke recorded more about Jesus' answer concerning the first question (the destruction of the Temple) in Luke 21:12-24.

[Diaste]

15 hours ago, The Light said:

Which has nothing to do with which fold believes in Jesus currently and whom the Lord will bring with Him first.

Abraham believed in Jesus, met Him on the plains of Mamre. Paul said being in Christ is the faith of Abraham. The Church of Jesus Christ began there, when Abraham believed God. The church didn't start with Paul, or Jesus, or in the 1st century, or at Pentecost, it began with Abraham.

15 hours ago, The Light said:

Romans 11

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Yes, until the adoption of the Gentiles into the family of God in the faith of Abraham, in Christ, is complete to God the Father's satisfaction. 

15 hours ago, The Light said:

Again. This has nothing to do with who sees Jesus as the Messiah first as the first fold. After the rapture of the Church Pretrib, what will the 12 tribes say?

Since there will be no rapture of the church pretrib, the point is moot.

15 hours ago, The Light said:

Jeremiah 8

20 The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved.

They will know that they missed the first harvest.

The 144,000 from the 12 tribes of Israel are the first fruits of the harvest that occurs at the 6th seal. The harvest at the 6th seal is the gathering from heaven and earth prior to the wrath of God. 

Rev 7 reveals who is taken, those who came out from within GT. That's one harvest with firstfruits.

15 hours ago, The Light said:

Pre trib rapture of the Church before the seals are opened.

Pre wrath rapture of the 12 tribes across the earth at the 6th seal.

That is not who scripture presents the gathering. 

15 hours ago, The Light said:

The nation of Israel, those that flee to a place of protection, will be on earth during the wrath of God along with the unbelievers.

Nope. Only a few from the city that flee to the great valley opened up when Jesus alights on the Mount of Olives.

15 hours ago, The Light said:

The scripture speaks for itself.

God saw the fathers of Israel as the first fruits of the first harvest, but they served  Baalpeor. They would not be the first harvest.

Why do you think there are 144,000 first fruits in Revelation 14? Because the grain harvest or 1st harvest has happened..........pretrib.

The 1st fruits are just the initial gathering of the main harvest. The best, or ripest, or special circumstance are gathered for unique purpose or attribute. Doesn't have to be separated by time or events. 

When we harvested the first of the small grains were always stored for planting the next year, we didn't glean the seed then wait for months to harvest, we just took the first fruit for special purpose and kept right on gathering the rest of the harvest. Thus it will be. 

[NConly]

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

18 hours ago, The Light said:

until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Yes, until the adoption of the Gentiles into the family of God

the verse The Light posted is correct at the fullness of the Gentiles  (the end of Gentile rule)

Diaste is saying ( not a verse ) at the beginning the adoption around Pentecost which does not match a verse or come from a verse 

[farouk]

7 hours ago, NConly said:

the verse The Light posted is correct at the fullness of the Gentiles  (the end of Gentile rule)

Diaste is saying ( not a verse ) at the beginning the adoption around Pentecost which does not match a verse or come from a verse 

@NConly It's always good for folk to be patient in looking for signs of fulfillment; if a passage does not relate directly to the church.