Before the Wrath

[kwikphilly]

7 hours ago, AdHoc said:

For the reader, here is the proffered text.

Ephesians 5:25–32
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Verse 30 uses the same language as Adam for Eve. In John 12:24 the many grains of wheat come out of Jesus. Israel came from the flesh. the Church came from INSIDE Christ.

Verse 32 reverses the Type. Christ and the Church are not a type of Man and Wife. They ARE the Man and Wife and Eve is the type.

In both cases the "blood" is missing. The blood has the life, but it can be absent because the Couple POSSESS ETERNAL LIFE. Israel never possess eternal life. "He came unto His own and His own RECEIVED HIM NOT!"

That's right-

Matthew Chapter 26

And for further " text" which basically the story of what Jesus PROMISES to His Disciples at the Last Supper is "Take and eat- this is my Body" etc....Just as the bride and groom in Cana would be breaking the bread and drinking from the Cup of Joy  to solidify their " union" on the day the bride Accepts the Grooms offer - here we see another thing the Galilieans would have understood immediately because of their own culture

The Wedding..... by eating from the same bread torn into pieces and drinking from the same cup it was to represent that what is in me is in you and what is in you is now in me.....What Jesus Spoke at that Last Supper was His Promise to fulfill this Covenant- to Return for His Bride---- His Body,the Church

No,not Israel

 

John 14:20

JESUS begins with " On that day...."

What day?All these Sayings of Jesus are Addressed to His Bride

[kwikphilly]

7 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

There are no scriptures from Kwik only MM. And it is a sin to keep accusing someone falsely. I`m cool but am adamant not to be accused or misaligned. 

No,there were not- Am I not to expect we all know the Scriptures of the Last Supper?I believe almost everyone here understood without proof text.....

I did not come up with this little story from doing a Bible Study where I'd go through Scripture and offer contextual proofs - If I had I would have posted in Bible Study Forum

I watched a lovely Documentary and I had no problem following the theme because I already Know God's Word -so do you

Like Jesus Would often Say " Have you not not read?"

Matt 12:3

Matt 22:5

Matt 19:4

Matt 21;42

Matt 22:31

 

 

 

 

 

 

[kwikphilly]

People do- did and will continue to interpret what they read differently than others and that is also what " Before the Wrath' mentions

It is because of the conflicting ,contrasting ' teachings',preachings and sermons where so many disagree within the churches that leads up to the Great Falling Away

Unbelievers watch and listen to endless debate and mixed Doctrine that in their eyes" Well if they can't even agree on their own religion..... "

That was the opening to this film- Christians always asking and trying to answer the WRONG questions.... Now with my own eyes I see an even bigger problem,not only the usual ' When when when" is Jesus Returning instead of WHY He IS but now a disagreement about WHO He is Coming back to " Rapture " before the Wrath

What does this say to the unbelievers of the Christian who might not feel any urgency to ' be Ready '.... Is He Coming for me?

This has turned into the exact opposite of what I Hoped for- I Hoped for Joy and Excitement in referencing some of the most beautiful,Encouraging Words Jesus Spoke to HIS DISCIPLES - yeah,that's US folks!!!As in John 16:16-16

Yes,the Wedding Promise,the New Covenant,His Promise for His Bride

"In a little while you'll see me no more and again,in a little while you shall see me,because I go to the Father"

After Jesus Rose from the dead I have no doubt Jesus Words played over and over in each of their minds and then what He Had been telling them all along was fully realized

We can also relate to our own carnal knowledge and the Awakening and opening of the Eyes of Understanding being Born Again.... The Apostles had not yet fully Received Jesus ,He Had to Leave to Send back Holy Spirit to Abide in them..... Imagine their Joy when they Received Revelation by the Power of Holy Spirit

Everyone must pray Revelation to fully Understand Living Word - Our Redeemer Lives,our Groom Preparing a place for us in Father's House

With love,in Christ,Kwik

[kwikphilly]

Many ( not a few but many) argue amongst themselves that the Church of Christ and the Body of Christ are not one in the same- another controversial matter( gee,,there are so many)

In 1 Cor 12:27 Paul addresses the Church ,Saying" YOU ARE the Body of Christ

Scripture Confirms Scripturd

Eph 1:22-23 Jesus is HEAD over all things to the CHURCH- which IS HIS Body

Eph 5:25 Husbands love your wives as Christ loves the Church

In the Book of Rdvelation - chapter 19:7-9 The MARRAIGE Supper of the Lamb is Come- His Wife made herself ready

Other references

John 3:29

Mark 2:19

Matt 25:1-3

All pointing to the  Wedding Jesus Talked about as we see throughout the Gospels..... 

And in Revelation 21:2

We see the Holy City,the new Jerusalen coming from God because a new Heaven and a new earth was made- the old passed away

The New Jerusalem are not Israel- they are both Jew and Gentile and the Childrdn of God,the Father who were Born Again ... this is a separate event and not the Rapture event where Jesus spares His Bride of Gods Wrath poured  out upon the earth but Jesus Establishing His Kingdom,the Image  primarily found in Rev   to depict the Eternal Place after the End of this world

There is one Second Coming- New Jerusaldm is not coming with Jesus to Rapture His Church... but a symbolic Imagery Representating a Decent of the Heavenly City after the Second Coming of Christ

We must Consider John's Revelation was a Vision he Described as Inspired by God to Write

With love in Christ,Kwik

 

 

[enoob57]

One of the most important hermeneutic principles of all time is
'When the plain sense makes sense seek no other sense'
Every time, when this is ignored, I see error begin and the truth of God's Word is lost!
In the discussion here the line of rightly dividing the Word have been violated by suggesting Israel of the OT is the bride of the NT... when clearly these verses apply

Galatians 3:23 (KJV)

[23] But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

[24] Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

[25] But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

[26] For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

[27] For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

[28] There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

[29] And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[kwikphilly]

9 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

One of the most important hermeneutic principles of all time is
'When the plain sense makes sense seek no other sense'
Every time, when this is ignored, I see error begin and the truth of God's Word is lost!
In the discussion here the line of rightly dividing the Word have been violated by suggesting Israel of the OT is the bride of the NT... when clearly these verses apply

Galatians 3:23 (KJV)

[23] But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

[24] Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

[25] But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

[26] For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

[27] For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

[28] There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

[29] And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

Well said Brother,thank for contributing more contextual proofs of Sound Doctrine,clearly defined

God's Promises are most often " conditional"- there are always Terms of Agreement (Covenant) which become null & void when the Agreement is breached or Terms are violated

The Old Covenant could not be kept or full filled by man's efforts ,as you mention above ,we must Rightly Divide His Word - by doing so we have that Unity of Faith in Christ Jesus,,our Head

There is but One Gospel- One Truth,only ONE

With love in Christ,Kwik

[AnOrangeCat]

18 hours ago, kwikphilly said:

I watched a wonderful documentary Titled the same as this Thread. There's do much talk here on pre,mid,post trib and imo misses the mark- so many Christians are always focusing on " when" they completely miss the entire point that is definitive JESUS- always asking the wrong question when the question every Christian should be preaching is WHY Jesus Must Return--

Date setters irreversibly damagimg the Faith,there is always heated debate over " when" with so  much dividion,controversy and conflict with the church thst the world sees as hypocrisy - Christians cannot answer " when" to the unbeliever and should be reminded of whst everyone seems to have forgotten

I feel this pretty hard. I grew up with a grandmother/mother-in-practice who was veeery into end times and took a pretrib perspective. I had a lot of exposure to various teachers who did the date setting thing. I found the topic immensely interesting and would happily read entire books on it but being exposed to it all to the point of saturation.

The thing is that it left me with a lot of anxiety. I often felt I wasn't good enough to make the rapture. If I was home alone and people were late in getting home I'd worry I'd missed the rapture. If I woke up in bed at night and heard especially loud thunder (there was a lot where I grew up!), same deal. It was a lot of tears and panic. I got this whenever one of the speculative dates approached, too.

I'm not sure when I stepped out of that phase anymore. Maybe it was when I learned about the variety of takes on the rapture, maybe not. I know my grandmother meant well but the hyper focus on end times was damaging, as was pushing it so heavily on me so early in life before I came to understand my relationship with God properly.

There is absolutely a time and a place for these things, of course. But since educating myself on the variety of perspectives and taken in their merits and flaws I've come to believe that much surrounding the end times is a mystery. It can be very interesting and serve as a point of fellowship to talk about these things and speculate, we just have to remember what we're supposed to be doing now (building up our fellow believers and reaching out to the lost as we strive to become more Christlike) and bear in mind that in the end we're just speculating. None of us truly know 100%. When we present our perspectives as if we do we absolutely risk the damaging and division you mentioned.

[kwikphilly]

15 minutes ago, AnOrangeCat said:

I feel this pretty hard. I grew up with a grandmother/mother-in-practice who was veeery into end times and took a pretrib perspective. I had a lot of exposure to various teachers who did the date setting thing. I found the topic immensely interesting and would happily read entire books on it but being exposed to it all to the point of saturation.

The thing is that it left me with a lot of anxiety. I often felt I wasn't good enough to make the rapture. If I was home alone and people were late in getting home I'd worry I'd missed the rapture. If I woke up in bed at night and heard especially loud thunder (there was a lot where I grew up!), same deal. It was a lot of tears and panic. I got this whenever one of the speculative dates approached, too.

I'm not sure when I stepped out of that phase anymore. Maybe it was when I learned about the variety of takes on the rapture, maybe not. I know my grandmother meant well but the hyper focus on end times was damaging, as was pushing it so heavily on me so early in life before I came to understand my relationship with God properly.

There is absolutely a time and a place for these things, of course. But since educating myself on the variety of perspectives and taken in their merits and flaws I've come to believe that much surrounding the end times is a mystery. It can be very interesting and serve as a point of fellowship to talk about these things and speculate, we just have to remember what we're supposed to be doing now (building up our fellow believers and reaching out to the lost as we strive to become more Christlike) and bear in mind that in the end we're just speculating. None of us truly know 100%. When we present our perspectives as if we do we absolutely risk the damaging and division you mentioned.

Wow- OC! Thank you for sharing your very personal experience suffering the damage the preachers,teachers and ministers can do in spreading the wrong Message in a very wrong way

The Gospel of Christ Jesus is Called "Good News" its the Message of a Blessed Assurance,the Guarantee,the Promise,Eternal Security,Perfection .... this Good News is for everyone,the Offer is for anyone and the Time is NOW

God Has not Given us a spirit of fear- when a Message invokes fear in the hearts and minds its not a Message of Hope in Christ.... not thst kind of fear. The fear of our Lord is Reverance,thsts not fright or terror.... I'm so Glad you heard His Still Small Voice in spite of the clamoring distractions all around you- to Seek Him with all your heart,mind and soul..❤️

Love you,appreciate you..... In His Love,Kwik

 

 

 

[BornAgain490]

9 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

There NO scriptures saying that the Body of Christ is the bride. 

Paul writing to Gentile believers at Corinth:  "For I feel a divine jealousy for you, since I betrothed you to one husband, to present you as a pure virgin to Christ."  (2 Corinthians 11:2).

Paul writing to Gentile believers at Ephesus: "Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish." (Ephesians 5:25-27).

9 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

He didn`t go `oops, I`ll have to make the church now the bride.

The Israel of God is the Body of Christ and is the total sum of all faithful Gentiles and all faithful Jews.  It was God's plan all along. 

 

9 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

God created Israel and always had a purpose for them. They will again rule the nations of the world. 

Yes, God did use Israel to bring forth the promised Seed, which is Christ Jesus. Now that Christ has come, the Israel of God are all the faithful Jews and faithful Gentiles that have received Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord. The lost Jews will perish along with lost Gentiles.  Israel will not rule, Jesus will rule as King, and the Israel of God will serve Him and rule and reign with Him.

 

10 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

The Body of Christ, however, is NOT an earthly nation but a heavenly one

This is false teaching from C. I. Scofield, Peter Ruckman, and those that teach hyperdispensationalism.  

Christ is not divided.  Christ is the head, and all the saints are His body (Jews and Gentiles). 

When He returns, Christ is going to resurrect every dead saint (Jew and Gentile) and translate every living saint (Jew and Gentile), and we are all going to accompany Him on His descent to earth, and we will rule and reign on earth with Him.  The body of Christ is the total of faithful Jews and faithful Gentiles - the One Olive Tree of Romans 11. 

[kwikphilly]

12 minutes ago, BornAgain490 said:

Paul writing to Gentile believers at Corinth:  "For I feel a divine jealousy for you, since I betrothed you to one husband, to present you as a pure virgin to Christ."  (2 Corinthians 11:2).

Paul writing to Gentile believers at Ephesus: "Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish." (Ephesians 5:25-27).

The Israel of God is the Body of Christ and is the total sum of all faithful Gentiles and all faithful Jews.  It was God's plan all along. 

 

Yes, God did use Israel to bring forth the promised Seed, which is Christ Jesus. Now that Christ has come, the Israel of God are all the faithful Jews and faithful Gentiles that have received Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord. The lost Jews will perish along with lost Gentiles.  Israel will not rule, Jesus will rule as King, and the Israel of God will serve Him and rule and reign with Him.

 

This is false teaching from C. I. Scofield, Peter Ruckman, and those that teach hyperdispensationalism.  

Christ is not divided.  Christ is the head, and all the saints are His body (Jews and Gentiles). 

When He returns, Christ is going to resurrect every dead saint (Jew and Gentile) and translate every living saint (Jew and Gentile), and we are all going to accompany Him on His descent to earth, and we will rule and reign on earth with Him.  The body of Christ is the total of faithful Jews and faithful Gentiles - the One Olive Tree of Romans 11. 

Amen..