Before the Wrath

[missmuffet]

1 minute ago, Marilyn C said:

Bride - female.

Huh? You lost me a while back.

[missmuffet]

9 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

Your Old Testament quotes ALL make "the Lord" the husband. "The Lord" in the Old Testament is JAHWEH. We talk of the Bride of CHRIST.

How can you produce New Jerusalem as Israel? They are the Gates. The city has as its foundation 12 APOSTLES. New Jerusalem is a Tabernacle. The gates of the Tabernacle were not part of the structure. You have misrepresented New Jerusalem.

I have shown BOTH your Old Testament references and your New Testament verses to be invalid.

John 3:29 speaks of DISCIPLES. John, who was born to a woman, had disciples. They were not the bride. John is contrasted with the "least of the Kingdom". To ENTER  the Kingdom one had to be born of the Spirit. That means that John remained a Jew and not a member of the New Man. I declare your proof as invalid, but go even further. The disciples of Jesus were declared by John himself to be the Bride. Israel are certainly not the disciples of Jesus.

But you somehow forgot to tell us that God (JAHWEH) DIVORCED Israel for whoring. What say you to the Law which says that once you have divorced a woman and she has gone to another, remarriage is forbidden?

It looks like we are on the same page AdHoc. I don't see that very often on

Worthy.

[Marilyn C]

6 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

Your Old Testament quotes ALL make "the Lord" the husband. "The Lord" in the Old Testament is JAHWEH. We talk of the Bride of CHRIST.

How can you produce New Jerusalem as Israel? They are the Gates. The city has as its foundation 12 APOSTLES. New Jerusalem is a Tabernacle. The gates of the Tabernacle were not part of the structure. You have misrepresented New Jerusalem.

I have shown BOTH your Old Testament references and your New Testament verses to be invalid.

John 3:29 speaks of DISCIPLES. John, who was born to a woman, had disciples. They were not the bride. John is contrasted with the "least of the Kingdom". To ENTER  the Kingdom one had to be born of the Spirit. That means that John remained a Jew and not a member of the New Man. I declare your proof as invalid, but go even further. The disciples of Jesus were declared by John himself to be the Bride. Israel are certainly not the disciples of Jesus.

But you somehow forgot to tell us that God (JAHWEH) DIVORCED Israel for whoring. What say you to the Law which says that once you have divorced a woman and she has gone to another, remarriage is forbidden?

Jesus is God. He is part of the Godhead, the one who is LORD, husband to Israel. God divorced Israel however, He will `marry them` meaning joining again and being their LORD. (Rev. 19: 7 marriage of the WIFE) Hosea is a type of the remarriage of Israel.

The New Jerusalem comes down OUT of heaven FROM God. The Body of Christ is with the Lord on His own throne in the third heaven. (Rev. 3: 21   Rev. 4: 1 - 4 around the throne with crowns.).

In the New Jerusalem we see the names of the 12 tribes of Israel on the gates. The 12 disciples were promised to rule over the 12 tribes of Israel. (Matt. 19: 28)

The 12 disciples always looked for the restoration of Israel to rule over the nations. (Acts 1: 6) `Lord will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?` 

 

[Marilyn C]

7 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

Huh? You lost me a while back.

You`re trying to tell me that we are the Bride, (a female) whereas God`s word says we are the New Man. (Eph. 1: 2: 15    4: 13,  24)

[BornAgain490]

21 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi BornAgain,

You are referring to the BODY of Christ in those scriptures. Look at the Old Testament there are many scriptures about Israel being the bride.

Yes, there are many OT references to FAITHFUL Israel being God's bride, wife, spouse.  Keep in mind, the terms bride and wife and spouse are used metaphorically, not literally. 

That said, God divorced His bride Israel because Israel was disobedient and  went whoring after other gods.

Why did God choose Jacob (Israel) in the first place?  The answer is clear: God chose Israel to be a priestly nation, to be a light to all other nations (the Gentiles) in order to draw the Gentiles to God, because God has always been the God of all, not just Israel. 

When Israel failed the task to be a light to the nations, was repeatedly disobedient and went whoring after other gods, God punished Israel by exiling them from the land.  God never stopped using Israel for His purposes,  for God promised that He was going to send His seed through Abraham Isaac and Jacob to complete His plan of redemption. That seed was the Lord, Christ Jesus. 

Christ Jesus tells us plainly that He is the True Light, and that, while He came to the Jews, He did not come to save only the Jews, but also the Gentiles.  We see at His circumcision, Simeon takes the baby Jesus in his hands and praises God for sending Jesus, the "Light to lighten the Gentiles."  

There is no mistaking why Jesus came; He came to die to be a ransom for many, Jews and Gentiles.  He did no come to set up an earthly kingdom, and He made clear to Pilate that His kingdom was not of this world. 

Now, Jesus will return to rule and reign on earth, but right now His kingdom is a spiritual kingdom that exists in the body of believers, many of whom have already died in Christ, many  are currently alive in Christ, and many of those who will be alive at His second coming. 

Back to Israel. When God promised to restore Israel, He promised to do so under a new covenant. That new covenant would abolish the old covenant, and would be a covenant which God Himself would initiate, and He did so by and through God the Son, Jesus Christ. Jesus came as a suffering servant to finish the task of drawing the nations to God through Himself.

Now that Jesus has accomished the task of being the True Light to all peoples, Jews and Gentiles, and now that Jesus has accomplished the task of being the one and only perfect blood sacrifice to take away the sins of the world, not just Israel, but the world, Jesus is now the high priest of all faithful peole, both Jews and Gentiles.  

All faithful people from every generstion make up one body of believers, which is referred to as the Body of Christ, which is also referred to as the bride of Christ, which is also referred to as the Israel of God. 

Peace and blessings. 

[missmuffet]

28 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

You`re trying to tell me that we are the Bride, (a female) whereas God`s word says we are the New Man. (Eph. 1: 2: 15    4: 13,  24)

Our sex has nothing to do with it.

In Christianity, the church is referred to as the bride of Christ, and the new man is a new creation through God's life and nature entering a person:

[Marilyn C]

1 hour ago, missmuffet said:

Our sex has nothing to do with it.

In Christianity, the church is referred to as the bride of Christ, and the new man is a new creation through God's life and nature entering a person:

Not all part of the church believes that we, the Body of Christ are the bride. 

[Marilyn C]

1 hour ago, BornAgain490 said:

Yes, there are many OT references to FAITHFUL Israel being God's bride, wife, spouse.  Keep in mind, the terms bride and wife and spouse are used metaphorically, not literally. 

That said, God divorced His bride Israel because Israel was disobedient and  went whoring after other gods.

.....

All faithful people from every generstion make up one body of believers, which is referred to as the Body of Christ, which is also referred to as the bride of Christ, which is also referred to as the Israel of God. 

 

There are over a dozen scriptures referring to Israel as the (symbolic) bride. There NO scriptures saying that the Body of Christ is the bride. 

Now, even though Israel were disobedient God knew all that, He didn`t go `oops, I`ll have to make the church now the bride.` No. God created Israel and always had a purpose for them. They will again rule the nations of the world. 

The Body of Christ, however, is NOT an earthly nation but a heavenly one and will rule from the Lord`s own throne in the third heaven. (Rev. 3: 21   4: 1 - 4)

[Jedi4Yahweh]

18 hours ago, BornAgain490 said:

Now that Jesus has accomished the task of being the True Light to all peoples, Jews and Gentiles, and now that Jesus has accomplished the task of being the one and only perfect blood sacrifice to take away the sins of the world, not just Israel, but the world, Jesus is now the high priest of all faithful peole, both Jews and Gentiles.  

All faithful people from every generstion make up one body of believers, which is referred to as the Body of Christ, which is also referred to as the bride of Christ, which is also referred to as the Israel of God. 

Amen.  The new man Paul was referring to is the new body of both believing Jews and believing Gentiles.  Gentiles are no longer alienated from the promises that were given only to Israel, because in Christ he has made us one new man made up of both Jew and Gentile. The New Covenant was only promised to Israel not to Gentiles (Jer 31:31-34), but in Christ gentiles are made part to the New Covenant.  The Bride is the body of Christ made up both Jew and Gentile joined together as one body.  The dispensationalist doctrine that separates Jew and Gentile is entirely unbiblical under the New Covenant.  God's has made one new body, one people, one church, one hope, which is made up of both believing Jews and believing Gentiles together. 

Notice it says in times past you were Gentiles...if you are in Christ you are no longer an uncircumcision/covenanted/strangers/foreigners/gentiles, you are now citizens of the commonwealth of Israel.

Wherefore remember, that ye [being] in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition [between us]; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, [even] the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, [so] making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: - Eph 2:11-16 KJV

Edited November 12, 2024 by Jedi4Yahweh

[missmuffet]

56 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Not all part of the church believes that we, the Body of Christ are the bride. 

Suit yourself Marilyn.