Some Who Call Themselves 'Christian' Will Not Inherit the Kingdom of God?

[BornAgain490]

15 minutes ago, tatwo said:

Wouldn’t that depend upon their spiritual maturity? Meaning the degree that one has been “conformed to the image of Christ?”

Paul in Romans 8 wrote [emphasis mine]…“And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.  For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.”

This is typically overlooked by most of Christianity…Paul wrote…those who are called…are called according to God’s purpose…whom He foreknew…these are “predestined” to become conformed to the image of His Son.

This “become conformed to the image of His son”…is the process of spiritual maturity. From a new born spiritual infant all the way to mature spiritual adult…Paul further illustrates this in Ephesian 2 where he wrote…“For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.”

Most of Christianity won't and don't even touch this reality...it sure doesn't get much attention around here. 

My point…well...until a new born spiritual infant grows up in to a mature spiritual adult…which is the process of moving from carnality and minding the things of the flesh…to a life lived and lead by the Holy Spirit…they will exhibit carnality in minding the deeds of the flesh…albeit to lesser and lesser degrees as they mature.

If one is not aware of the Father's divine intention for their existence in Christ...they cannot grow and mature in the good works which God prepared beforehand for them. That is the definition of disobedient and rebellious...children of God...none the less. Anyone care to guess what's instore for rebellious children of God that have been saved?

Tatwo...:)

I agree that there is a growth process for all born again in Christ.  But at the moment of conception (regeneration) the Holy Ghost takes residence in the new Christian and begins the conviction process immediately.  Reaching spiritual maturity is fast in some, slower in others, but the process is the same since it is the same Holy Spirit in each. 

[BornAgain490]

18 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

Do you believe that pastors/etc who teach a pre-trib rapture are knowingly deceiving their flocks?

Gee, fella, if a pastor knows he's deceiving his flock, then he must also know that pretrib rapture is a deception, and if he agrees to teach what he knows is a deception, well,  I'd say he's of the devil and he knows it. Getting him to admit it is another thing. 

Generally, people that are deceived don't know they're deceived until they're shown the very deception they fell for.  Some are cult-like indoctrinated and refuse to believe anything other than what they've been indoctrinated to believe. 

Fortunately, some have opened their hearts and their eyes to see, and have gone back to the scriptures for the truth. 

Pretrib rapture sells tickets because it appeals to flesh and feels so good to think I'll escape what all those "third-world Christians" have experienced. 

Instead of teaching false pretrib rapture, teach how to be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. 

 

[tatwo]

36 minutes ago, BornAgain490 said:

I think you've made John 3:3 and 5 more complex than it actually is. 

I can appreciate another mans opinion...thank you...however what I posted is exactly what the Lord said...read it again.

The words "see" as in "cannot see the Kingdom of God"...and the word "enter" as in "cannot enter the Kingdom of God" are two entirely different words with two entirely different meanings. I included the definitions of both of them for you...

To perceive the Holy Spirit with the "eyes or mind of the soul" as is described in being "born again" referenced as the "seeing" in John 3:3...is the act of faith that opens the door of the Kingdom of God to the mind of the carnal soul.

An obedient response as motivated by that faith...drawing one to "act or move" as the Holy Spirit has directed...through that door into the Kingdom of God is what is meant by "enter" into the kingdom of God.

This is is correctly called the "New Birth Experience"...a Scriptural example of what I am explaining is found in Acts 19...emphasis mine

"It happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus, and found some disciples.  (2)  He said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" And they said to him, "No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit."  (3)  And he said, "Into what then were you baptized?" And they said, "Into John's baptism."  (4)  Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus."  (5)  When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (6)  And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying." 

If we cannot agree upon a scriptural standard concerning these things...then this discussion has no future. It usually best serves the discussion if the Original Poster has a seminal grasp of the subject matter...and or...is willing to interact in a bipartisan frame of mind to establish a common scriptural base line. That way others are edified.

Tatwo...:)

[BornAgain490]

7 minutes ago, tatwo said:

I can appreciate another mans opinion...thank you...however what I posted is exactly what the Lord said...read it again.

The words "see" as in "cannot see the Kingdom of God"...and the word "enter" as in "cannot enter the Kingdom of God" are two entirely different words with two entirely different meanings. I included the definitions of both of them for you...

To perceive the Holy Spirit with the "eyes or mind of the soul" as is described in being "born again" referenced as the "seeing" in John 3:3...is the act of faith that opens the door of the Kingdom of God to the mind of the carnal soul.

An obedient response as motivated by that faith...drawing one to "act or move" as the Holy Spirit has directed...through that door into the Kingdom of God is what is meant by "enter" into the kingdom of God.

This is is correctly called the "New Birth Experience"...a Scriptural example of what I am explaining is found in Acts 19...emphasis mine

"It happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus, and found some disciples.  (2)  He said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" And they said to him, "No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit."  (3)  And he said, "Into what then were you baptized?" And they said, "Into John's baptism."  (4)  Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus."  (5)  When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (6)  And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying." 

If we cannot agree upon a scriptural standard concerning these things...then this discussion has no future. It usually best serves the discussion if the Original Poster has a seminal grasp of the subject matter...and or...is willing to interact in a bipartisan frame of mind to establish a common scriptural base line. That way others are edified.

Tatwo...:)

I do understand your position on "see" and "enter", for they are two different words. 

However, I don't think I'm straining when I say that "see" and "enter" refer to the same thing.

One does see with one's eyes, and one does enter a place physically. 

But, when Jesus said, "bring me a penny, that I may see it."  And at the next moment, once he was brought the coin, asked the crowd of pharisees whose superscription was on the coin. Do we know whether Jesus was holding the coin in his hand at that point?  Or was Jesus simply pointing to the coin that someone else was holding?  I think the former. 

I think when Jesus asked to "see" the coin, it's understood that he meant that ot be given to Him so He could point out the superscription. 

It's not unlike when someone is having difficulty openining a jar of pickles, and another comes along and says, "Here now. Let me see that."  It's understood that he does not simply want to look at the jar, but to give it a turn at loosening the top.

So, I believe "see the kingdom" is understood to mean to physically "enter the kingdom."

[TheBlade]

Bornagain490..  

The song playing "Surrender" Allies.. what are the odds.. 

A saved person can and at times may yield to the flesh, he is not "in the flesh" the domain of sin. He will not practice a walk in the flesh. The word "flesh" here refers to the  old, unrenewed sinful nature by which the unregenerate man lives. Shall I go on because this is one of those things you can not just answer in a simple post with John and only Romans. John "You judge according to human standards [just by what you see]. I do not judge anyone." God through Christ said that.. that is backed up by 1st Sam "Do not look at his appearance or at his physical stature, because I have refused him. For the LORD does not see as man sees; for man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart.”

So just what "Christian" are you even talking about? So many times believers focus on the sin the wrong not what Christ  has done and finished. Its not a sinless walk that then equals saved. We still take human standards to understand Gods word. He is not human He is a spirit. We walk in the spirit not the flesh, we walk by faith we live by faith. That does not mean lol you have to be sinless to be walking in the spirit. If we fully understood just Rom 8 you would understand what I said. 

We read Gods word like 1st John and where He says "if we confess our sins" "if we say we have no sins". We study we dive in so to speak and find He was talking to a group that believed they had no sin.. didn't sin. 

So focus on Christ not the sin.. the change should be like day and night,  easy when you give up the fight  yeah the song.. AWESOME.....now you know He loves you so.. surrender! You can't stop love like this.. keeps going even when its denied. No use to resist.. shall I go on? Its a fight you can't win. Because His power of His love is so strong. All your life He has wanted you He's has cared for you.. 

YEAH focus on HIM! What HE started He will finish. Some keep trying to do something by them self as if they don't need Him. You cannot do anything at all with out Him. Its a fight you can't win

[BornAgain490]

7 hours ago, TheBlade said:

Bornagain490..  

The song playing "Surrender" Allies.. what are the odds.. 

A saved person can and at times may yield to the flesh, he is not "in the flesh" the domain of sin. He will not practice a walk in the flesh. The word "flesh" here refers to the  old, unrenewed sinful nature by which the unregenerate man lives. Shall I go on because this is one of those things you can not just answer in a simple post with John and only Romans. John "You judge according to human standards [just by what you see]. I do not judge anyone." God through Christ said that.. that is backed up by 1st Sam "Do not look at his appearance or at his physical stature, because I have refused him. For the LORD does not see as man sees; for man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart.”

So just what "Christian" are you even talking about? So many times believers focus on the sin the wrong not what Christ  has done and finished. Its not a sinless walk that then equals saved. We still take human standards to understand Gods word. He is not human He is a spirit. We walk in the spirit not the flesh, we walk by faith we live by faith. That does not mean lol you have to be sinless to be walking in the spirit. If we fully understood just Rom 8 you would understand what I said. 

We read Gods word like 1st John and where He says "if we confess our sins" "if we say we have no sins". We study we dive in so to speak and find He was talking to a group that believed they had no sin.. didn't sin. 

So focus on Christ not the sin.. the change should be like day and night,  easy when you give up the fight  yeah the song.. AWESOME.....now you know He loves you so.. surrender! You can't stop love like this.. keeps going even when its denied. No use to resist.. shall I go on? Its a fight you can't win. Because His power of His love is so strong. All your life He has wanted you He's has cared for you.. 

YEAH focus on HIM! What HE started He will finish. Some keep trying to do something by them self as if they don't need Him. You cannot do anything at all with out Him. Its a fight you can't win

I agree there are none that live in sinless perfection. And trying to do so will not save a man. The saved man, however is guided by the indwelling Spirit of God, and the strength of Christ which resides in him, to resist temptation and walk away from fleshly desires.  The saved man will sin, he will backslide, but by God's grace is he saved so that he will repent.  This might happen many times over a lifetime, but he will always repent, not to get saved or be saved again, but because he has been saved by God's grace.  

As I must reiterate, the man I am referring to in the OP is the one who has never been saved, but has made a false profession of faith that his behaviors make clearly evident. 

[FreeGrace]

14 hours ago, BornAgain490 said:

I have it right: Born Again by the power of God Almighty at which time he gifted me saving faith. 

The Bible clearly teaches the opposite.  Eph 2:5 equates being "made alive" (regeneration) with being saved.

v.8 says we are saved by grace THROUGH faith.  Do you know why I capitalized the word "through".  It means the faith precedes the salvation, and by extension from v.5, regeneration.

Knowing the Word prevents such errors.

[FreeGrace]

14 hours ago, BornAgain490 said:

I've seen more pastors abandon pretrib rapture in the last ten years or so because they've finally reconciled scripture with scripture, instead of reconciling  Scofield with Larkin. 

Glad to hear!  

[FreeGrace]

14 hours ago, BornAgain490 said:

Precisely why the gospel message was written down and carried from one nation to another by disciples of disciples of disciples etc, for hundreds of years. God has given me the the ministry I have. If He calls me out to another area, or calls me home, let His will be done. 

It is those with the spiritual gifts of teaching that are the ones commissioned to evangelize.  Not everyone has any of those gifts and are NOT commanded or commissioned to evangelize to the world.

It is quite sad that (bully) pastors put a guilt trip on those in their congregations who don't have any teaching gifts and try to guilt them to "share the gospel".

As I have shown from 2 verses, what ALL believers ARE "commissioned" to do is to be prepared to ANSWER anyone who asks the reason for our confidence, etc.

All believers need to be prepared to give a biblically solid answer.  But how many are prepared?

[FreeGrace]

14 hours ago, BornAgain490 said:

  FreeGrace said:

Yes, that has been my point.  Of the 3 parallel passages, 2 use "not inherit" and Eph 5:5 uses "have no inheritance".  But don't forget what follows:  IN IN IN the kingdom.

The word "in" is not used as you are suggesting.

I'm not suggesting anything.  I am pointing out the FACT that if Paul was indicating that such people won't enter the kingdom, there would be no need to mention anything about "in the kingdom", since they won't be in the kingdom.  This should be rather obvious.  I think your "agenda" is keeping you from understanding the FACT.

14 hours ago, BornAgain490 said:

It is used to indicate that there is no getting in to the kingdom for the ones who practice  ungodliness and unrighteousness. 

No, that is an opinion.  You have been taught an erroneous position.  And the Bible makes clear that believers can and do live self absorbed lives and immorality.

Let's start with 1 Cor 6 and the passage about "not inheriting the kingdom" in v.9-10.

3 verses later . . .

13 - You say, “Food for the stomach and the stomach for food, and God will destroy them both.” The body, however, is not meant for sexual immorality but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body.  Here, Paul is ACKNOWLEDGING that believers can commit sexual immorality.  

15 - Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never!  Here, Paul is telling BELIEVERS what they should NOT do.

18 - Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body.   This is a command to believers, not unbelievers.

Now let's see how Paul ends his second epistle to the Corinthians:

12:20-21

For I am afraid that when I come I may not find you as I want you to be, and you may not find me as you want me to be. I fear that there may be discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, slander, gossip, arrogance and disorder. I am afraid that when I come again my God will humble me before you, and I will be grieved over many who have sinned earlier and have not repented of the impurity, sexual sin and debauchery in which they have indulged.

Please don't tell me that Paul was describing the behaviors of those outside the church, which would be unbelievers.  No.  He was clearly describing believers.

Oh, I'm not done.  Even though you have ignored the FACTS of Eph 5:3 and 5, it is cleara that Paul was showing that believers CAN and DO commit immorality, impurity and greed. Which are "improper for God's children".

Still not done.

2 Thess 3:6 - In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers and sisters, to keep away from every believer who is idle and disruptive and does not live according to the teaching you received from us.  Paul is warning believers to avoid other believers who are idle/disruptive and don't live according to the teaching they received.

11 - We hear that some among you are idle and disruptive. They are not busy; they are busybodies.

12 - Such people we command and urge in the Lord Jesus Christ to settle down and earn the food they eat.

14-15 

Take special note of anyone who does not obey our instruction in this letter. Do not associate with them, in order that they may feel ashamed. Yet do not regard them as an enemy, but warn them as you would a fellow believer.

Now, think about this.  If Paul was only describing unsaved people, even those in the church, why would he ONLY emphasize behavior that needed to be cleaned up?  How does that make sense?  It doesn't make sense.

If all these that Paul described were unbelievers, he would have evangelized them, not tried to "clean up their behaviors".

Only to believers who are living sinful lives does calling them on it and encouraging them to clean up their lives make sense.

Don't believe me.  But do believe the Word of God.