How God Is Bringing The Good Work In Us To Completion

[AdHoc]

1 hour ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Ad Hoc, alias Santa finding out who is `naughty or nice.` 

Looks like no pressies for me this Christmas. (ha, ha)

Naughty Marilyn. 

 

1 hour ago, Marilyn C said:

 

Looks like you are `naughty` too, Ad Hoc. You missed these scriptures -

`I will betroth you to me for ever; Yes, I will betroth you to me in righteousness and justice, in loving kindness and mercy; i will betroth you to me in faithfulness, and you shall know the LORD.` (Hosea 2: 19 & 20)

Looks like we both have to stand in the `naughty` corner!!!!

 

37 minutes ago, Cntrysner said:

What, the scorned bride says you are naughty.

And now my naughty Lady Friend must stand in the corner for she has created an absurdity WITHOUT EXPLAINING IT. God did say that Israel is "Lo-ammi". God did say He gives Her a writ of divorce. And He did say what Hosea 2 says. How can this be, my fair Lady? Be careful of your answer now because you have an added problem. God's Law with Israel forbids a whoring wife to be taken again by her former husband! (Deut,24:1-4)

[Marilyn C]

1 hour ago, AdHoc said:

 

 

And now my naughty Lady Friend must stand in the corner for she has created an absurdity WITHOUT EXPLAINING IT. God did say that Israel is "Lo-ammi". God did say He gives Her a writ of divorce. And He did say what Hosea 2 says. How can this be, my fair Lady? Be careful of your answer now because you have an added problem. God's Law with Israel forbids a whoring wife to be taken again by her former husband! (Deut,24:1-4)

Yes, God`s law forbids marrying again a whoring wife. (Deut. 24: 1 - 4) (as you said). Then in Hosea we see the nation of Israel divided up into the kingdom of Israel (north, 10 tribes) and the kingdom of Judah, (south, 2 tribes). 

Both had symbolically been adulterous. God says -

`I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel, (northern kingdom) ....but I will have mercy of Judah, and will save them by the Lord their God...` (Hos. 1: 6 & 7)

However, eventually -

`Yet the number of the children of Israel (10 tribes) shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass that in the place where it was said unto them, ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, ye are sons of the living God.

Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head,....` (Hos. 1: 10 & 11)

Summing up - God commanded men from the nation of Israel not to marry an adulterous wife. They could not cleanse that sin from the land. However, God is able to restore and cleanse the symbolic adulterous nation of Israel because of Christ`s sacrifice. 

[Your closest friendnt]

2 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Yes, God`s law forbids marrying again a whoring wife. (Deut. 24: 1 - 4) (as you said). Then in Hosea we see the nation of Israel divided up into the kingdom of Israel (north, 10 tribes) and the kingdom of Judah, (south, 2 tribes). 

Both had symbolically been adulterous. God says -

`I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel, (northern kingdom) ....but I will have mercy of Judah, and will save them by the Lord their God...` (Hos. 1: 6 & 7)

However, eventually -

`Yet the number of the children of Israel (10 tribes) shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass that in the place where it was said unto them, ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, ye are sons of the living God.

Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head,....` (Hos. 1: 10 & 11)

Summing up - God commanded men from the nation of Israel not to marry an adulterous wife. They could not cleanse that sin from the land. However, God is able to restore and cleanse the symbolic adulterous nation of Israel because of Christ`s sacrifice. 

Do they have to believe. And do they have to accept that they do not have a lot with God without Jesus Christ who is our righteousness and our sanctification. 

[Your closest friendnt]

7 hours ago, AdHoc said:

Thanks for your understanding. I am familiar with most of it. I have given my proofs for my take and admit some would not stand by themselves. Also, there is a textual criticism which comes form the Nestle-Aland texts, which I don't normally accept (Rev.5:9-10). But I find, by weight of evidence, my understanding to be more likely.

If you accord 24 to the Priesthood of men, you create two difficulties.
1. Why is John not included?
2. Why were they raptured before John. Tey were alrady there whe John was caught up.

Unwittingly, it seems to me, you made your problem bigger by your preamble on Christ's preeminence. How can He be preeminent when others have crowns before Him? Added to this, John is also priest but has no crown or throne like the 24, but is an Apostle on which New Jerusalem is built. Next, what need has the heavenly setup have of men?

Now we come to perhaps a small matter, but it reflects on accuracy. Men call the place of Chapter 4 "the Throne Room". But according to Ephesians 4 Christ was raptured to the right hand of majesty "above ALL HEAVENS". That which men call "the Throne Room" is said by the Word, to be heaven. I propose that it is impossible to have God's throne "above all heavens" and then have it in heaven.

But I have a reason for ts anomaly. The Throne "above all heavens" is the Father's and rules the universe. That of Chapter 4 is Christ's Throne of Glory for the King of the EARTH. From there He opens the seals which only concern the EARTH

You remember from my answer concerning the 24 Elders, I emphasized Jesus' Preeminence as a MAN. In eternity there is nothing to compete with Him. The preeminence of Colossians 1 is of the first creature, the second creature and those who slept in death. In the creature Jesus "BECAME flesh" - indicating that at some time He wasn't. "This DAY I have begotten You". A "day" is part of creation.

This point then makes His preeminence as a CREATURE crucial. The 24 Elders being men, as the majority of students take, becomes most unlikely. But if the 24 Elders are Cherubs then all is normal for Lucifer was first "Covering Cherub".

Anyway, I must also smile at those who get tense in this difficult theme because they usually oppose a split rapture, but cannot explain why John was not raptured together with the 24 Elders, and why thy had already received their crowns when John had been promised a WHOLE TRIBE of Israel, but had no crown yet.

You can see that I admit that my arguments are are not watertight. But they do not cause problems like the majority argument does.

The 24 elders are dressed in white robes like the Priests in the Old Testament. 

The are the Royal Priesthood and they all worship the Lord at the same time as supposed it was in the Old Covenant where the Aaron's Priests were divided in 24 families and they took turns to do the worship before the Lord two weeks a year. One week each family first and they repeat that for another week. The rest of the weeks they did the worship on the most important Holidays all the families together.

And this is what they represent that all the Royal Priesthood of God in Jesus Christ worshiping at the same time. And any time. 

They represent the believers in Jesus Christ from all the families of the world. They are not specific individuals. They believers in Jesus Christ as in their own time as they are born and have become eligible to be part of the Royal Priesthood in Jesus Christ. The repented ones who have washed their garments from the polution of sin. 

Those who are practicing sins and they have not repent are outside the Temple of God and as they repent and wash their garments white they are allowed to enter the Temple and worship together with the other  believers. This takes place through out the generations of believers in Jesus Christ. As they sojourn here on earth. If not why then it will say that when the siners repent and have white garments then they allowed to enter through the gates and joint in the worship together with the other Royal Priests. 

Edited December 21, 2024 by Your closest friendnt

[Marilyn C]

1 hour ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Do they have to believe. And do they have to accept that they do not have a lot with God without Jesus Christ who is our righteousness and our sanctification. 

`It shall be in that day that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on me....` (Zech. 12: 9 & 10)

God will help them to believe when He comes and reveals Himself to them. At this time Israel is partial blinded. God, however, continues to protect them because he made a covenant with Abraham and David. 

[Your closest friendnt]

3 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

`It shall be in that day that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on me....` (Zech. 12: 9 & 10)

God will help them to believe when He comes and reveals Himself to them. At this time Israel is partial blinded. God, however, continues to protect them because he made a covenant with Abraham and David. 

Greetings and good morning. Is Zechariah a disciple of Jesus Christ? The answer it is obvious. No Zechariah lived and died well before Jesus Christ was born. 

But Zechariah spoke like he was a contemporary to the events that took place in Jerusalem. He speaks as if he is a witness to what happened in Jerusalem and he describes what happened to the one who died and how he died. He is describing what happened to Jesus Christ the day he died. 

All the people were gather against the Holy one of  God. 

He also said something which may not be easily understood at that time. 

He said that those who pierced him they were standing before him like as he said it and that how it will happen when they stand before the one they pierced on the day of their Judgement. 

They will find out at that time in the time of their Judgement if they do not find that earlier in their lives and believed. 

That they one they put to death it was the appointed to be the Christ of God through whom God has appoint to Judge the world. This is about Jesus Christ as the Lord after he was glorify by God. 

Jesus said the same prophetic words Zechariah spoke to the Apostle John in Revelation chapter one. That they will look upon whom they pierced. Whether as believers in him because he invited those who pierced him to believe in him. The Gospel of Grace and supplication which cannot be part of the Law.

Those who pierced him are not just the solders who did their duty but also the rest of the people who sought crucified him. 

The Holy Temple of God was Jesus Christ there where God is and his Temple, there is the Jerusalem of God. To emphasize that Jesus was without sin. 

Are you still waiting for Jesus Christ to die? For the fulfillment of the words in verse 10 which you left out "that they will looked upon him whom they pierced. 

The same words Jesus said to John in Revelation one that they have been fulfilled in him. That they were spoken about himself. Jesus Christ is still having the wounds in himself and he will always have and we see them that's how they will know that He is the one whom they pierced because they have seen him and they can positive identify him. 

To look upon also means to look upon the one they seek to believe. To look upon the one they are invited to believe. 

Edited December 21, 2024 by Your closest friendnt

[Luther]

On 12/19/2024 at 7:06 PM, AdHoc said:

The best answer I've heard. The 24 Elders are obscure. They also do not affect our Christian walk if we get them wrong.

Of course not. However God gives us the desire to find the truth of a matter. 

[Your closest friendnt]

2 hours ago, Luther said:

Of course not. However God gives us the desire to find the truth of a matter. 

Your response consists of two issues. 

The second one as follows copy and paste from your quoted post in parentheses below. 

("However God gives us the desire to find the truth of a matter.") Is highly comentable. 

And then why your agreement to the statement below. Please state some of the reasons considered for your agreement. Why others disagree and you are agreeing. You know that the truth is not established by agreement or disagreement but by careful examination and a thorough examination of the matter at hand.  

Like when King Agripa said to Paul that you almost persuaded me to believe. 

Why were you persuaded to agree? Please. 

("The best answer I've heard. The 24 Elders are obscure. They also do not affect our Christian walk if we get them wrong.")

Edited December 21, 2024 by Your closest friendnt

[Luther]

39 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Your response consists of two issues. 

The second one as follows copy and paste from your quoted post in parentheses below. 

("However God gives us the desire to find the truth of a matter.") Is highly comentable. 

And then why your agreement to the statement below. Please state some of the reasons considered for your agreement. Why others disagree and you are agreeing. You know that the truth is not established by agreement or disagreement but by careful examination and a thorough examination of the matter at hand.  

Like when King Agripa said to Paul that you almost persuaded me to believe. 

Why were you persuaded to agree? Please. 

("The best answer I've heard. The 24 Elders are obscure. They also do not affect our Christian walk if we get them wrong.")

I had commented on the 24 elders and described what I believed the Bible taught on the subject at this point. If I'm being led, I would examine the subject further, but this is what I understand at this point. 

The Bible study is a collaborative effort. We add what we believe to be true, and God refines us. If I learn something that doesn't build upon the foundation of truth, than I hope to be refined. 

Edited December 21, 2024 by Luther
Added to it

[Your closest friendnt]

21 minutes ago, Luther said:

I had commented on the 24 elders and described what I believed the Bible taught on the subject at this point. If I'm being led, I would examine the subject further, but this is what I understand at this point. 

This was about your agreement to this statement. ("The best answer I've heard. The 24 Elders are obscure. They also do not affect our Christian walk if we get them wrong.") You have not comment why you agree to this statement. That we have 24 obscure elders. Are the 24 elders obscure? From your comments about them they are not obscure why then are establishing the statement that they are obscure as a truth statement. 

Edited December 21, 2024 by Your closest friendnt