Possessed Believer??

[Gracejj]

31 minutes ago, AnOrangeCat said:

I agree with this. Possession as we see it in the Bible points to someone else in the driver seat. An attack is something else entirely.

This is a good answer and in line with something Jesus said: No man can serve two masters (Matthew 6:24). The Bible is our sourcebook for the spiritual, so any and all claims about how spiritual things work need to be backed up by the Bible.

Going back to what I said about farouk's response, any and all claims about demons need to be backed up with scripture. The claim being made in the message you heard lacks that. Does the Bible tell us there's a difference between ownership and possession? Does it tell us that there are parallels between our salvation and God's protection over us and man made laws about squatters? No.

What it does tell us is this: "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand." (John 10:28)

Call it ownership, call it possession, but the Bible tells us we can't be stolen away from Jesus. The character of Satan is made clear. He's out to kill, steal, and destroy (John 10:10). If demons could simply possess Christians they would. They'd have a field day on the killing, stealing, and destroying and land the believer in Hell. Instead what we see in the Bible are things like Jesus saying we can't serve two masters, that no one will steal us out of His hand, and people of God being given authority over demons to cast them out.

To an extent I agree, but I'll note a few things. Not all temptations come from demons. A lot of it is just the flesh and bad decision making, and many a Christian has used the devil or demons as a scapegoat (the old saying "The devil made me do it", for example). James 1:14 tells us "But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire." (Italics added there by me for emphasis). We can and do sin out of ignorance, weakness, and sometimes even willful disobedience. But that doesn't mean we're entering some kind of agreement with Satan. The reality is God is aware that we're going to fail and make mistakes sometimes, but we're covered. We're works in progress (Philippians 1:6). As His children He loves us and is patient with us. He certainly isn't looking for an excuse to smite us, send us to Hell, or subject us to demonic attacks.

I agree. That was good explanation. The moment I  heard that sentence it didn't feel right so i asked here, but i also know that somtimes as humans we can do simple mistakes and get carried away while giving sermons and say things that just could be our own personal understanding or opinion.  It's always good to get council and advice of other believers. 

Thank you. 

[Michael37]

18 minutes ago, Gracejj said:

Thank you for sharing that story, its empowering. I am learning about the authority that we have in Christ.  So that was very good example for me to learn from.

Thank you. 

I served with this Deliverance Minister on occasions. He's been gone to glory for some time now, but his legacy lives on.

Demons defeated : Subritzky, Bill : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

[Logostician]

All Christians are possessed by the Holy Spirit, after freely giving themselves to Jesus Christ.  And the Holy Spirit does not share His space in your heart, soul, and mind with demons.  Our God is a jealous God.  We belong to Him, and Him only.  You can be oppressed by demons, but not possessed.  If you are oppressed call out the name of Jesus, and the demons will flee.  There is power in His name.

James 4:7

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

Luke 10:17

And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.

Let your conversation be with Jesus.  Do not converse with demons, even to rebuke them.  Follow the example of the Angel Michael.

Jude 9

Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

Edited January 15 by Logostician
Addition

[Gracejj]

51 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

I served with this Deliverance Minister on occasions. He's been gone to glory for some time now, but his legacy lives on.

Demons defeated : Subritzky, Bill : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Thank you for the recommendations. 🙏

[Michael37]

1 minute ago, Gracejj said:

Thank you for the recommendations. 🙏

It's an easy read. Chapter 5 makes a distinction between "having a demon" and "being possessed by a demon".

[BibleStudent100]

6 hours ago, AnOrangeCat said:

Not all temptations come from demons. A lot of it is just the flesh and bad decision making, and many a Christian has used the devil or demons as a scapegoat (the old saying "The devil made me do it", for example). James 1:14 tells us "But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire." (Italics added there by me for emphasis). We can and do sin out of ignorance, weakness, and sometimes even willful disobedience.

Very well stated OrangeCat.  I have a dear Christian friend who blames everything on the demons.  For example, her car transmission went out and she blamed the Devil.  I would say that it was more like "metal fatigue," as internal combustion engines do not last forever.  But yes, poor decisions and human imperfection driven decision making produce temptations and problems.  Also, previously poor decisions (e.g. giving in to substance abuse, poor diet decisions, etc.) made in our early years can come back and create problems and temptations that plague us for decades.  Still, the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one and no one is immune from its effects. 

[other one]

Not everyone who is dealing with demons are possessed.   A Christian can be harassed/influenced by demons if they have any unrepentant sin in their lives.   But a spirit filled Christian can not be possessed.   A possessed person in every case I have experienced ultimately gave the demon control over their lives.  In time, they are incapable of taking it back.  Job is a good example of not letting that happen.  I don't see where the Holy Spirit lived within Job, but he would not submit in any way to the dark side.  We know from him that it is possible.  I personally think that a person who claims to be a Christian but still is letting demons control any part of his/her life really doesn't have a relationship with the Holy Spirit and should do some serious questioning about his/her stance with the Lord.  We must remember that we as humans have no real control over the spirit world, just deciding whether or not to interface with it.   When dealing with anything in the spirit world, it should be done through the Holy Spirit.

If you come across someone that is heavily oppressed or even possessed, one should consult with the Spirit before dealing with the person.   It is a simple thing to remove a demon from a person, but if that person is not willing and ready to invite the Holy Spirit in to dwell with him/her, there is a really good chance the demons will come back and that person would be much worse off than if they were just left alone until they were ready to accept Jesus as their Lord.  I have personally been told, "not yet, they aren't ready."

[tatwo]

13 hours ago, Gracejj said:

I recently heard this message, I want to ask your thoughts on this..

"We were taught as a Christian that a believer can't be demon possessed if he has Holy Spirit within them, you are no longer owned by devil, you were bought with a price.

I too was taught that a Christian believer cannot be demon possessed…however as a born again “water and Spirit” living in the Kingdom of God…son of God…I have been saved from the kingdom of darkness and put into the Kingdom of our God.

I am not here to attempt anyone to go against their sacred beliefs…only to learn and share…only to present to you a scriptural foundation from which to seek the matter out for yourself. The teaching in this area which is generally limited…is typically slanted in one direction or another…and needs clarification…which the scripture provides.

Perhaps we can look at it this way? A good place to start is with what Paul lays out as a "tri-part human"…in 1^st Thessalonians 5:23…he wrote...[emphasis mine]“Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.”

I take from Paul that there are “three” distinct “elements” if you will… spirit and soul and body…that require a “complete preservation”…this is very basic and simple to understand. If you disagree with this…and you believe that the human “spirit” and human “soul” are the same thing…no sense in reading any further…and I have no desire to argue with anyone about it…simply because the scripture cannot even convince you.

At the point of “salvation”…the Holy Spirit takes up residence in our “spirit” which is what Paul means in Romans 8:16 “The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God.” This is a “Spirit to spirit” indwelling in which the spirit of the human is saved….of course…the “Holy One” now abides.

Then you have the “soul” which is distinct from the “spirit” and it serves as the “seat” is how I will put it…of the “mind, will and emotions” and a reasonable effort in pursuing the Greek word “psuché” will reveal this.

Then there is the body…which houses the “spirit and the soul”…and is the physical temporal expression of what is happening in the “spirit and soul” of man…this really is basic understanding…however it is likely foreign to most.

The question few are willing or can even think to ask is…what is the condition of the human “soul” when the “Holy Spirit” first indwells [preserves/saves] the human spirit? Perhaps you have never heard of such a question? Well as they are “separate entities” each requiring a “complete preservation”…it is a pertinent question for the child of God and student of the bible to consider.

One must understand that…for the sum of one’s life…up to the point of “salvation”…the human soul is steeped in a “carnal, fleshly, worldly, and earthly” mindset…of course…it has spent its entire existence being “conformed to this world”…hence the need for salvation?

This gives light to verses like this…”He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son”…”do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind”…“I am again in labor until Christ is formed in you”…“do not be conformed to the former lusts which were yours in your ignorance” Rom 8:29, Rom 12:2, Gal 4:19, 1Pe 1:14 respectively.

These all denote a “transforming of the mind” from a “worldly mindset”…via a constant “conforming or forming” to the “image of Christ…mind of Christ …Kingdom of God…heavenly mindset.” And of course we all know who it is that is busy doing just that…the Holy Spirit living in our human spirit is the one actively working to bring us into “conformity to image of Christ”…ultimately “preserving the soul complete.”

Once the Holy Spirit “preserves” the human spirit by inhabiting it…He then begins the conversion of the “human soul” which is the process of maturing from being a child...who knows nothing about God...in the Kingdom of God to becoming a mature spiritual adult capable of presenting in themselves…the image and likeness of the Lord Yahshua Christ to the world around them.

Your right…I did not address the issue of demon possession here…I merely set up a foundation for the rest of the teaching…if that is even necessary.

Tatwo...:)

[Fran C]

27 minutes ago, tatwo said:

I too was taught that a Christian believer cannot be demon possessed…however as a born again “water and Spirit” living in the Kingdom of God…son of God…I have been saved from the kingdom of darkness and put into the Kingdom of our God.

I am not here to attempt anyone to go against their sacred beliefs…only to learn and share…only to present to you a scriptural foundation from which to seek the matter out for yourself. The teaching in this area which is generally limited…is typically slanted in one direction or another…and needs clarification…which the scripture provides.

Perhaps we can look at it this way? A good place to start is with what Paul lays out as a "tri-part human"…in 1^st Thessalonians 5:23…he wrote...[emphasis mine]“Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.”

I take from Paul that there are “three” distinct “elements” if you will… spirit and soul and body…that require a “complete preservation”…this is very basic and simple to understand. If you disagree with this…and you believe that the human “spirit” and human “soul” are the same thing…no sense in reading any further…and I have no desire to argue with anyone about it…simply because the scripture cannot even convince you.

At the point of “salvation”…the Holy Spirit takes up residence in our “spirit” which is what Paul means in Romans 8:16 “The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God.” This is a “Spirit to spirit” indwelling in which the spirit of the human is saved….of course…the “Holy One” now abides.

Then you have the “soul” which is distinct from the “spirit” and it serves as the “seat” is how I will put it…of the “mind, will and emotions” and a reasonable effort in pursuing the Greek word “psuché” will reveal this.

Then there is the body…which houses the “spirit and the soul”…and is the physical temporal expression of what is happening in the “spirit and soul” of man…this really is basic understanding…however it is likely foreign to most.

The question few are willing or can even think to ask is…what is the condition of the human “soul” when the “Holy Spirit” first indwells [preserves/saves] the human spirit? Perhaps you have never heard of such a question? Well as they are “separate entities” each requiring a “complete preservation”…it is a pertinent question for the child of God and student of the bible to consider.

One must understand that…for the sum of one’s life…up to the point of “salvation”…the human soul is steeped in a “carnal, fleshly, worldly, and earthly” mindset…of course…it has spent its entire existence being “conformed to this world”…hence the need for salvation?

This gives light to verses like this…”He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son”…”do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind”…“I am again in labor until Christ is formed in you”…“do not be conformed to the former lusts which were yours in your ignorance” Rom 8:29, Rom 12:2, Gal 4:19, 1Pe 1:14 respectively.

These all denote a “transforming of the mind” from a “worldly mindset”…via a constant “conforming or forming” to the “image of Christ…mind of Christ …Kingdom of God…heavenly mindset.” And of course we all know who it is that is busy doing just that…the Holy Spirit living in our human spirit is the one actively working to bring us into “conformity to image of Christ”…ultimately “preserving the soul complete.”

Once the Holy Spirit “preserves” the human spirit by inhabiting it…He then begins the conversion of the “human soul” which is the process of maturing from being a child...who knows nothing about God...in the Kingdom of God to becoming a mature spiritual adult capable of presenting in themselves…the image and likeness of the Lord Yahshua Christ to the world around them.

Your right…I did not address the issue of demon possession here…I merely set up a foundation for the rest of the teaching…if that is even necessary.

Tatwo...:)

Great explanation of how our spirit affects the soul.  

This is not spoken of enough - but I don't wish to derail this thread.

 

[Gracejj]

On 1/15/2025 at 7:27 AM, tatwo said:

I too was taught that a Christian believer cannot be demon possessed…however as a born again “water and Spirit” living in the Kingdom of God…son of God…I have been saved from the kingdom of darkness and put into the Kingdom of our God.

I am not here to attempt anyone to go against their sacred beliefs…only to learn and share…only to present to you a scriptural foundation from which to seek the matter out for yourself. The teaching in this area which is generally limited…is typically slanted in one direction or another…and needs clarification…which the scripture provides.

Perhaps we can look at it this way? A good place to start is with what Paul lays out as a "tri-part human"…in 1^st Thessalonians 5:23…he wrote...[emphasis mine]“Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.”

I take from Paul that there are “three” distinct “elements” if you will… spirit and soul and body…that require a “complete preservation”…this is very basic and simple to understand. If you disagree with this…and you believe that the human “spirit” and human “soul” are the same thing…no sense in reading any further…and I have no desire to argue with anyone about it…simply because the scripture cannot even convince you.

At the point of “salvation”…the Holy Spirit takes up residence in our “spirit” which is what Paul means in Romans 8:16 “The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God.” This is a “Spirit to spirit” indwelling in which the spirit of the human is saved….of course…the “Holy One” now abides.

Then you have the “soul” which is distinct from the “spirit” and it serves as the “seat” is how I will put it…of the “mind, will and emotions” and a reasonable effort in pursuing the Greek word “psuché” will reveal this.

Then there is the body…which houses the “spirit and the soul”…and is the physical temporal expression of what is happening in the “spirit and soul” of man…this really is basic understanding…however it is likely foreign to most.

The question few are willing or can even think to ask is…what is the condition of the human “soul” when the “Holy Spirit” first indwells [preserves/saves] the human spirit? Perhaps you have never heard of such a question? Well as they are “separate entities” each requiring a “complete preservation”…it is a pertinent question for the child of God and student of the bible to consider.

One must understand that…for the sum of one’s life…up to the point of “salvation”…the human soul is steeped in a “carnal, fleshly, worldly, and earthly” mindset…of course…it has spent its entire existence being “conformed to this world”…hence the need for salvation?

This gives light to verses like this…”He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son”…”do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind”…“I am again in labor until Christ is formed in you”…“do not be conformed to the former lusts which were yours in your ignorance” Rom 8:29, Rom 12:2, Gal 4:19, 1Pe 1:14 respectively.

These all denote a “transforming of the mind” from a “worldly mindset”…via a constant “conforming or forming” to the “image of Christ…mind of Christ …Kingdom of God…heavenly mindset.” And of course we all know who it is that is busy doing just that…the Holy Spirit living in our human spirit is the one actively working to bring us into “conformity to image of Christ”…ultimately “preserving the soul complete.”

Once the Holy Spirit “preserves” the human spirit by inhabiting it…He then begins the conversion of the “human soul” which is the process of maturing from being a child...who knows nothing about God...in the Kingdom of God to becoming a mature spiritual adult capable of presenting in themselves…the image and likeness of the Lord Yahshua Christ to the world around them.

Your right…I did not address the issue of demon possession here…I merely set up a foundation for the rest of the teaching…if that is even necessary.

Tatwo...:)

That was a good explanation. Thank you.