Trouble On Earth And Pitfalls To Avoid

[Sower]

1 hour ago, Michael37 said:

One pitfall of ministry in an ekklesia is overwork

              

You got that right. I have made an observation my years in the body gathered together to learn about Jesus. But first.
I was only a few months believer and was asked if I wanted to help on men's work days constructing a new small church in a rural area, as he, the pastor knew I was a carpenter doing construction work. 'Sure', and I showed up that Friday in the country amongst a  group of women under a tent making coffee and cooking breakfast/food and I thought just like the Amish. The men, about 20-30 were standing around the cement slab with the pastor as I drove up. I didn't know anybody but the pastor.

Got my tools and walked up and ask what he wanted me to do. He had a big roll of blue print drawings that he tossed to me and said; "Here, you tell us" (welcome to my new family:) 10 yrs old to 70+yr old new construction crew I inherited. In two weekends we had it dried in ready for roofers! (I was a slave driver) Having just moved our family to this new area in the country and starting my business I needed work $.

I was hired ($) to do the finish out and other work needed during the week, then ran the church crew on week ends. It was cool in that they prayed for someone to run the job and got one, our family prayed for me to get some paying  work and we were both blessed.

Our church receives new members, families mostly, and immediately they are exposed to many opportunities. Good things. New believers are enthusiastic and want to be involved, our family too. We learned more and were discipled till my wife began teaching and day care and AWANA's kid's club women's retreat etc etc. I was made building & grnds chairman, men's bible study, men's prayer breakfast, work day head, Sunday morning service and Sunday evening service, Monday night visitation, Wednesday night service, Saturday work day etc etc. I remember after years I used to wave at my wife and kids as they drove by the church headed to the zoo or some place and I should have been with them.  I now believe some mature christian should have warned me that my wife and family were my prior ministry and should meet their needs before over extending myself.

The church always needs help of  some kind and I was well aware of that being involved in it. What I notice though as I matured was we tend to over work new believers, give them too much responsibilities as young believers/young families. I worry the burn out when they get older and wiser and drift away. To me it is backwards.

The church leaders should be wise enough to minimize involvement till they mature in Christ, their kids in school, etc and in some way have caution when selecting volunteers for a program. Marriages can be strained, kids neglected,  if not careful. Then when the kids are gone, home established,  and there is more time to be more involved.

There is/should be an established line between quality and quantity time, and when its time. Again, the shepherd is wise to have mature men/women who are better  informed around him to advise him as to whom would be equal to the job without disrupting a family or marriage etc.

The kids are now all married and moved, and I have almost completed our first/last home build. If I could just get some help...

My mom used quote  'the idle mind is the devils workshop'  (If there working, doing, their mind is occupied:)

Thanks Michael..

 

[Michael37]

1 hour ago, Marston said:

I enjoy being in Christian group settings for the purpose of fellowship and helping others. I've heard people discussing doctrinal beliefs and I avoid those discussions because I've seen some get heated and divisive. 

Yes, it can be disappointing. When I was single I would get up early on a Saturday morning and cycle to Full Gospel Business Men's Fellowship prayer meetings in members' offices, at the bidding of men several decades older than me. Invariably the meetings would deteriorate into arguments about who, what, where, when and how to pray and who wasn't doing it right. Sometimes speakers at larger meetings would pursue possible spiritual meanings of bizarre things like someone getting a picture of an owl, or a number of crows in their mind. Not long after I got married I wrote a letter of resignation from the fellowship and have steered clear of it here ever since. 

[Dennis1209]

I have frequently heard, 10% of the congregation does 90% of the work and things that need done. That is my observation in my church anyway. This can be discouraging, leading to burn out and resentment.

I must consistently remind myself why I do what I do, and Who I do it for.

[missmuffet]

On 1/16/2025 at 2:01 PM, Michael37 said:

The Apostle Paul. Synonymous with Trouble. Synonymous also with Perseverance.

So much trouble, but not more than faith in God and belief in Jesus Christ can get us through. 

Paul didn't have a collection of Bibles complete with 66 books, cross-references and footnotes. He didn't have the internet with access to an abundance of images, news and information.   

Christian assemblies are typically made up of people who have, or have had, trouble on earth. I'm no exception. I'm braced to face trouble. A lot of my troubles have actually come as a result of my associations. James 1 speaks of "falling into various trials", 

περιπίπτω
peripiptō
per-ee-pip'-to
From G4012 and G4098; to fall into something that is all around, that is, light among or upon, be surrounded with: - fall among (into).
Total KJV occurrences: 3

Act 9:13-16  Then Ananias answered, "Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much harm he has done to Your saints in Jerusalem.  (14)  And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on Your name."  (15)  But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel.  (16)  For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name's sake."
Act 20:22-23  And see, now I go bound in the spirit to Jerusalem, not knowing the things that will happen to me there,  (23)  except that the Holy Spirit testifies in every city, saying that chains and tribulations await me.
2Co 12:7  And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure.
 

• John 16:33 (NKJV): "These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world."

• Psalm 34:19 (NKJV): "Many are the afflictions of the righteous, but the Lord delivers him out of them all."

• Romans 8:18 (NKJV): "For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us."

• James 1:2-4 (NKJV): "My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience. But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing."

• 2 Corinthians 4:8-9 (NKJV): "We are hard-pressed on every side, yet not crushed; we are perplexed, but not in despair; persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed."

• Psalm 46:1 (NKJV): "God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble."

Does anyone else beside me make a concerted effort to avoid known pitfalls in Christian assemblies? 

Just the other day I mentioned someone we spoke to in passing as "looking for an argument" and someone to be wary of. 

It is all about Christian discernment.

[Sower]

8 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

This can be discouraging, leading to burn out and resentment.

I understand Dennis. If more people showed up on work day, we could all go home to our families sooner.
My old pastor told me once, when he needs someone to do a project, he doesn't ask someone uninvolved with a lot of time. He said he goes to those who are already very busy if he expected any results. I thought on that and realised the wisdom.
The Bema seat coming up will judge our motives for our work, the wood hay stubble/silver gold precious stones.

I now (try to) consider my motives more and acknowledge God when taking on a work. If it is for his glory then it doesn't matter if no one else shows up, it'l just be me and my Lord...

Thanks Dennis..

 

 

 

[enoob57]

Matthew 25:40 (KJV)

[40] And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

 

[TheBlade]

On 1/17/2025 at 12:17 PM, Michael37 said:

Firstly, I love the assembling of the saints together.

Secondly, Christian congregations and communities come with pitfalls to avoid, as per the letters to the seven ekklesias in Revelation, and various other things warned of in Scripture. 

• Hypocrisy: Jesus often rebuked the Pharisees for their hypocrisy, emphasizing the importance of genuine faith and integrity (Matthew 23).

• Division: The apostle Paul wrote extensively about unity within the church, urging believers to avoid divisions and strive for harmony (1 Corinthians 1:10).

• Judgment: Jesus taught about the dangers of judgmental attitudes, encouraging believers to focus on their own shortcomings rather than condemning others (Matthew 7:1-5).

• False Teaching: The NT warns against false prophets and teachers who distort the gospel message (2 Peter 2). Believers are encouraged to discern and adhere to sound doctrine.

• Favoritism: James admonishes against showing partiality or favoritism within the community, advocating for equal treatment of all members (James 2:1-9).

• Gossip and Slander: Paul advises believers to avoid harmful speech that can damage relationships and unity within the church (Ephesians 4:29-32).

• Neglecting Love: Paul emphasizes that love should be the foundation of all Christian actions, without which, other deeds are meaningless (1 Corinthians 13).

• Neglecting Personal Spiritual Growth: The NT encourages believers to grow in their faith and knowledge of Christ, avoiding complacency in their spiritual journey (2 Peter 3:18).

Forgiveness is paramount in any congregation or community.

This list reminded me of when Billy Graham was on Johnny Carson show talking about the 10 commandments saying (something he believed) we all have broken every commandment at one time or other.

I'd have to say no I don't "make a concerted effort to avoid".  For me what I have always wanted from day one .. I read about Him.. think about Him.. dwell on Him, meditate on Him and .. I want that compassion. You said it "anyone else besides me". Well haha I can't be the only one where God puts this person in your life and you say to God.. A GOD? I don't think you truly know this person.. yet so many times its not me helping them.. but they are helping me. He does not focus on the sin the faults so forth. 

As you know many of those verses there is more to them.. context. I will say we always need to be renewing our mind. I have to always be praying and praying in the spirit. Its 24/7.. the enemy never sleeps