And then, there were Three:

[AdHoc]

1 hour ago, Dennis1209 said:

Let's switch gears, do a 360° turn (as opposed to a military about-face, LOL), and approach this subject from a perspective that makes more sense.

Would we agree that the Bible contains many patterns, shadows, and typologies? Enoch, Elijah, Noah, the Ark of the Covenant, the Temple and Tabernacle, heaven on earth, etc.? What about Jewish traditions as types and shadows, namely, 2nd Temple period Jewish wedding customs, law, and procedures? I find it helpful to shed my Western and modern thinking by studying scripture.

The condensed version: Either a marriage was prearranged between families, or a suiter would come and ask her father for her hand in marriage; either way, this was the formality, pattern, and tradition.

The potential bride would already have her dowry in store (here, I will substitute crowns and works for the kingdom of heaven). If it was acceptable to the bride's father, the marriage was negotiated and agreed upon with the purchase price for the bride, an earnest payment of betrothal (here, I see the cross and Holy Spirit as the down payment). At this point, it was legal, a legally binding contract between the two; they were looked upon as legally married. Starting to sound familiar?

The future bride was expected to remain devoted and faithful until the wedding and patiently await the time of his unknown return. Generally, the young man did not have his inheritance and was not on his own yet, and he still lived with his father in his estate. He leaves his betrothed and returns to his father's house to add an addition to his father's house (the New Jerusalem) for himself and his betrothed.

When the father was satisfied everything was ready and in order, he told his son to fetch (redeem) his bride and bring her back here. He does not telephone, text, or email ahead, alerting her of his impending (imminent) arrival. Not until those posted and watching for his arrival (five wise virgins) see him approaching the bride is alerted, and the bridesmaids (helpers-attendants) escort him into the bride's chambers and attend the wedding and feast.

Every detail of this custom and tradition matches and mirrors the marriage of the Lamb. I am missing the part where the bride is abused, too immature, requires further growth, domestic violence, beaten with stripes, earns her place as a bride through tribulation, or cast into outer darkness.

The question is, are these laws, customs, and traditions representative of the church's harpazo? I suspect so.

cc: @Marilyn C

Lol - I think an about face is 180°. 360° is a full turn back to the original heading. I'm thinking that you did that on purpose to check my military time.

I am glad this posting started with a laugh because you can't see the friendly look on my face as I answer. It sounds hard, but I just don't know how to say it otherwise. I don't interpret the Bible by Jewish tradition. The Lord said that by their traditions they have made the Word of God of none effect (Matt.15:6). And then He said that they were the blind leading the blind. The Biblical marriage is shown by Isaac. His Fathers sends the Holy Spirit away from the cursed people (the Canaanite) and takes one of the same birth (born again). Rebeccah is veiled and thus displays her head. Issac meets her and takes her into his Tent. There he makes love and the marriage is complete.

[Marilyn C]

6 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

Let's switch gears, do a 360° turn (as opposed to a military about-face, LOL), and approach this subject from a perspective that makes more sense.

Would we agree that the Bible contains many patterns, shadows, and typologies? Enoch, Elijah, Noah, the Ark of the Covenant, the Temple and Tabernacle, heaven on earth, etc.? What about Jewish traditions as types and shadows, namely, 2nd Temple period Jewish wedding customs, law, and procedures? I find it helpful to shed my Western and modern thinking by studying scripture.

The condensed version: Either a marriage was prearranged between families, or a suiter would come and ask her father for her hand in marriage; either way, this was the formality, pattern, and tradition.

The potential bride would already have her dowry in store (here, I will substitute crowns and works for the kingdom of heaven). If it was acceptable to the bride's father, the marriage was negotiated and agreed upon with the purchase price for the bride, an earnest payment of betrothal (here, I see the cross and Holy Spirit as the down payment). At this point, it was legal, a legally binding contract between the two; they were looked upon as legally married. Starting to sound familiar?

The future bride was expected to remain devoted and faithful until the wedding and patiently await the time of his unknown return. Generally, the young man did not have his inheritance and was not on his own yet, and he still lived with his father in his estate. He leaves his betrothed and returns to his father's house to add an addition to his father's house (the New Jerusalem) for himself and his betrothed.

When the father was satisfied everything was ready and in order, he told his son to fetch (redeem) his bride and bring her back here. He does not telephone, text, or email ahead, alerting her of his impending (imminent) arrival. Not until those posted and watching for his arrival (five wise virgins) see him approaching the bride is alerted, and the bridesmaids (helpers-attendants) escort him into the bride's chambers and attend the wedding and feast.

Every detail of this custom and tradition matches and mirrors the marriage of the Lamb. I am missing the part where the bride is abused, too immature, requires further growth, domestic violence, beaten with stripes, earns her place as a bride through tribulation, or cast into outer darkness.

The question is, are these laws, customs, and traditions representative of the church's harpazo? I suspect so.

cc: @Marilyn C

Hi Dennis,

I too see God`s Festivals etc as for Israel and thus we are not in their fulfillment. eg. Israel`s National Day of Celebration of deliverance from its enemies is Adar 15. (see Esther 9: 18 - 21) That final deliverance will be fulfilled when the Lord delivers them from the world`s armies at Armageddon. Count back from there (7 plus years) and we get to March 12 (if this year) as the Peace treaty.

Thus, the Russian war against Israel will be before that. And as we are not in the Day of the LORD (God Almighty in judgment) we will be caught away before that. Joel 2 reveals the beginning of the Day of the LORD will start when the Russian (northern) planes sweep over Israel (Golan Heights - no walls) and Israel will be dwelling safely, (they are now in a cease fire). 

We are in definite COUNTDOWN. 

The Lord will reveal Himself to Israel at the end of the trib. and connect again with them. THAT is the `marriage supper,` for Israel is the bride (symbol) as written throughout God`s word. 

Marilyn.

[Dennis1209]

21 hours ago, AdHoc said:

Cc @Dennis1209

We mostly disagree so I'm joyous to go with this one. In Romans 8:28-29 we see God acting with "foreknowledge" and once the foreknowledge had done its work, those few are "predestined". These three were TAKEN as companions ON HIGH - the same word in Matthew 24 when two are in the field ONE is TAKEN (as a friend). But immediately a difficulty arises. This event is not to show the Kingdom! In Matthew 19:28 ALL TWELVE are to e in the Kingdom, so the Kingdom is not at the forefront.

If you cover the Chapter and verse markings, the context starts in 16:24 - the losing of your soul-life. Then, the presence of Elijah and Moses must be included. When will an identical event take place? I believe - The Rapture.
We have Jesus changing into to His glory
We have Elijah who was still alive - speaking for those alive at the time our Lord comes
We have Moses who speaks for two things. The resurrected saints and the chastised saints
We have a high mountain showing the saints "caught UP" and a heavenly revelation
We have it AFTER six days - 6 x 1,000 year days since Adam
We have THREE Taken Up - three, those who lived by Christ's resurrection life (Rom.8:1) - Overcomers
We have the rest staying in the valley, defeated in faith

We have a clear picture of the rapture by harvest style where the ripe are taken up while the rest must face the Beast.

Hello AdHoc,

In my limited knowledge, I agree omniscience knows every possible choice of free will, as with the example of David in 1 Sam. 23:1-5. In that sense, we could call it predestination, but we or they still made the free will choice and decision; it is still on us.

It appears we interpret Matt. 24:40-42 different, and it is not a Rapture verse. Who was taken in the days of Noah by the flood, and who were left, eight?

Matthew 24:38-41 (KJV) For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, ³⁹ And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. ⁴⁰ Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. ⁴¹ Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. [Emphasis mine]

I interpret the above as those who will perish (the grim reaper harvest, sheep vs. goats) and not enter the millennial reign of Christ. Destination, the Great White Throne judgment.

I do not see chastisement or punishment at the Bema Seat of Christ. All the saints will give an account of their lives. I suspect that will include all the opportunities given to us that we squandered away or said no, as well as the things we did (good and bad) after Salvation. It is not judgment, punishment, or a purgatory for further maturity until we are ripe. Loss of, or gain of rewards by fire. Once again, this is not to say I hold the correct view, but it is the one I believe in. Interesting discussions; thank you for your input; discussing our views is always a pleasure. 

cc: @Marilyn C

[Dennis1209]

1 hour ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Dennis,

I too see God`s Festivals etc as for Israel and thus we are not in their fulfillment. eg. Israel`s National Day of Celebration of deliverance from its enemies is Adar 15. (see Esther 9: 18 - 21) That final deliverance will be fulfilled when the Lord delivers them from the world`s armies at Armageddon. Count back from there (7 plus years) and we get to March 12 (if this year) as the Peace treaty.

Thus, the Russian war against Israel will be before that. And as we are not in the Day of the LORD (God Almighty in judgment) we will be caught away before that. Joel 2 reveals the beginning of the Day of the LORD will start when the Russian (northern) planes sweep over Israel (Golan Heights - no walls) and Israel will be dwelling safely, (they are now in a cease fire). 

We are in definite COUNTDOWN. 

The Lord will reveal Himself to Israel at the end of the trib. and connect again with them. THAT is the `marriage supper,` for Israel is the bride (symbol) as written throughout God`s word. 

Marilyn.

There is no doubt in my pea-picking mind we are at the tail end of life as we know it. I firmly believe the hourglass was turned over on May 14, 1948.

You mentioned something very interesting and applicable: Israel’s feasts and observances. The ones that have been fulfilled and the remaining ones to be fulfilled shortly are much too long to address here and deserve its own thread (hint, hint).

As for the timing of the Gog-Magog invasion, I am not dogmatic, but for several Biblical reasons, I suspect the invasion occurs pretribulation. I also suspect the destruction of Damascus, Syria, and Elam precedes and sets up the invasion. But it is a guess on my part.

These cease-fires and negotiations are nothing more than for the terrorist organizations to rearm, resupply, and strategize. I suspect it will not be long before the IDF goes after the head of the snake, disabling Iran’s nuclear program in Elam (S.W. Iran).

At any rate, it is all coming together faster than anyone watching can keep up with. Only a few decades ago, there was not much to prophetically report on, sort of a lull.  

Interesting and exciting times, Marilyn.

[Marilyn C]

1 hour ago, Dennis1209 said:

There is no doubt in my pea-picking mind we are at the tail end of life as we know it. I firmly believe the hourglass was turned over on May 14, 1948.

You mentioned something very interesting and applicable: Israel’s feasts and observances. The ones that have been fulfilled and the remaining ones to be fulfilled shortly are much too long to address here and deserve its own thread (hint, hint).

As for the timing of the Gog-Magog invasion, I am not dogmatic, but for several Biblical reasons, I suspect the invasion occurs pretribulation. I also suspect the destruction of Damascus, Syria, and Elam precedes and sets up the invasion. But it is a guess on my part.

These cease-fires and negotiations are nothing more than for the terrorist organizations to rearm, resupply, and strategize. I suspect it will not be long before the IDF goes after the head of the snake, disabling Iran’s nuclear program in Elam (S.W. Iran).

At any rate, it is all coming together faster than anyone watching can keep up with. Only a few decades ago, there was not much to prophetically report on, sort of a lull.  

Interesting and exciting times, Marilyn.

Great to talk with you on such important topics. It seems we are moving away from your original subject and would be good for its own thread, (among the thousands of similar, ha, ha) Anyway will look into it as to what has to be fulfilled. I did do a blog with those in it so will look them up and get back to you.

I so agree about the rearm etc. Now did you know that Iran and Russia have just sign an agreement to help each other with military, economic etc. So when trump sots out the Ukraine Russian war then I believe God will bring him and Itan etc down to the Golan Heights. 

[Dennis1209]

13 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Great to talk with you on such important topics. It seems we are moving away from your original subject and would be good for its own thread, (among the thousands of similar, ha, ha) Anyway will look into it as to what has to be fulfilled. I did do a blog with those in it so will look them up and get back to you.

I so agree about the rearm etc. Now did you know that Iran and Russia have just sign an agreement to help each other with military, economic etc. So when trump sots out the Ukraine Russian war then I believe God will bring him and Itan etc down to the Golan Heights. 

I, too, have notes on Israel’s feasts somewhere. The problem is, I do not remember what I titled it, and I will have to do some serious searching. I remember there was a good thread on it a long time ago.

As hard as I try, I find it impossible to stay strictly on topic. Roy Rogers was the king of the Cowboys. If I am a king of anything, it is king of going off topic. Every topic has a minefield of irresistible rabbit holes, LOL.

I’d have to find my detailed notes again regarding Russian and Iranian pacts and alliances. I am so organized. I do recall it was not the US. Liberal opinion shaping media, but possibly BBC News or independent intelligence agency reports. Now I gots me two things to find, keeping me occupied for the rest of the day, thanks. 

[BornAgain490]

Just as God chose the prophets of Old for His sovereign purposes, God chose the Twelve and Paul for His sovereign purposes. 

From the prophets we have the Tanakh that reveals many things concerning the unveiling of God's plan of redemption; from the four Gospels and the other NT writings we have the complete revelation of God's plan of redemption. 

The Peace of Christ be with you. 

[Dennis1209]

14 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Great to talk with you on such important topics. It seems we are moving away from your original subject and would be good for its own thread, (among the thousands of similar, ha, ha) Anyway will look into it as to what has to be fulfilled. I did do a blog with those in it so will look them up and get back to you.

I so agree about the rearm etc. Now did you know that Iran and Russia have just sign an agreement to help each other with military, economic etc. So when trump sots out the Ukraine Russian war then I believe God will bring him and Itan etc down to the Golan Heights. 

Well, I will not need a haircut for a while. Pulling my hair out trying to find those notes, I ran across this and thought you might be interested:

1. 1948 Israel will be reestablished as a nation Isa. 11:11, Isa. 66:8

2. British ships will be the first to bring the Jewish people home Isa. 60:9

3. Israel will return as one nation, not two Hosea 1:11; Ezek. 37:18,19,22

4. The nation of Israel will be born in one day Isa. 66:8

5. Israel will be re-established by a leader named David Hosea 3:5

6. The revived state will be named “Israel” Ezek. 37:11

7. The Star of David will be on the Israeli flag Isa. 11:10 (May 14, 1948)

8. The nation will be reestablished in the ancient land of Canaan Jer. 30:2,3; Ezek. 37:12

9. Israel will no longer speak of being freed from Egypt Jer. 16:14,15

10. Israel will not be restored as a monarchy Mic. 5:5 (1948)

11. Israel will be established on the date predicted Dan 4; Ezek. 4:4-6

12. The Hebrew language will be revived in Israel Jer. 31:23 (1948)

13. Jerusalem will be divided Zech. 14:1-3 (until 1967 Six-Days War)

14. Jordan will occupy the West Bank Zeph. 2:8; Zech. 12:1-7

15. Israel will be initially restored without Jerusalem Zech. 12:1-7 (until 1967 Six-Days War)

16. Israel will have a fierce military (firepot) Zech. 12:1-7; Isa. 41 (Not the case in the 1948 War of Independence)

17. Dead Sea Scrolls will be found Isa. 29:1-4 (1946-47)

18. Israel will be reestablished by the fourth craftsman Zech 1:18-21

19. The Jewish people will come back in unbelief  Ezek. 37:7-8,11 (And still)

20. First shepherd will arise Mic. 5:5-8 (1949)

21. Yemenite Jews will return Isa. 43:3-7 (1951)

22. Israel will control Ashkelon Zech. 9:1-8 (1953)

23. Egypt will no longer have kings (Suez crises) Zech. 10:9-11 (1967)

24. Second shepherd will arise Mic. 5:5-8

25. The 1967 war will occur on the date predicted Dan. 5

26. Five Egyptian cities will be conquered by the Israelis Isa. 19:16-18

27. Jordan will give up the West Bank Zech. 12:6 (3 April 1949)

28. West Bank Jews will go home to Jerusalem Zech. 12:6 (1968)

29. Israel will control Ashdod Zech. 9:1-8 1973

30. Yom Kippur War will occur Mic. 5:5-8 (October 1973)

31. Jerusalem will be a burden to all nations Zech. 12:2,3 (1948 - present)

32. The shekel will be revived as Israeli currency Ezek. 45:1,2 (1981)

33. Third shepherd will arise Mic. 5:5-8

34. Israel will attack (Elam) Iraqi (Nuclear) facility Mic. 5:5-8 (Coming shortly)

35. Israel will give back the Sinai Peninsula Zech. 10:6 (1979)

36. First Lebanese war will occur (firepot) Zech. 12:6 (1989)

37. The Berlin Wall will fall Ezek. 38:4-6 (1990 - questionable)

38. Ethiopian Jews will be brought to Israel Isa. 18:1-7 (May 24, 1991)

39. ~2000 Cities will be restored, and Israel will have non-Jewish farmers Isa. 61:4,5; Zeph. 2

40. Jerusalem will grow beyond its old walls Zech. 2:4,5

41. Land of Israel will be divided by its rivers and by Muslims Isa. 18:1-7

42. Tourists will fly in and support Israel Isa. 60:8-10; Isa. 61

43. There will be constant planting and reaping (crops) Amos 9:13-15 (Best vegetables and fruits in the world)

44. Forests will reappear in Israel (cedar, etc) Isa. 41:18-20 (c.f. Mark Twain’s observations)

45. Desolate land and cities will be restored Ezek. 36:33-36

46. Five cities will stay desolate Matt. 11:20-24

47. Muslims will not “reckon Israel among nations” Num. 23:9

48. Israel will inherit remnant of Edom /Palestinians  Amos 9:12

49. Satellite-television communication systems invented Rev. 17:8

50. 2004 Sanhedrin will be reestablished Matt. 24:15,20

51. 2005 Palestinians will want Jerusalem as their capital Ezek. 36:2,7,10-11

52. Gaza will be forsaken Zeph. 2:4

53. Russia and Iran will sign a military defense pact Ezek. 38:3-8

54. 2006 Second Lebanese war will occur Psalm 83:1-18

The fifteen prophecies scheduled to occur after 2008 are given below.

Date Prophecy References 2008+

1. An independent state will be created out of the West Bank Dan. 11:45

2. Fourth shepherd’s Syrian war will occur Mic. 5:1-8

3. Fifth shepherd’s Syrian war will occur Mic. 5:1-8

4. Lebanon-Jordan war will occur Zech. 10-11;

5. Sephardic Jews will return to Israel, & populate the Negev Obad. 1:20

6. Sixth Shepherd’s Syrian war will occur Mic. 5:1-8

7. Damascus will be destroyed Isa. 17:1

8. Gog-Magog war will occur immediately after Israel wins another war Ezek. 38

9. Rise of the ten nations occurs after the Gog-Magog war Dan. 8,11

10. Increased understanding of prophecies will occur Dan. 12:4

11. Children will be rebellious, and society will be materialistic Mark 13:12

12. 1 Tim. 3:23 Jesus’ words will never be forgotten Mat. 24:15

13. Christians will be hated for Jesus’ name’s sake Luke 21:17

14. The apostasy of the church will fully form 

15. The Rapture of the believing church will occur The seven-year tribulation will begin

Johnson, Ken. The Rapture (p. 130). Biblefacts.org. Kindle Edition. 

[Dennis1209]

2 hours ago, BornAgain490 said:

Just as God chose the prophets of Old for His sovereign purposes, God chose the Twelve and Paul for His sovereign purposes. 

From the prophets we have the Tanakh that reveals many things concerning the unveiling of God's plan of redemption; from the four Gospels and the other NT writings we have the complete revelation of God's plan of redemption. 

The Peace of Christ be with you. 

There is no debate or argument here. I pointed out that Israel’s appointed Feasts-Festivals are also part of God’s prophetic plan and time clock. The first four of the seven were completed by Christ, and there are three remaining. I lost my notes, so I am starting from scratch again. There are prophetic implications and timing with the feasts.

[BornAgain490]

3 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

There is no debate or argument here. I pointed out that Israel’s appointed Feasts-Festivals are also part of God’s prophetic plan and time clock. The first four of the seven were completed by Christ, and there are three remaining. I lost my notes, so I am starting from scratch again. There are prophetic implications and timing with the feasts.

Perhaps. In any event, we are in Christ, therefore we will tabernacle with Him forever. Amen